hell I've seen Jon Stewart get thrown under the bus.

Maher has some dumb ideas but in general I like him. As it goes with many folks. There is almost no one on the planet you are going to agree with 100% of the time, and thank god for that, it'd be like the future portrayed in Demolition Man... DU needs to figure this out at some point..

He is not a hypocrite on this. He is against nutty religion.

Once again DUers took a comment or an argument and projected the most venal arguments onto Bill's head. His claim that many on the left automatically call anyone who says anything negative an Islamophobe was right on the money.

But I will condemn radical Christians and radical Islam, and challenge those who oppose them of that faith to speak out and be fair about it. There is no reason to wring your hands over criticism of one and not the other. Both religions can and should be able to hack it.

just because it is somebody's religion. I do not have the patience to argue with liberals who think it is.

It's simple math, really.

Thanks.

A few decades ago I was close friends with a large university Turkish community and found the misogynistic attitudes even in this relatively more progressive group shocking. Truly liberal attitudes are not valued but are opposed in such communities. Afleck and anyone who'd call me bigoted should also call anyone opposing the rightwing bigoted, if they applied the same logic and standards.

Liberal, progressive ideas should always trump any person or any group.

And please don't let anyone here tell you otherwise. If he were trashing Christianity, this place would throw him a fucking parade.

Liberals will fall all over themselves trying to be so inclusive when it comes to minorities (even though I think Islam is now the largest religion in the world) that they twist themselves into a pretzel defending the indefensible.

I wonder if the liberals would put as much passion into defending Christianity? Hell, I've heard worse about Catholics and Mormons on DU!

but I think he needs to do more to differentiate between the customs and governments of some Muslim-dominant countries - which admittedly are abysmal - and Muslims in general. There are somewhere between 1.5 and 2 billion Muslims in the world, and their personal beliefs and feelings run the gamut between hard-core Fundamentalist ISIS types to almost 100% secular, like a lot of us lapsed Christians, and my guess is that's even within those very conservative countries, although, of course, they can't speak freely because of their country's laws. Remember, of course, those Christian Ugandans who wanted the death penalty for gay people.

It's not hard to imagine that a modern American Muslim, for example, might take offense at what seems to be Bill's generalizations about their religion. The Qu'ran is no more violent than the Bible, and most Muslims who live in modern, free countries are no more crazy or radical than anyone else.

He thinks that anyone who believes in any God has mental health issues--whether those beliefs are fundamentalist or secular.

He's been very consistent on this issue. I'm not saying what he believes is right but he has been consistent.

I am just as fearful of the Baptist in the house next door to me who believes Obama is the anti-Christ and VOTES as I am of some Muslim in some godforsaken desert mud hut on the other side of the world.

I can live with both, but both are impacting my and our personal liberties and freedoms.

It is religion.

don't, one can make the case that it is the fundamentalist atheists that have mental issues.

I happen to be Agnostic on religious matters. IMO, given the very limited ability of our intellect, we will never be able to grasp the levels of philosophies or science that can prove or disprove the existence of God. I find it perplexing that anyone can take a hard line either way on this question.

Maher doesn't just "pick on" Fundamentalist Muslims... he picks on all believers, no matter their level of belief.

As far as your claim: "Since those that believe in God greatly outnumber those that don't, one can make the case that it is the fundamentalist atheists that have mental issues." One, there's no such thing as fundamentalist atheists... there's just atheists--don't ascribe religious terms toward people that have a lack of belief in religion--it's insulting. More so, your statement doesn't hold water.

Most of the people believed the Earth was flat at one time, just because their numbers had the majority didn't make them right.
The majority of folks at one time believed the sun and planets revolved around the Earth... didn't make them right.
Then there's bloodletting and all kinds of things science believed, hence the general population believed, that turned out to not be true.

That see the non-existence of God in black and white terms and are ever eager to inject their opinions in the most arrogant manner? I must have missed something.

On your other point, if one views knowledge as infinite as the universe there is no way the human mind can ever wrap itself around the existence of God either way. The trend is not your friend here.

it does make me wonder. Since there are around 2 Billion Muslims in the world, why is it that we hear only from a handful and even that is hardly ever. This great majority isn't taking any time to let the world that they aren't backing the fundamentalist terrorist wing of their religion. Getting other Muslim countries to support in the fight against terrorists or even simply to DENOUNCE the terrorists is harder than keeping ice cream frozen in a hot car in July.

Maybe you're right that moderate Muslims aren't speaking out, but our media is not known for presenting all sides in these sorts of matters, and it's to the advantage of our war machine to downplay any moderate voices - especially if they might become "collateral damage" in some future bombing mission. It's better to let Americans think of them all as "the enemy."

I was happy (and surprised) that the CBS evening news last night interviewed some of the Muslim people who had been working with the British aid worker who was beheaded. They were clearly appalled.

hardly use only our media. We watch the BBC and Al Jazeera and read publications that are far from the mainstream. It seems the only time I see anything resembling a massive demonstration it's in favor of the nutcases. Bill is not a bigot for pointing that out.

For example, here we have the Tea Party, which makes a lot of noise and wields a lot of power, even though they are a minority of Americans. Moderates aren't usually in the streets demonstrating angrily or threatening revoluation, even here. We don't know why moderate Muslims aren't getting themselves in the news, but I imagine it's because they're busy leading their lives, wherever they happen to find themselves - just like the rest of us.

a political party who had a good run in 2010 and now people pretty much ignore or make fun of. This is a group(s) that are hijacking a religion and using it against their own. isil has killed far more Muslims than anyone else so yes, I would expect those who are against them to rise up and CRUSH them. Instead I'm watching them march across Syria and now Iraq with seemingly nobody doing anything other than asking the US to bail them out.

living in Duhok, northern Iraq, who has been posting pictures on Facebook of demonstrations in his city against Dash, his term for ISIS, and artists going on hunger strikes. This has to be at great personal risk.

We can sit over here and speculate all we want, but I'm not so sure we can read the hearts and minds of moderate Muslims around the world, even in these very dangerous places.

He's saying that appallingly right-wing attitudes are held by a large majority of Muslims in general (although by no means all), and that it's misleading to present the problem as just being about governments and customs of certain countries.

If anything, the governments and constitutions of many Muslim-majority nations are less right-wing on e.g. women's rights, freedom of speech or freedom of religion than their populaces are.

as I have Muslims in my extended family who are wonderful people, in no way "appallingly right-wing."

None of us knows the universe of Muslims, so it's really difficult to make generalizations.

I can think of no statement of the form "all Muslims X" that is not false.

But

1) There are lots of statements of the form "Most Muslims X" - or, even better, "According to this soure, 81% of Muslims X" - that are true (I do not think this claim is controversial)

2) Many of those statements are fair, useful and informative (I think this claim is slightly controversial).

Bigotry begins when you interpret "most" or "81%" as "all" or, in particular "this one standing in front of me".

I found this episode to be one of my recent favorites. Ben Affleck did a good job presenting his ideas on most of the show, but when it came to debate this, he was wrong and was completely over matched by Maher.

Gone Girl was a really good movie too

It's not easy to separate the "art" from the "artist," since a lot of their ideologies and mindsets inevitably end up in their work.

What we did in Iran was effed up imperialism in real life, but in hindsight, I'm a little concerned that he might have come unhinged during the filming of Argo. Maybe that was the reason for the "lucky" facial hair?



The only way you'll know if he's gone full-on Cat Stevens if he busts out of his trailer shouting "DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!" on the set of a Spielberg film. Oy.

I think Maher was arguing that the Koran says you must kill infidels, which is followed in Muslim theocracies.
But it's not followed by peaceful Muslims in secular countries.

Maher was saying that the Koran is full of violent teachings. He could say the same about the other two Abrahamic religions.
Sensible people will ignore the violent teachings, but some of the followers are going to go out and kill people that they disagree with. And that includes some Christians that hate liberals and abortion doctors.

Bill Maher and Sam Harris support many of these imperial adventures. Torture supporting Sam Harris is a full-fledged neocon, and Bill Maher displays his imperial arrogance by dehumanizing many of the victims of these imperial adventures.

They both were major cheerleaders of Israel's atrocities against the Gaza Strip. Some bigot tried to post in GD one of Sam Harris' bigoted pieces supporting Israel's aggression against the Gaza Strip. Fortunately the post was promptly hidden.

Bill Maher has claimed that Arabs and Muslim only know violence and the only way to deal with Muslims is with violence. He openly supports Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign against Arabs because he considers Jewish lives far more worthy than Muslim and Arab lives.

Bill Maher and Sam Harris are both dangerous religious extremists.


THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!!! by Sam Haris: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/sep/18/opinion/oe-harris18

Thought Bill was an ass in the way he talked to Ben, who I agreed w/completely. Have always loved B/Maher, but this gives me a huge question mark as to whether we can trust him anymore.

throwing tomatoes at the unpopular minority group du jour. Liberals err on the side of protecting minorities from discrimination and bigotry.

He apparently thinks of himself as a liberal. I don't.

Shame on him.

which is what Mayer is.

whether held by Muslims, Christians, or atheists.