And we should stop celebrating the people who genocided them. Like the founders of this nation. They were not nice people and did nothing but harm the natives and the african hostages who they enslaved.

We owe them about 10 quintillion dollars. Plus interest.

I'm interested in practical ways to help them. Would it be paid out to the tribal leaders? Or reparations for each person? And I am assuming you are talking about us taking personal responsibility?

Should each citizens payment be a percentage of his or her income/wealth?

Bryant

We will never be able to pay it off but we can start paying something. And we need to cede some land back.

The cash should come from profitable corporations who do business in America. A luxury tax.

The native American Population is about 5.2 million. Multiply that by $2,000 and then annualize it. That represents about 3.31% of the 2014 budget (requested) of $3.77 trillion. That's doable.

What land should give back to them, and what should be done to the people who currently live on that land?

Bryant

Ans we should thank the gods tgat they will not Trail of Tears us like we did to them. We should politely leave. The government should fund our moves and provide money for the equity we hold. Otherwise we should be able to petition the tribes to let us stay. They were kind enough to allow us to stay last time. They are good people. We can ask them for permission this time.

The United States would renounce all claim to them.

Bryant

We are usurpers. They can name their own nations as they did before we came here.

At any rate, while I doubt the political will is there to do this - I'd support it - certainly the $2,000 a month - I'd probably support $4,000 a month.

Bryant

You missed nothing. He was a nobody. I don't see racists as real people, I fear.

Sure, unlike us, they are saints.

So, there's that.

It's so RUDE!

I'll play the Indian, you can play the conquistador. You get to choose the safe word, too!

Read:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

Native people already occupied the land, but you knew that.

gmta

Perhaps some employment might alleviate the boredom? You know there's porn on the internet too. You can play with all KINDS of false bravado with that!

Just to make the poor Spanish look bad. It was a tragedy

Invaders angry at the natives they were trying to slaughter trying to fight back.

Family!

Regardless of the whitewashed term you've chosen, the native people were brutalized, enslaved and killed by the new arrivals from Europe.

Sorry if that hurts your fee fees.

Difficult to do when you're REALLY dead, of course.

Take the Navajos for instance - they conquered whatever land they wanted took whatever slaves they wanted incorporating the people that they wanted to keep killing the rest

Do we tell them they need to go back to Canada and give their current land back to the Hopis?

Take the English for example, they came here, took what they wanted, brought slaves, massacred the Native population. They mare Colonies around the world, From Africa to India, subjected the Scots, starved the Irish, nearly annihilated the Aborigines in Australia and their descendants to this day continue racist practices. Should they forever be allowed to pretend that just because the Navajo or the German or anybody else did wrongs, that their wrongs were justified or somehow not that wrong and the victims deserve nothing but scorn for centuries?

And you Totally ignored my question with a deflection. Which I assume means you don't have an answer.

Then there will be no debt. Until payment is tendered.

You chipping in?

Tee state can pay.

I want a check from the Italian government.

this myself. If we carry the reparations deal to the end, the Italians are in huge trouble. Massive.

Me, I'll forgo the check and take some nice property, perferably on the Adriatic.

Because as white Euros, they started on second base. Once they learned the language, HOME RUN!

After all, you got a real good deal... Shouldn't matter that the price was disclosed to you upfront and you paid that price.

do you still think it's a good deal when you find out that trait feeds into racist or ethnic bigotry?

bought 75 years ago.

and my grandfather wasn't allowed to buy at any price and therefore his heirs had no inheritance.

so you live in Arizona, likely on land that Native Americans had claim to.

the idea that your hands are clean is ridiculous.

Likely a multitude of tribes.

Again - what does a 19th century decision have to do with my house?

are you white? do you think white people currently benefit from the decisions decades and centuries ago to deny civil rights to African Americans?

they do.

just because the decision is old doesn't mean that we don't live with its effects.

How have I benefited? How do you quantify that?

Should I pay a white tax?


That attitude is why we never move on - the solution is to end discrimination of all kinds, not try to punish innocent people for something their ancestors may or may not have done (and for the record, my ancestors where all northerners, and many were involved in the abolitionist movement in MA).



This thread is full of so much fail.

That fucking idiotic.

you must have me confused with someone else. read it again.

You are saying I have benefited from being white. Maybe, maybe not. So what am I supposed to do with that information? Why are you pointing that out except to put a guilt trip on?

I don't even think feeling guilty is helpful.

but clearly this guilt word is in your head and it's stopping you from figuring out how we can deal with broken promises and inequality based on ancestry.

and give them back to the tribes. We have several casinos here in the Phoenix area that are on reservation land and run by the Native Americans. Two are close to me and are run by the Salt River Pima tribe. This tribe also has a top notch golf course (Talking Sticks) and the Pavilions which is home to stores like PetCo. Payless Shoes, Home Depot, Hooters, Target, etc... If you choose to shop there you are entering reservation lands.


http://www.thepavilionsattalkingstick.com/

The link below is from the Salt River Pima

http://www.srpmic-nsn.gov/economic/tsced/culture.asp


pdf file regarding lands owned in each state

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42346.pdf

We have plenty of land to give back.

That kicked out all their native tribes?


Arizona already has the largest percentage of land in reservation - and they, like all other Americans, have access to federal lands.

on the order of about $30k per year. Dont know if evey tribal member gets it, but from what I understand it is all adults.

They vast majority have done exactly jack squat with it. Imagine for the past 20 years getting $30 k a year on top of what you get at work...oh that is a problem.

The reservations here have a very hard time employing native americans so they hire about 30% white folks to do the govt jobs on the reservation to includ the cops. Lots of reasons behind that.

Idiotic. Some people drink their paychecks up and smoke crack. They still get paid. When somebody is OWED sonething, you cannot withhold payment because you don 't approve of their lifestyle. These folks have been stolen from for centuries and yes, they are fucking depressed and miserable at times and self medicate. If we had ever stuck to our original treaties they would have much more land, a MUCH LARGER population and be less likely to have these problems. They are owed. And fuck that right wing nanny state talking point bullshit where you talk about all of their bad qualities to get out of paying them. They do the same bullshit with black people. I see what you are.

The government should pay since they allowed us to be used as slaves. And if the government has violated us and continue to do so, they are doubly guilty. Put that in yr pipe and smoke it! We pit a price tag on it by determining the value of lost pay, adding in racism tax and lynching fees, multiplying that by Jim Crow amounts, and factoring in all of the penalties for discrimination. I value it at about 50 trillion dollars. Then we can figure out how much women are owed in lost wages and sexism fees.

Manners, please!

You racist shit!

Telling people what they ought to do doesn't work.

They live the life, and they probably have the best ideas about what they need.

Money and the return of stolen lands would probably be a good place to start.

that sounds so very paternalistic, patronizing..'what should we do to make their lives better'

Did they ask you for your help? America has been 'helping them since Columbus.'

I want to do something positive to help them, rather than simply browbeat the United States about our history.

I don't think simply turning our back on their issues while condemning Columbus is the best thing one could do.

Bryant

intelligent people to direct their progress. What happens when we go in to "help" them is that we tell them what to do and which way we think they should go. This does not work in any of the places that we have tried to override the culture and turn them into little white people.

I should have read the entire thread before I posted my response at #64.

As a Person of Color, I bristle whenever I see these discussions among liberals ... because they never seem to get around to asking what the affected people, they intend to save, want ... they talk to themselves and work really, really hard to provide stuff that they would want if they were in that spot ... and then are shocked and/or hurt (to the point of anger) that no one (few) falls to the knees, for generations, in gratitude.

Should American participants at DU head back to Europe?

Bryant

Some Americans have dual nationalities and would be able to relocate. But most do not.

Give them jobs, allow them to run (and give them new) schools, provide healthcare.

A casino that is run by some half blood (or much less) that does not keep the money in the community does little for the people of the tribe.

Give them good jobs, and with that, hope. Give them access to healthy foods, and fight the high levels of obesity on the rez.

Start honoring treaties that were signed years ago.

full bloods left in the USA. The casino in our community hires many people both Native, black and white. And they are good jobs with health care benefits.

several that are horrible and full of corruption that only add insult to injury

that THEY run. taking care of children ALWAYS pays.
i know people on a rez with no running water or sewer. or healthcare.

helping them farm is another good one. small farms on each rez, with good support and supplies would make a lot of change. i have sent them heirloom seedlings and they were very thankful. i told them how to save the seeds.
they should be helped to grow their native foods.

we do a lot for big farmers. we need to help small farmers, too.

Can you give any examples of the casinos run run by "half bloods", or that are corrupt?

Has about zero chance of being implemented. Most Americans do not give a shit, so the crime will forever go unpunished unless in the probably far future the Americans become a conquered people and the conquerors nail the list of previous transgressions on the American people as a whole as a way of justifying their conquest.

Under the current scheme of things, the Secretary of the Interior is more relevant to the various tribes than the President himself. We can't turn back the clock to a time before Wounded Knee and Cripple Creek, but we can change the way the tribes are represented.

No more semi-autonomous "nations." Instead, states. States that are free to enforce tribal law, states with chiefs instead of governors, states that are based on the rightful land of a given tribe instead of scraps from the BIA.

More importantly, states that are able to send their own Senators and Representatives to Capitol Hill. To participate in the National Guard with their own units. To attract business, tourism, and enterprise as they see fit without someone looking over their shoulders. To provide quality education for their children so that they can succeed in whatever endeavors they pursue.

Yes, I can dream - I can dream of a time when I can tell my nephew that I visited states such as Oklahoma, Nevada, Florida, Seminole, and Navajo.

Making sure to confiscate from people we don't like.

Nothing like leading by example.

regardless of what their ancestry happens to be. If two people are both desperately poor and struggling with rent and medical bills I'm not sure that the person who happens to have Native American ancestry should get a fat monthly check while the person with Irish ancestry gets nothing.

one size doesn't fix all ... what one community needs, is not necessarily needed by another. For example, Communities of Color would likely prioritize the elimination of discrimination (something unique to Communities of Color) over ... say ... job training, and maybe even job creation.

Why not address that rather than deflect to a generalized underprivileged issue?

And the discussion isn't people with Native American ancestry, it's Native Americans -- a racial minority who have suffered through eons of personal and cultural discrimination unlike that of Americans of Irish ancestry.

Sorry, I should have explained that in the earlier post. I assumed that you understood that the "No Irish Need Apply" signs came down a century ago.

the thread is about Native Americans.

Signed--an Irish-American.

Irish-American (with grandparents who experienced discrimination as children, then not so much) and Indian (with culture stripped to "improve" my grandfather's lot in life.)

I also have immediate relatives who are Native American, some with rez experience.

In short, the Irish equivalency argument is hooey.

WHY? you don't live here and you always weigh in to say that we should do something other than deal directly to confront or end racism?

what gives?

let me just make it clear that I have nothing against someone from out of the country offering advice or opinions, but I have a big problem with you telling us to NOT directly try to tackle an important social issue in our country.

The person of Irish ancestry wasn't handed blankets that carried Small Pox

The person of Irish ancestry didn't have his ancestors slaughtered at Wounded Knee

The person of Irish ancestry wasn't moved across the nation in a death march

Normally, I'm with you, Nye -- I have to respectfully disagree here.

to someone who can't pay their medical bills and is facing eviction or foreclosure?

They get medical care through the BIA. Many are provided housing, but the quality of the housing is generally awful. Old FEMA trailers -- not well built to begin with, and hard to heat in winter. Theuy lack a lot of basic necessities: diapers for their babies, winter coats, school supplies. Many of the reservations I've visited have 70% + unemployment and huge alcohol and drug issues. They see the government (read: the white man) as an entity that continually makes promises it does not keep.

More than 70% of Native Americans live outside of their tribal reservations, a number that has climbed substantially in recent years (the percentage has been increasing by about 10% per decade). In spite of this exodus, only a tiny percentage of the services and resources available to Native Americans can be had in urban settings. The Indian Health Service, for example, only allocates about 1% of its budget to support Native Americans who live outside of the reservation setting. This lack of support has been cited as one of the reasons why it is so hard to break the cycle of poverty. They flee the reservations because there are no jobs or opportunities there, enter the cities, and find themselves unable to gain access to educational opportunities and job training needed to actually land the jobs. When they attempt to access resources intended to help Native Americans out in these situations, they're often told "Go back to the reservation if you need help."

My wife's grandmother was adopted off-reservation in the 1940's and ended up in California. Her children (including my mother in law) struggled greatly because there were so few resources available to help them. When my wife went to college (the first woman in her mothers family to ever do so), she just selected "Hispanic" on all of the financial aid and scholarship forms, because there is so much more assistance available to hispanics than to Native Americans. Between her skin color and the fact that she speaks Spanish fluently, nobody ever questioned it.

One tribal nation runs a loansharking outfit called Western Sky, but that isn't much better. Nor is the fairly widespread practice of selling tax-free cigarettes. And of course, there's always nuclear waste dumping. How about a medical clinic beyond the reach of FDA, hopefully utilizing treatments approved in Europe, Canada, etc. but not here.

Of course, the tribal nations rolling in dough from casinos could invest some of that $$$ on other reservations.

LISTEN TO WHAT NATIVE AMERICANS SAY ABOUT WHAT WE SHOULD DO TO IMPROVE THEIR LIVES ... rather than, foist our opinions on them; then, DO IT!

But I suspect that would prove to be too difficult.

It's as reasonable as anything else suggested here.

emotional responses, I have to agree with you.

The world will be a better place without us. In case you're wondering how to accomplish this, might I suggest...

[link:|

Support well-vetted, native-run organizations that help out natives, such as Okiciyap. (http://okiciyap.weebly.com)

And purchase art and other craftwork from natives who sell such. (http://www.wingssilverwork.com)

(Disclaimer: While I fundraise for Okiciyap, and am friendly online with Wings and his wife, I receive no payment of any sort for sending folks towards either of them. I just know they're all good people, who do what they can to help out their respective NA communities.)

responses - so thank you for participating.

Bryant

Years ago, an enterprising Lakota farmer, Alex White Plume, on the Pine Ridge reservation decided to grow hemp as a viable cash crop - which, for those who are unaware, is a completely NON-psychoactive member of the Cannabis family. Because he lived on Reservation land which was supposedly a "Sovereign Nation", he figured this would be an excellent enterprise with a ready market, an excellent opportunity for the tribe to become self-supporting. Furthermore, in 1998 the Ogalala Tribal Council had vote to encourage the growing of hemp.

But, forget it. He tried twice, and both times, just before the plants were ready to harvest, the fucking DEA swooped in and destroyed his entire crop.

So much for being a "Sovereign Nation".

So here's one thing that ought to be fixed.

Edited to add some links:
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2001/08/07/white-plumes-relinquish-hemp-crop-84805
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2003/09/18/hemp-could-be-crop-future-89314
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2007/07/06/pine-ridge-farmer-struggles-grow-hemp-91082
http://www.twofrog.com/hemp.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_White_Plume
http://www.hemphasis.net/Notable/notable_files/whiteplume.htm