Nothing can stop this now.

Every house with the ability to make any drug they want. In 20 years, its going to be impossible to stop everyone from pretty much making anything they want.

who knows his bitcoins are used to sell kiddie porn..his response "Liberty is a dangerous thing."

Cash and the internet.

I used bitcoin to buy a nice steak dinner down the street just the other day. Last week I bought some coffee and a bagel at yet another place.

It's like blaming the internet for child porn instead of the abusers themselves. Learn to start blaming people instead of inanimate things.

I wonder who's buying them.

the gun madness with laws like Australia enacted in 1996.

Apparently, Jerry Brown has no problem with it. Why do you?


http://gov.ca.gov/docs/SB_808_Veto_Message.pdf

The gun nuts, trying to build gunz at home, are likely members of the Bundy Militia, compound dwellers, right wing racists, domestic terrorists, or worse.

I see no reason to make their use of gunz for intimidation easier for them. Apparently, you guys think it's cool.

Aside from reposting pictures and issuing diktats about what is or isn't good
for society, that is?

I'll take the word of a long-serving Democratic governor over that of some self-appointed
improver

I swear, gun control advocates are right next to the people who put "Coexist" bumperstickers
on their cars, or retweet #BringBackOurGirls in the front ranks of "those who do little or
nothing while thinking they're actually achieving something"

So what's your point? As for "agreeing with Republicans", I'll just leave this here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/us/koch-brother-wages-12-year-fight-over-wind-farm.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

A reasoned approach. You used no name calling, you never lowered yourself to the other opinion's stereotypical tomfoolery.

I get so tired of the gun shaming around here.

Always the talk of 'gun nuts'.

Very well played.

So I ask you: What are you doing against the insanity of our gun culture?

..whether they be of the Bloombergian sort or the LaPierre-Nugent faction on the other.

If someone has a proposal I am open to hearing it. Only fools and blowhards
think they know all they need to know about a subject.

Do not expect, however, my automatic agreement that what they want is either 'reasonable' and/or 'commonsense-
if you want an automatic 'amen', go to the temple/church/mosque/synagogue/magick circle of your choice, since you won't be hearing it from me

I try to post factual information that I have researched to the best of my ability
(as see my post #43 upthread).

If Shannon Watts,Ted Nugent, or some self-important DUer says something
stupid, hateful or dishonest- rest assured, they'll be called on it...

That was tour reply to Hoyt. And, based on your own words in replying to me, you're not doing one thing more than him! Look, I totally support online advocacy, but it's rather ridiculous to call out someone for failure to take tangible action when you aren't taking such action yourself!

While you're busy doing that, you should know that IRL I called and emailed my legislators and urged them to vote for this:

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/1172150454

Compromise Massachusetts gun bill heads to Legislature with tentative agreement on both sides

http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/07/compromise_massachusetts_gun_b.html

That's what I've been doing, among other things

I liked most of it, and the parts I didn't like are un-Constitutional will be tossed after
a court challenge

If you actually need an explanation of how this country's views on guns are not just insane but, in the words of Stephen King, "crazy as a shithouse rat," then there's nothing I can do to help you.

...School Board are (albeit from a different point on the political spectrum).

Get past the surface details, and all 'improvers' are alike. It's as true now as it
was in 1951 when Eric Hoffer pointed it out in "The True Believer"...

This group allows all viewpoints even if you do not agree with them. The other one not so much as they require a "safe haven" to protect them. At least you are welcome here and so far you have not sunk to the level of name calling and penis jokes like so many others. If you read other posts in this group you will find a lot of us are for common sense laws that would actually help with firearms violence. We are also for training on the use of firearms to help prevent negligent discharges as accidents do not happen without some degree of negligence. We also hope to educate some on firearms and terminology as some basic understanding of firearms helps in the process of talking and writing the congress critters for legislation.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

would you allow the right to give that argument against things they dont like?

You have any evidence to back up your statements? Real evidence with reputable links?

reside. I'm betting gun shows, gun stores, those who promote gunz , etc., there aren't very diverse.

and guess what? They're all of the same political stripe as I am, solid progressive/liberal.
When we do attend firearms shows, it's usually a pretty good mix of AA, Asian, Caucasian, Hispanic.
But enough of me, can you post any evidence with reputable links that it's mostly RW racists arming up?

look at gun groups, mostly racists. Go to any gun show, mostly right wing racists. Look at gun stores, mostly right wing racists. Look at those who promote gunz, mostly right wing racists. Look at TParty members, mostly right wing racists. Look at militia groups, mostly right wing racists. Look at armed Border Klan, mostly right wing racists.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Lots of stuff in politics don't have concrete evidence, but are pretty clear.

I don't need a study sponsored by the NRA, or other right wing lobbying groups, to convince me otherwise.

I will bet my life savings you don't go to gun shows.

That said, of all the people I know who own guns (I don't own any), NONE fit any category you laid out.

Really? Just how can you tell that?

M Moore: “We’ve got over a quarter-billion guns in people’s homes. And they’re mostly in the suburbs and rural areas where there is virtually no crime and no murder. So why is that? What are they really afraid of? What do they think of — who’s going to break into the house?” I agree with him.

When you go to a gun show like in your photo and see attendees drooling over the table with AR15s and confederate flags, you can be pretty sure.


Besides there are studies like the following, of course gunners can't really believe it.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/6/study-suggests-link-between-gun-ownership-racism/?page=all

If I go to a rap concert and it's mostly African-American's does that make them "racists" simply for being there? I think not.

etc., to not think at least 50% are bigots.

I too would feel badly if I contributed to people like this arming up. Difference is, I'd do something about it whether than making excuses for them.

I agree with Michael Moore and others who are not so enamored with gunz that they can accept the truth.

Other than your gunz, I love you guys.

ever read on the Internet to date, and I've read some really, really bad things in my 69 years on this planet.

I live in one of the most liberal regions in the USA (New England) and yet we also have 3 of the whitest states (>94% of pop) in the USA. It's not because those of us who live there are racist. It's just the historical settlement patterns of various ethnic groups.

1 Hawaiian, 1 Hispanic, 2 African Americans, 1 Guamanian, 1 old white guy

All liberals

You have no citable evidence that it's mostly RW racists that are, in your words, arming up.
That's all you had to say.

I get that gunz are an important part of your life, hence the username. Thus, you have a hard time accepting criticism of gunz and those that promote them.

However you said that you had evidence that least 50% of the people at gun shows are racists. When asked to provide proof of that all you did was to refer to that same post.

"Sorry, I disagree. Too many right wingers, confederate and Tparty flags (inside and out),

etc., to not think at least 50% are bigots.

I too would feel badly if I contributed to people like this arming up. Difference is, I'd do something about it whether than making excuses for them.

I agree with Michael Moore and others who are not so enamored with gunz that they can accept the truth.

Other than your gunz, I love you guys."

All I see is opinion, nary a shred of proof.

Again I ask, show me proof of what you claim is true.

that RW rag, Washington Times.

all you gave me was your opinion, which isn't evidence.
All you had to say was, sorry, I don't have any citable evidence, but here's my opinion and I would've left it at that.

arming up nowadays. The reason is, you know it's true, but to admit it threatens your access to gunz and you care more about that than the truth or consquences to society. Same for most of your gunner buddies above, some of whom profit from gunz.

If you have evidence to refute Michael Moore and others who believe similarly, please post it.

Back it up with some evidence, not opinion.

That's going to leave a mark.

See post #106 about all those right wing gun cultists who are no longer with us, at least using the same username.

...who used to blight DU?

You know, the self-important one that posted incessantly about how stupid/racist/sexist/irresponsible gun owners are and who just couldn't manage to keep their bigotry hidden?

For some reason, I've been reminded of them lately. I wonder why?

Since it's you, well...

why not provide a link like asked

hypocrisy

The rest... Not so much...

None.

Oh. Okay.

Aiding yahoos in manufacturing untraceable gunz ain't good for anyone but homegrown terrorists.

I would not consider any of them "Domestic terrorists", regardless of what a fast and loose buchcheneyist definition you apply to the term.

Love your authoritarianism, though. It could be bad=should be illegal.

Randy Weaver - who sold illegal gunz to the Ayran Nation was a responsible gun owner. People that into gunz - to the point they want them untraceable - usually have serious issues.

called out again and will not respond with any proof of the accusation of fellow DU members.

Quite sad actually. I expect no replies at all now.

Right wing, racist gun cultists get caught sooner or later.

You ain't helping yourself.

In other words, you're actively coming for our guns.

You've lost any right you ever had to call him owners paranoid.


But don't worry, while you're worrying about AR-15s, 65% of all murders will continue to be done with handguns.

for personal consumption...

The ATF says “the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.”

They are saying you can sell it but should engrave a serial number, manufacturer (you) and city of manufacture.

Also note that the ATF says you SHOULD do this. It does not say you MUST, so even that is only a recomendation.

Although you can sell or transfer a receiver you made you can not build it with the intention of doing so. Legally you can build one with the intent to keep, then change your mind and sell it the next day, but it would be tough to prove your intent so that is not recommended.

You can't transfer ownership of the part true, so that means you can't sell or give it away. But that gives a question - Who is the owner of the part? The person who owns the machine that made it, or the person using the machine to make it?

The law bidin' gun makers are now talking about how to get around the laws. "You can build them, you just can't sell them" turns into "here's how you get around that law". And I'm sure EVERY one of those law bidin' cit-zens that makes a gun with no serial number has only the best of intentions.....

Pretty clear

..... if it is legal to make these components. Not that that would stop anyone, but then mere purchase of this machine would be probable cause IMHO.

They just have to otherwise be legal firearms (like no full-auto) and the person not legally prohibited from owning firearms. They can make as many firearms as they want for personal ownership and use.

The hardest part of a firearm to make is a rifled barrel, this machine doesn't do that. What they are doing is making an aluminum AR-15 lower receiver which is a much easier operation and that piece is what the ATF classifies as the "firearm". All the other components are readily available online and not regulated.

And you can't make an M60 or any other fully automatic weapon you couldn't legal own.

There is nothing illegal in manufacturing your own firearm, as long as you don't transfer it, sell it, make it a full auto, or aren't prohibited from owning firearms.

Guns are sold without a paper trail all the time. It's a myth perpetrated by tv shows that detectives will find a gun near a dead body and somehow link it back to a registered owner who then confesses and goes to jail before the end credits.

I've in my possession two handguns that are in no way traceable to me. They were legally purchased by other people and through some means or another legally made it into my collection. If I pass either of them to another person who then uses it in a crime and leaves it behind, the police are not going to arrest the first people who bought them and just happened to be the last to bring paperwork into the process.

When someone uses a gun illegally, they will be tracked through other means and punished. Usually the person is caught with said gun still in their possession.

... you are probably the sort who could easily buy one from a sketchy source or steal one for yourself.

There's no shortage of guns anywhere in the U.S.A.

This is what it's making: https://www.stagarms.com/stripped-lower-receiver-5-56/

To build the gun, you need to add all the trigger parts, springs, screws, as well as a stock and a barrel upper assembly. They all snap together pretty easily, but the machine in the OP doesn't make those AFAIK.

At $100 for a stripped receiver, you'd REALLY need to like AR's for this machine to pay for itself.

With the rise of 3D printing, though, this was inevitable. The next step will be the creation of polymers strong enough to contain the pressures generated by a firearm, and viola! Real, plastic guns that can be built entirely in your house, from the barrel to the receiver to the magazine to the stock. Maybe you'll need a few springs and screws from the local hardware store, and ammo of course, but that's about it.

Pretty scary, honestly.

The rest comes with no background check etc.

I have a lot of ideas that I could try out on it and I'm proficient in AutoCad and have a good understanding of mechanics. 1200 bucks isn't that much either to make it prohibitive.

and it seems like this is all I ever hear about it...making guns.
Surely there are better things humans can do with these machines.

Yeah, it's a shame they are just used to make guns...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_control


You only hear about it because you're being taken for a ride by fear-mongering sensationalists.

I thought this was about the "3D"machines that anyone could have, not just factories.

Doesn't really change anything. I know 3 men who own CNC machines who are in no way involved it commercial manufacturing. Some people just do it as a hobby, or for replacement of machine parts, such as for use on a farm. Anyone can own one already. Many do.

I just don't see what the big deal is over this, though. I've seen a guy finish an aluminum lower block into a receiver for an AR-15 with a dremel.

Waaaaay out of my price range.

The machine is $1,200, the blank around $100, and the remaining parts cost around $500. All to produce a firearm that I cannot sell or transfer under any circumstances. The same rifle that I can buy for ~$650 elsewhere.

Pass.

I can see the appeal for the serious hobbyist, but I don't see a practical use, personally. Maybe a group buy between 10 or so folks who all want to mill their own receiver.

Well, I guess you could make one for each AR-15 you plan to assemble. But you can't sell them and as I understand it, you can't even give them away to family members.

they basically become a gun manufacturer and at that point have to apply a serial number. It is my understanding that MFRs have to submit to the ATF the serial numbers of all firearms they manufacture for sale. For personal possession- no SN needed.

I just couldn't justify plunking down $1,200 for one at this point. Maybe when they have developed a few more patterns. My wife keeps out of my hobbies, she didn't even ask why when I bought an 1866 Winchester Yellow Boy for many thousands of dollars, but I think she might balk at this.

Somebody going through that much work probably wouldnt want this machine. Theu could lease a CNC machine and make a lot more. This could apeal to aomebody with no background, but I would hope manufacturer would have a machinst to handle more complicated machines.

Ultimately, the point is that control over the construction of objects by the state is almost dead. People are going to be free to make what they want.

Just wait until molecular bioprinters allow for creation of drugs at the house. You haven't see anything yet. Give it 20 years.

If he wants to make a buck selling a machine that makes gun parts of questionable quality, good luck to him.

Though over the long-run though these sorts of machines will probably be the death of gun legislation, as the quality and sophistication improves.

Granted, it's a decent price for a little aluminum-capable cnc machine... but that's all it is.

... in Pakistan they can make you an entire gun without using any complicated machine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darra_Adam_Khel

Hell, a passable CNC rig for $1200 . . . I'll take one.

For example:



http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/?p=4443

Some of the imports from China are interesting too but from what I've read they often require modifications to make them useful for a particular purpose.

But yeah, I get your point.

I'm considering a shapeoko 2 but upgrading to screw / screw carriages rather than belts.

And no doubt the vast majoirty of buyers consider themselves 'responsible gun owners' and 'patriots'.

very scary

TAKE COVER KIDS!!