Phuck politics.

Your opening paragraph would seem to indicate that you pretty much disapprove of President Obama anyhow. Feh!

putting the public at risk with a horrible example of leadership, you can see exactly why we don't approve of this President.

I congratulate you on your loyalty, however, I assure you Obama's failure to remove this man is hurting more than it is helping.

It hurts two ways,

1. Most importantly the public no longer trusts the CDC and will, for the foreseeable future, question everything they say and do.

2. The public, once again, sees no accountability for clear incompetence by another government agency.

Once again, political fealty trumps public welfare.

Sid

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Now would be a horrible time to fire him.

Last edited Thu Oct 16, 2014, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

make the right decisions. How many people would be given an opportunity to continue after fucking up this badly? He could appoint a real leader in this position during recess.

If he's the most competent person for the job, then this country is truly in deep shit.

Yeah, what we need is not only no Surgeon General, but no head of the CDC either.

With Texas Health Presbyterian and the Republicans who gutted preparedness funding.

Obama's failures can consistently be traced to his reluctance to hold subordinates accountable. No doubt his political advisers are in agreement with you - hold the line, don't waiver, etc.

Just like SEC and banking crisis, EPA and growing groundwater crisis and drought, MMS and Deep Horizon, FDA/EPA and genetically modified foods and the increasingly dangerous pesticides and herbicides needed to protect them, NSA lying to Congress, it goes on and on. A lack of transparency and accountability has put the nation at risk.

As far as Republicans, somehow Rick Perry barked and Obama was able to commit nearly $4 billion to an idiotic border war between Texas and Mexico.

Say all you want about funding... it's there. You just have to be willing and knowledgeable to fight for it. That takes leadership.

And Texas Health Presbyterian gets no criticism for completely screwing the pooch with Duncan in the first place, including not following proper procedures for decontamination, PPE, and hazmat disposal.

Yep, the solution is to fire Frieden. Pay no attention to the monkey wrench GOP behind the curtain.

You assume I'm some sort of party loyalist hack who wants to shield the administration from blame.

Except I'm not.

The CDC is not to blame for THP's fuckups and the Republicans sabotaging their budget.

It lets the average American know how safe they are. Assuming just the two Nurses remain the only victims, it may work out well for the party in control.

Sheesh

the arm chair virologist squad.

Should I try that

LOL , I hope you got a picture of that.

are required which transcend politics. Leaving someone so ham fisted in this position is asking for trouble.

He's made a mockery of CDC. And it is, in fact, clear why that happened.

I don't agree that he has made a mockery of anything.

The CDC deals with a lot more then Ebola.

Upheaval at the CDC right now would not help anything.

And lastly, I would like to wait a bit to find out the real story rather then having the president jump to conclusions and make a decision this important hastily.

for Obama to fire Frieden.

but I think Obama, Frieden should wait until after this Ebola craze dies down, no pun intended, a bit before any measure is taken concerning his employment.

And they are always right.

putting the public at risk with absurd guidance which clearly showed how out of touch he is, to make the Republicans mad? Really?

I'm just wondering how bad someone has to be at their job so that both parties agree the person should step down.

to handle Ebola. A cocky pile of bullshit designed to exude confidence in the face of crisis that backfired. Like it always does.

He's completely wrong for the job.

And state health departments regulate to make certain hospitals follow the rules. The cdc does not have jurisdiction over this, or any other hospital. They can only provide guidelines. One assumes that any hospital would at least review them, much less follow them when someone walks through the door and says 'I'm sick and just came in from Liberia." The hospital did not. From the reaction, it looks like a lot of hospitals did not. Rest assured, they will now. Nothing like a tragic screw up like this to plump the complacency right out of risk managers everywhere.

they cannot give her guidance not to travel? And why wasn't there anyone from CDC on site at the hospital treating the first Ebola patient in the US for the purposes of guidance?

These things are well within their operating charter. All I am hearing on this thread is excuses for bad performance. Something that is becoming a trademark of the government no matter who is president.

In the end we are losing because a choir of loyalists refuses to admit bad mistakes were made and there should be accountability.

And so we circle back to the beginning. Neither was protocol followed, nor was the cdc notified for 2 days while the hospital waited for the test results to return. The cdc has said they will send a treatment team in the future. Nonetheless, it would have done little good here since the cdc did not even know for 2 days. This does not even encompass the monumental mistake made in sending the poor man home in the first place.

well after the first two had been confirmed. They told her she could travel.

She was a nurse who treated the victim.

You know this right? It's been verified as true. Inconvenient, but true.

If you weren't aware of this fact, you can easily research it.

Yet, it seems like you are correct. I also read she called the hospital. However, an elevated temperature is not a fever. Now, I am reading she had a high fever, but didn't say that. Who knows anymore. The press seems determined to panic. A simple Google search a few days ago was effective. Today, there is so much vitriol leading the popularity chain it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Nonetheless, Mr. Duncan had a fever of 103 when he was first sent home and he did not infect anyone until he was much sicker. I am inclined to trust epidemiologists with the knowledge that they will adapt anything they need to adapt to protect us as well as stopping the epidemic in West Africa.

Maybe the plane should land before the pilots are pushed out the door

of lives are now at stake. But heck, let's give the pilot another chance because it might not look good for "our side" if he steps down.

When you sack him you've got to make sure the next person up, knows the whole story, as it is known, so that the CDC doesn't just step back down the learning curve and start over.

While Dallas can be called a fail, it's not the only place CDC has been working on ebola, and ebola isn't the only thing CDC is working on.

Frieden has little chance of surviving this. Politicians want someone's head on stick and that's a whole lot easier for politicians to do to a public administrator than to one that's in the private sector.

At the same time, I don't think it's in the interest of the nation to increase dysfunction at CDC.

The nurses did not follow protocol because the hospital screwed up and endangered their lives. This happened before the cdc was even notified.

The nurses were following the CDC guidelines - including the one from CDC that says you can fly on a plane after being monitored for Ebola and exhibit onset of a fever.

For 2 days, according to the nurses themselves through the nurses' Union, Mr. Duncan was not isolated and protocols were not followed. It was not until Mr. Duncan tested positive that an attempt to follow protocol was made. Even then, according to the nurses, protocol was not followed in that infected waste was piled high. The list is rather endless. It all begins with the doctor who sent the man home with a 103 fever with antibiotics to treat a virus, even though Mr. Duncan told them 3 times he had just arrived from Liberia. The cdc is finally contacted by Mr. Duncan's nephew, not the hospital. The nurses were given one non-mandatory seminar on the protocols. Nobody made certain they knew them. It was a real hot mess. The cdc has no authority to force training. They can only provide guidelines.
Hospitals are regulated by the state, not the cdc or the federal government.

The cdc operates all over the world. Recently, an actual outbreak was stopped cold in Nigeria with the help of the cdc.

The nurses were also expected by the hospital to keep a full patient load while treating Mr. Duncan.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Let me guess, you are going to demand they take personal responsibility?

Sid

I trust the competency of Dr. Thomas Frieden in handling things much more than I do anyone who is shrieking that the head of the director of the CDC needs to be delivered on a platter.

After watching that hearing this morning, where a myriad of Re-thugs demonstrated their intent of turning an infectious disease crisis into mere political fodder for their malicious destructive agenda, which is, in fact, what is truly obstructive for a "successful democracy", I would hope that our president remain firm and resolute in the face of their obnoxious

that much because they saw themselves in the CEO seat. When Deep Horizon spewed millions of gallons of oil, lucky for Obama Republicans love oil. Deep water drilling is absolutely safe, said Obama. When Fukishima blew up, nuclear industry is something Republicans can get behind, so no worries, it can't happen here. Torture and spying? No problem, Republicans are sympathetic.

Liberals warned about the lack of accountability, the lazy defense of incompetence and the moral hazard being unleashed.

History repeats itself. "Any hospital in America can handle Ebola," said the CDC.

Now, look at the cluster fuck.

If there aren't consequences for bad leadership, this is the result.

Is this really better than holding people accountable for their fuck ups? Is this really better than admitting you made a mistake and showing the courage to correct it?

I believe that it's true that any hospital in America should be able to handle Ebola, if the caregivers educate themselves on the disease properly to become aware, take the necessary precautions, remain on high alert as they perform their duties, and never let fear cause a slip-up or mistake.

Practically every medical facility in our country is better equipped to handle this disease than anything they have in Liberia, for example.

I don't think that Dr. Frieden is in any way responsible for the fuck-ups which occurred in that Dallas hospital. After the way that Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital originally turned away Thomas Eric Duncan when he first tried to get help, there's no question in my mind that someone needs to be held accountable for this new "cluster fuck" and it ain't the CDC.

and yet the very first medical facility to treat this disease infected two nurses.

Those who don't think so could gain credibility by shutting their traps more often.

They're some might fine thinkers!


just in case

corrupt institutions'

we do?

bullshit.

The President will nominate Frieden as Surgeon General.

It does matter what you do. And I perceive the President as being too lackadaisical about this disease, more of an observer than acting as a person who is taking action to aggressively combat the spread of it. I fear that the mushy middle, the folks who decide the weekend before an election who to vote for, will see it that way, too.

If I'm right, we get our asses handed to us on November 4th.

how bad this is, and nor do they understand when leadership is expected/demanded.

It's as if the denials make it better. You know, like global warming.

Thanks for your post and thanks for not taking it personally. Respect.

education. We've slashed R&D, we have "market driven" medicine (plastic surgery, etc), push marketing of high margin products (products with little or no measurable benefit). There is no incentive to work on diseases like Ebola which are perceived to be no threat to rich, white Americans.

The rich will always be able to afford their education and their health care. If Mr. Duncan was CEO of Lockheed Martin, things would have gone a bit differently.