i don't go to strip clubs. Just doesn't do it for me. Still, I don't judge people of any sex that do.

I've known strippers. Nice women, kind to their animals. Useful citizens.

The stigma of their jobs is really sad. They perform a useful service, giving lonely men a short escape.

They're no different than any performer; singer, actor, stripper, all take us out of ourselves for a bit.



Thanks for posting this, Blue_Adept.

Which is good, rather than just this one view and that's it. I tries to be understanding and look into the motivations of others.

I did like the analysis of the "sour-grape" response, the tendency to vilify by some patrons. That hasn't received treatment in popular literature to any great extent.

It's a well-rounded "article" and the vehicle of the cartoon genre is pretty unique in this context.

Someone will come by soon to piss all over this with self-righteous judgment.

Fricken' legalize it, regulate it, and tax it.

As long as it is truly a choice.

But I like that this one adds a couple of shades of nuance we don't always get.

Interesting.

(Less than) Interesting.

So should you.

I mean, it's pretty obvious to me that "shtrippers" is a slurred drunken version of "strippers" but if I squint real hard and tilt my head just so I can see how somebody who's really looking to be outraged could parse it as a "Jewish"/Yiddish-accented version.

Much like alcohol or tobacco, the sex trade probably delivers more misery than happiness on balance. But I don't think that we feasibly prohibit it.

We didn't give up on prohibition of alcohol because alcohol was harmless. We gave up on it because there was no longer any social consensus behind banning it and prohibition was not feasible. I presume the same thing applies to the sex trade.

ETA - I have to say that the comparison to therapy is a very valid one. Personally I never cared for it much as it seemed to me very reminiscent of paid sex.

But here's my problem with the comparisons. I know I'm opening myself up to prude, prude, prude, but I hope at least some will hear me out. The author of the comic is leaving out an awful lot in the attempt to compare. For one thing, the other industries she mentions are generally equally comprised of both men and women and have far less stigma attached to them. The power has not flipped. The exchange of money does not change the fact that the power dynamic is exactly the same. It's just a commodity now. One could argue that getting rid of the stigma would change that. I agree, but I dont' think that can happen as long as the industry operates as it does now. That stigma exists because of the deeply ingrained sexism and misogyny in our culture. Sex work basically gives itself its own stigma. We get rid of sexism and misogyny, we could have the sex work as neutral industry just like any other. It probably would exist and would look nothing like the exploitive industry as it exists today.

the essential task of capitalism is to make transactions of what used to be activities of daily life. We humans used to spend our time hunting and gathering food, but I can honestly say that I have never hunted or gathered in my life, we have professionals and machines to do all that for us. If capitalism can make a transaction out of anything, it is probably going to make a transaction out of sex.

Virtually all sexual relationships are transactional in some way. The old adage that marriage is a form of prostitution is not so wide of the mark. Perhaps the stigma of sex work comes not from leveraging one's sexual capital in itself, but by setting the bar too low - essentially making oneself available for casual employment as opposed to taking only a full-time job. To a high-priced call girl, a woman willing to sell sex relatively cheaply is potentially a slut.

I suppose if the stigma of sex work were to vanish and all women felt perfectly free to sell sex on demand (and men were perfectly free to purchase it), then this would have some effect on the male demand for marriage, with men perhaps being less inclined to consider that option. For women whose station in life depends on securing the best marriage outcome possible, sex work represents a flooding of the market. I suppose it is only natural that some women would tend to disparage the paid product as cheap and inferior, to to speak, and to try and maintain the stigma attaching to sex work as much as possible.

Your comparisons have to ignore so much in order for them to work. And you have to draw from a large pool of misogyny to make them, especially that last paragraph. Holy cow. To make the comparison between a transaction in sex work and marriage, you have to ignore the whole relationship part of marriage which is like comparing a car to a rubber ball because hey, cars have tires and tires are made of rubber so cars = rubber balls.

It's possible with the low entry requirements that it would be like a fast food worker job with similar pay and benefits. Clearly some of the reason that people do sex work now is due to decent money earned quickly - not sure how appealing the line of work would be without the pay.

"For women whose station in life depends on securing the best marriage outcome possible" - this statement of yours, I don't know what it means.

But further down, are you saying men don't want love and relationships and family?

It is a bit disingenuous for sex workers to complain about the stigma but delight in the monetary rewards - the two go hand in hand. I think the returns would tank if the stigma surrounding the job disappeared, but still I imagine there would be reasonable opportunities at the high end of the market. It seems to me a job that could be done either quite poorly or quite well. There would probably still be a risk premium as well, at least in relation to disease if not violence.

I am not sure where social stigma ends and biology begins. Even without the stigma it seems to me that female sex has a commodity value whereas male sex does not. And jobs involving physical proximity - such as waxing or massage - tend to attract a premium even though there is no stigma or sex involved. Perhaps there is some innate squeamishness associated with physical contact that would nevertheless keep a floor on the price.

Prostitution, or something like it, has been observed in chimps. Subdominant males can trade meat for sex, although it's not quite prostitution as its a bit more of a long term thing - the male chimp will continue providing meat after the act is over, in anticipation that the female will be receptive again when she is next fertile. I'm not sure if that resembles prostitution, or marriage or maybe something in between, enjo kosai or friends with benefits perhaps. But even so, it's the male that pays the female for sex and not the other way around.

I knew a girl that was a colonic hydrotherapist. Apparently that involved sticking a hose up old peoples arses and flushing the shit out of them. She was tempted to become an erotic masseuse because it paid better and it couldn't be as gross as having to deal with old peoples shit. When you look at it that way, it becomes a value proposition.

"For women whose station in life depends on securing the best marriage outcome possible, sex work represents a flooding of the market. I suppose it is only natural that some women would tend to disparage the paid product as cheap and inferior, to to speak, and to try and maintain the stigma attaching to sex work as much as possible."

If a consenting adult decides they want to sell their body (have sex or similar) with another consenting adult who agrees upon a mutual monetary sum, then why should that be illegal? If it is regulated then the disease part can even be more controlled.

I don't go to strip clubs (anymore), I've never been with a prostitute. But if people desire to do that I don't have a problem with it.

the men walking out the club. the ugliness how they verbalized view of women. that empowers none of us women. this is how woman, as a whole is hurt by this industry. (this is only one part of the issue). this filters how these men look at me, you and others. we have not done a damn thing, but exist and they throw this filth at us repeatedly. some that like to pretend they are on our side, will do it with a laugh.... and tell us to lighten up.

then i step into the part of the conversation of reversing male gaze. now... it may be the men truly see who they are and what they are doing and the guilt and shame of doing, what they clearly see. how they are trashing all of who a woman is in such an ugly way. feeds.

but, there is an element of this. why they have to humiliate and degrade, and filthiphy a woman to such an extent. so they have an excuse to talk to women this way.

now.... step into the part of the conversation where the stripper is discussing her individual empowerment. for some, not for a hell of a lot of others, and ya. ok.

and look at all it creates for all of us, outside YOUR world.

a right to do it. damn straight. fug... a right to enjoy, interpret as you choose? damn right.

and yet....

*i do not know if i will read the rest. playing today. fun. this isnt fun. but, it is interesting and i may like to see what else is being fed to us*

i may not even edit, so may be really messing. leave me alone. i want to play... i say

I recall a couple of DUers imagine I was bitter or something because I didn't "get enough attention". Idiots think you should be honored or grateful for every single person who thinks you;re attractive. Nope. Not giving shit can bring out their ugly. Oh boy, does it ever.

She used to be a PSO. You know those phone lines you can call where some woman talks dirty to you for a buck a minute? She was one of the people at the end of the phone line. She did this for several years and I had zero problem with it (although I had to stop being in the same room as I'd often have to fight laughter). The only reason she doesn't do it anymore is because my mental health issues make me paranoid of phones (I can't explain it so please, don't ask).

I find that at least some of the stigma to sex work comes from women who consider themselves feminist. They say they wish to empower women but if a woman chooses to express their sexuality in a particular way or chooses to make money off it, that's suddenly not allowed and/or should be banned. They don't want to empower sex workers, just get rid of sex work entirely. It's like there's only a small box marked "empowered woman" and if a woman doesn't fit into that, she gets shamed to hell. In a way, they've internalised one significant part of patriarchy: The shame nature of female sexuality. A woman who chooses to commodify their sexuality or gets off on being watched are shamed as disempowering to women. It's one of the few times blaming the victim is considered acceptable, even by liberals. A stripper gets called names? Well, it's their fault for being a stripper.

She said she dealt with more weirdos and creepy comments on the psychic line.

She has a really husky voice that sounds perfect for phone sex, she sounds like an old Hollywood movie star. I'm sure people on the other end of the line would have been very disappointed if they knew they were fantasizing about a five foot tall obese grandmother.

My partner is short, more than a little overweight and she spent most of the calls playing online Scrabble. But she has a good voice and a good imagination so that was enough. Only got a few creep calls. She loved getting teh stoners best because they never stayed on the topic of sex. One time, she ended up chatting about sci-fi for three hours to a guy, at a pound a minute.