of people.

But does he look into himself and what he's offering these employees?

I've lived a long time now and worked a LOT of jobs for a LOT of people (including myself) and I've found that it's pretty easy to get people to work for you if you want them. You pay them more money than the competition. OR if you can't do that you give them better conditions to work under than the competition. And you make their production goals reasonable, rather than impossible.

But if you want to work people to death (sometimes literally) w/o giving them fair compensation, under lousy working conditions, then yeah, you're going to find it hard to get people to work for you.

Especially in those "All-American" family companies. Most people will take respect, and a positive work enviroment over money as a reason to go to work every day - but those are the things that are too "expensive" for a crummy employer to provide.

Not sure that is a good thing.

If so, may I recommend other, more wholesome places, where only deserving targets like liberals and leftists are ridiculed?

Yay for freedom of speech with the occasional hidden post by jury decision.

nt

is that the post is only hidden. You can always OPEN it and look at it!

Free speech...

Indeed.

DU would be awash in gold medals. We're none too shabby at pearl clutching either.

and what's the salary?

I'll be happy to post it among people I know.

and the job he was telling me about could only be done WITH TAXPAYER DOLLARS ... I highly doubt that a "private company" would fund the paving of a city street in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, with no personal incentives. I don't have the exact company he was with, but he was, of course, complaining that the job was paying UNION WAGE.

His complaints also included:

1. "They" don't have a driver's license ... apparently you have to have a driver's license (what, to work in a city with public transportation? Can't carpool to the main site, especially with gas prices that you're likely to blame Obama on? some issues here ...)

2. "They" can't pass a drug test.

3. "They" only want to work just long enough to get unemployment comp, which was another "stupid thing - extending it X weeks" ... (seems to me that the length of time they have to work is about the same amount of time construction season is here in Northeast Ohio)

Other "bumper-sticker" complaints ...

Those being: Having a valid driver's license and being drug-free. Being able and willing to work doesn't enter into it.

Having a high turnover rate would seem to be a problem with job conditions or, considering his attitude towards the people he hires, bad management.

Notice how he doesn't say that once hired they don't perform their job duties, which is what you would expect from people who don't want to work.

I'm sure it's never occurred to him that he might not be worth working for, him being a "job creator" and therefor beyond critique.

I don't recall any "private enterprise" funding the repairs to city streets ...

why take one that is like semi-slavery or working for practically nothing? That's the free market. If your friend isn't paying enough then he needs to raise the wages offered. It's how the free market works. Why is it that all those business people who want to deregulate everything and throw it on the free market, suddenly don't like it when the free market doesn't work in their favor?

He sat on unemployment for 2 years trying to duplicate his earlier salary. Meanwhile the rest of his friends who got laid off took new jobs, some paying less, and started moving up the food chain in their new organizations.

Just because you start at a certain point doesn't mean you will stay there. People who are confident in their abilities will take those jobs and figure out how to make them work or use them as a temporary situation on the way to looking for a better circumstance.

If you take a bad job and think that is the only future there is, then there isn't much hope to begin with.

wage and some benefits, like sick leave and vacation time. I doubt if the person in the OP is offering anything that will move workers up the food chain.

Does a future employer look upon someone who took a short term job at a reduced pay favorably or unfavorably? That is the decision to make. But having a job keeps the resume from being completely blank and may be a positive for the person who wants to hire a go-getter.

Frankly I'd be impressed with a person who took that crappy job and worked their butt off.

I did at every job I've had and guess what it got me? Nothing more than the same paycheck the people screwing off got and they are the one's that got the promotions. Not because of hard work but because they partied with the gang and went out drinking together.

I think a lot of people are tired of working their butts off just to be shit on.

I agree that things arent always fair. It's too bad that it's so difficult to run your own business where you can see results based on satisfaction of a job well done.

over the internet now. I was told by one of the supervisors on one job that I was doing wayyyyyyyyyyy more than necessary. Sometimes good enough is good enough and that's a hard thing for me to learn.

Props for going this way.

But, there aren't many brick and mortar jobs available where I live so I'll do this for as long as I can.

You just may find this was a great opportunity. Crossing my fingers.

Part of the problem is too many work at home workers will work for little to nothing. You have to look through lots of jobs to find one that pays decent. I don't work for $3.00 an hour - I can make more than that selling crap on E-bay and have in the past.

A long period of unemployment looks far worse on a resume than a work history that shows a person has remained gainfully employed, even if it's at a number of jobs.

I've learned something at every job I ever had, good or bad. Maybe it didn't seem relevant at the time, but experience never goes wasted.

Let me guess, you also know a welfare queen who drives around in a Cadillac.

Heck if I got laid off maybe I would decide to sit around for two years. I feel profoundly exhausted.

If you thought that it would interfere with your job search? Right?

I guess if I felt I needed health care I might consider it. Hawaii has a great law saying that full time jobs require employer paid health insurance.

You don't get it unless you are out looking for a job and they check up on you at every place you said you applied to. It's harder work than going to work and you don't get paid for it. Sitting around, my ass. It just goes to show how clueless you people are who don't have to struggle from paycheck to paycheck.

that unemployment allows this - that it makes people "unwilling to work."

Also unemployment is insurance which premium is taken out of our paychecks, in case we lose our jobs. I thought RWingers loved insurance.

as some sort of hand-out.

They're stupid that way. Well, in many ways.

I've been here 4 months and I am completely aghast at her positions. Very odd indeed.

He probably pays as little as possible, hires people at will and offers nothing at all for his employees.

my Dad, that is what he did and he used to echo the guy's "Can't find good employess" whil e paying them under the table and giving them drugs to work faster

snivel about how much trouble they're having hiring employees it always turns out they're paying not only a substandard, but usually illegal wages.

So I don't even know that guy and I can say without reservation: Fuck him.

"You can't talk to liberals!" and other blather ...

I wanted to tell him, "Hey, you know the author of the book title you just quoted? You believe everything she says is true? How's that one about John Edwards being a (slur for homosexual)???"

But then, he wasn't "talking to a liberal" ... he was spouting a talking point. He didn't want to DISCUSS things with a liberal ...

I don't doubt he has work that needs to be done, but I'm getting the feeling that he's really just using his situation as a forum from which to spout his politics.

If he get find enough of "them" ( and I believe it's very clear to us as to just who he means ) then he needs to sweeten the pot. I mean, that's the "free market" as well, but he won't want to hear that now, would he?

He just sounds like a greedy right wing nasty bastard who can't get his way.

( Sorry for any perceived bluntness )

but there were plenty of "theys" being tossed around, which seem to be along the same line as the "ethnic" complaints.

I'm sure that he'd want to do like a bunch of RWers do ... hire a bunch of "lazy illegal immigrants" to do the work for shi* wages ... which, ironically, contradicts the idea that these "illegal immigrants" are lazy ...

They have to have a clean background, good drivers license, be able to get security clearances under three different government contracts and on top of that have decent knowledge of the technical field, very hard to get all those with one person. Usually look for recent/retired ex-military since if they were in this field there they have already passed federal security checks and are generally employable with us.

Even when you get people, the nature of the job, schedule, travel, stress, etc, result in turnover. It's hard to find qualified people and people willing to work like we do for $60-80k a year

or anyone with promise of learning how to cook and have had one hire in 2 months. I simply can't get quality applicants.

and benefits?

but I'm saying I haven't even had anyone to talk to. One guy who was in his 40's has had 5 jobs in as many years and quit or was fired every time for "disagreements" with managers or co-workers. A few people whose responses to questions about what they eat and cook at home indicated an inability to taste food, picky eaters don't make good cooks in my experience. I employ skilled home cooks making from scratch home cooking. I pay for skill. If someone has no experience they start lower than someone who knows how to cook. Pay increases are merit based..I have very low turnover. The average length of employment in my main kitchen is around 5 years which is insanely high in this business. I am hiring for multiple kitchens.

full time adult jobs in areas which do not require a formal education. The people I have working for me now aren't job shopping and aren't asking for raises. This is health care related and thus offers benefits, which is fairly rare in food service.

You are right, wages are very regional, this is rural, and costs of living are a fraction those believed to be universal by many DUers who are more urban. Again, there are just no applicants, I am not making offers which are being turned down.

You brought it up. What is the starting salary?

salary ranges on a public internet forum.

Again, I am saying I have not made offers. Nobody knows what the salary is because nobody has applied. I hire all ages for as little or as many hours up to 40 that they desire. I have 6 in the kitchen with an average age of 52..of coarse, that includes 2 80+ year olds. I brought up that I am not getting applicants. It is others flawed interpretation of that which lead them to believe this had anything to do with money.

who you are or who your employees are? I certainly have no idea and could not care in the least. I get that you keep saying that no one wants to work, but a fair question to ask in response to that assertion is what are you paying? You now say that "nobody as applied" but up the thread you said you had no "quality" applicants and in fact mentioned several who applied but that you rejected because of what they eat at home, or something. I admire your concern for privacy while posting anonymously but my guess is that's not the real reason you keep avoiding the answer and changing your story.

the point is that applicants...quality applicants...are not applying. And yes, the ability to know good food when you taste it is a prerequisite of a job cooking meals for 300+ people per day. If I post a decent wage in Kansas how would you know? I assure you if I posted such a wage, some know-it-all from Manhattan would be chiming in about sweatshops.

Assuming you are in fact a lawyer, and assuming I have 20 years working for defense lawyers, I should be able to walk into your firm and immediately be considered for a lawyer job right? I realize some people think cooking professionally is something anyone could do...until they eat someplace which serves bad food..

it's part-time but includes weekends, no benefits, it's a rural area and your standards are (rightly) quite high. But you just can't get applicants because people don't want to work. Got it.

just to see if you've made any misrepresentations.

Then hire new dishwashers.

If you have dishwasher/kitchen maintenance position, that is.

Start them off with basic prep tasks. They will usually be happy to escape washing dishes for an hour or two.

Speaking as a former dishwasher.

we are doing something sort of revolutionary in geriatric health care, moving away from institutional cooking back 40 years to all homemade. While it sounds simple enough, between the rigorous regulatory compliance and the generation of chicken strip and hamburger diets along with their convenience foods has made the pool of people who actually cook much smaller. Because we have a mission which includes helping the community and are non profit, we often employ people with fewer job skills in places where they fit in.

Although anyone who is eager and willing to learn, and with a healthy respect for the craft, should be given a shot, I think. The deli I was washing dishes at did pretty much everything from scratch. I helped out a lot with prep until I got promoted to do other more important things. This happens with a lot of our dishwashers.

because of the hours. I notice your ad says nights and weekends and some people just can't do that if they have children. Nothing you can do about that, though. Plus, working in a kitchen looks pretty high pressure. I know I wouldn't do well in that atmosphere.

Good luck.

I have missed you in C&B! Drop in when you can.

been thinking of updating my ongoing saga..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=41536

asking about culinary school. I immediately thought of you and your experiences and the advice you would give.

Don't be a stranger ! (as we say down here)

If I were a young kid out to see the world for adventure, I'd brush up on my culinary skills. It seems restaurants everywhere are always in need of a good cook.

and I pay for the ones who are good. The more hands on training I have to provide, the less I can pay them until their skill increases. There is a wealth of experience in this atmosphere, and anyone wanting to learn a valuable skill would be hard to find a better, cleaner environment. There are very few restaurants which actually cook anymore and even less which are 95% from scratch, raw ingredients, with emphasis on locally available products.

But then, every amateur cook probably says that!

That may be a good place to advertise. While the degree candidates might think not have cooking in a health care setting as a career aspiration, those who are taking classes because they might be interested in cooking professionally or just enjoy cooking might be good candidates.
You also could try contacting people already employed as cooks at fast food or diner type restaurants. Those places usually play poorly and some people there might want the chance to do from scratch cooking. I don't know if that type of recruiting would hurt your standing in the local business community. That would be a good way to find qualified applicants though.

it's first stanza was

Nobody really wants to work
the pay's not enough and the boss is a jerk
but work we must, in order to live
for few on this earth are willing to give

The employer might be too picky. They might be demanding skills, experience, and education that are actually not necessary to the job. They might be excluding people who they deem unemployable including people with a record or who have been out of work.
They might be paying too little. In most cases, below average for work in the area is too little. I know that someone has to be below average, but all the decent employees will apply to the better paying establishments first. If the unemployment rate is low, they will only get uninformed applicants or people who choose to apply there for other reasons.
The employer might have a reputation as a terrible place to work. Sometimes this is inherent in the work. Many people wouldn't kill chickens for $9/hour even if they would be willing to work as a cashier for the same amount. Sometimes it is because management treats people poorly.
If all three factors are at play, there is a possibility that even with high unemployment that an employer will be unable to find many workers. All the applicants that they would be willing to hire would not apply because of the poor pay and working conditions. The few that do will probably be quitting as soon as they get hired for something better. Having many workers that do this is a sure sign that an employer does not pay enough or is a horrible place to work. Places that pay well and are good places to work have low turnover.

People don't want to work for HIM. He's likely as shitty of a manager as Romney and crew.

Educated, engineers, degreed people in math and science oriented people are leaving the US in flocks, because our services are welcomed elsewhere. We aren't sitting around in a country with no health care. You want the resources of the United States of America. You claim them by denying the people that offer such things their benefits. That make us bleed as a nation.

No health care.

Why do I want to be a US citizen again? What makes us great?

What are you currently doing to retain my services. It's time for my country to ask what it can do for me, but I suspect it's too little, too late. Thankfully, I'm blond, blue eyed and can get out of this hell hole of a nation that has shown itself to be to selfish towards its people and nothing but the 99% minnow under the paw of the 1% amused cat.

The dynamics are probably what is partially responsible.

A lot of companies have delayed hiring FOREVER until it's pretty much too late. So they instantly want worker, which they of course want to instantly lay of or fire when things dip.

I think the future will have even more companies at all levels desiring to 'hire and fire at will', even for jobs that were not particularly cyclical in the past.

I know where I work (high tech, aerospace) that their wet dream is to have a VERY LOW footprint and only hire for bubbles etc. That means very little benefits (read little to NO health care costs) and a large swing in employment.

So of course when they do this, there will be complaints of 'cant get good help' etc.

(disclaimer - not saying ALL jobs, industries, etc - just an observation)

right-wingers and their "job creator" allies want the "freedom" to be able to fire people easily and/or pay them as little as possible.

but she's not the boss, she's just an employee of the business. And she said that every time her boss hires someone, that person works for only a few weeks, then quits because all they really wanted was to qualify for unemployment. (It's in NY state, so I don't know if that part about qualifying for unemployment is true.)

My niece has happily worked there for years, and even though the pay isn't spectacular, she doesn't feel it's beneath her. And since she says the boss is NOT an a-hole, that can't be it.

for unemployment if they 'quit' (except under extremely rare circumstances, like a 'constructive discharge' or what-not).

But she's there working alongside them, so I thought she must know.

be feeling a bit of resentment at those with greater job mobility than she has. Perhaps her boss isn't everything he or she is cracked up to be, either.

That's always what that statement really means.

that's why the Powerball, Megamillions, lotteries, and casinos are so popular ...

And he has to keep increasing the pay when he doesn't have qualified applicants.

He is either not paying enough, or he is a bad boss. It is probably some combination of the two.

Who wants to work for an openly right wing angry person no matter how much they pay? My dignity isn't for sale. I walked off of a job once that would offer me a very healthy salary because the owner insisted on dragging another employee in and berating him while I watched.

All I saw was "That's me, next." I found a better job 2 days later.