window dressing. I really don't find toning down of rhetoric to be helpful when the core teaching that gay people are inherently disordered stands. It is in fact hypocritical of Francis to fire a man he agrees with.
Let me know when they stop teaching bigoted shit. That would be change. The rest is just bigots trying to do some public relations work. Let me know when Francis Superstar comes to make penance and amends for the wrongs his club has done to millions of people for centuries.

I don't expect everyone to

nt

but I was raised Catholic and rejected that faith for being something I could not make a part of myself. To see the current changes looks like progress to me.

Not where we eventually want to be, but a step in that direction. I'm an ex-Catholic myself, but still have friends who want to stay and change it from within.

but I see this as progress also. The first thing that must done is to clean up language that demonizes LGBT people. Stop slamming the door in their faces and trying to separate and isolate them out. Will the catholic church ever offer the sacrament of marriage to same sex couples? Probably not. But do you care what an archaic, out of touch religion does?

Because said religion often LOBBIES government to make their beliefs into LAW. Like they did in california with Prop 8.

I care, because the belief of said religion can help disease to flourish and populations to swell which again does affect me.

I care, because people in my family believe in said religion and its teaching to them affect me.


As for it being "progress" that is open to interpretation. Is it a first step to change? Or is it a cynical ploy to stop or slow its loss of members, a deceptive effort to get people who desperately want to be a part of said church to come back without actually changing the policies that drove them away in the first place?

So I don't care what the catholic church does. Or the Baptist, Methodist, or Holy Rollers do. You have to stop fretting over what ignorant people believe. You cannot change them, because they are chrystalized out. Chrystals solidify when there is no more movement. We Buddhists don't proselytize, because it does no good if people are not ready to listen, learn, and change. The only thing that you can truly change is yourself. There are people out there, who grew up Catholics, or in some sort of church, and they have become disillusioned with their church's precepts. If they ask for Buddhist teachings, then and only then, will I tell them a just little bit. If they ask for more, they get a little bit more. But they have to ask.

I don't think that Pope Frances is a hypocrite, altho there's plenty of those in his church to go around. I liken his efforts to trying to turn a big ocean liner into port. It's a big effort and it takes time. If he can temper down the hate-mongering that his bishops and cardinal speak, well that's a good thing.

I hope a change in the Catechism is in the works, but the Church moves very slowly -- it hasn't been updated in decades.

While my sexuality isn't considered "disordered" by the Catholics, I'm a firm ally of the LGBT community and have donated money to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, who they do consider heretics. So I'm probably not all that popular with the Church either.

What a raging, bigoted asshole.

I think the conservatives in the Church think they can push this Pope around, and shape him into their "image" of what a Pope should be.

Ain't. Happening.

I predict that in the history of the Church, Pope Francis will be seen along with John XXIII as one of the most influential popes ever. Francis is truly the "fresh air" that John promised.

It is unrealistic to expect him to suddenly reverse the Church's position on gay marriage or other issues involving sexuality and reproduction. The Church changes slowly and of course that is frustrating for many people, but I do think that he is a compassionate man. He has stood up for the poor and denounced the evils of unregulated capitalism. That is not trivial, especially in the context of the austerity programs that have caused a lot of suffering within the Euro zone.

Francis believes marriage equality is evil. His words.

Burke has that old cobwebby institutional agenda -- all bigotry and no inclusion.

This new Pope was right to take him down a notch or two.

"how dare they do something we agree with! they're just using it to cover up their plans for a new St. Bartholomew's Day as we speak!"

He never gave away no free food or heath care, either!

I don't know what has gotten into this Pope!

<\SnarkOff>

He was the Oprah of the 1st century C.E.

Maybe Scalia, too, but that is not as strong a case for impeachment as Thomas's. It's outrageous.

Actually, not funny. Hypocritical is more like it. If Francis is firing people for anti-gay comments then he ought to resign himself. After all, he called marriage equality "evil", said adoption by gay couples was "child abuse", that same-sex marriage would destroy families and that the fight against it is a Holy War.

Pot, meet kettle.

Lately I've been reading about Burke and some of the comments he's made regarding the Pope. I know that some of his comments were so full of vitriol that I thought there had to be something personal going on -- well, either that or Burke was exhibiting some signs of Alzheimers. I'm not a Catholic but wondered if anyone else noticed the particularly heated nature of this feud.

People are not aware of just how liberal the bishops were who attended the Vatican II that was called into session by Pope John XXII. There was need and desire for extensive changes regarding the church's sexual teachings. However, with the death of John the reigns passed to Paul VI and he was the epitome Macbethian indecision. The conservatives, most especially the future John Paul II' convinced him to reinforce the traditional teaching in fear that if the church reversed itself that the certitude of the popes teaching would be lost. When he became pope, he attempted to reverse the clock and appointed ultra-conservatives to every position of authority. Went are far as recognizing the radical Opus Dei extremists regarding them as replacement for the Jesuits who had been the papacy's shock troops for centuries until the massive awakening for the need for dramatic changes during Vatican II. This pope has a Herculean task confronting him to reverse the damage that the John Paul II inflicted on the church in his determination to impose teaching that were rejected by millions of church members, many who voted with their feet. The upheaval about the welcoming homosexuals into the church is only the tip of the iceberg and in comparison to other major issues is the proverbial "tempest in a teapot" to what could erupt. These issues could include ordination of women, recognition of same sex marriage, the entirety of the church's sexual teachings, cohabitation before marriage, premarital sexual practices, etc.

Oh yeah? Let me know when Francis changes anything else in the Catholic church.

Oh yeah? Let me know when Francis changes anything else in the Catholic church.

Oh yeah? Let me know when Francis changes anything else in the Catholic church.

Oh yeah? Let me know when Francis changes anything else in the Catholic church.

Oh yeah? Let me know when Francis changes anything else in the Catholic church.

...

Something that actually affects the lives of LGBTs would be great.

they do every time but that only makes the calls louder (or, much worse, mainstreamers start getting blamed as "providing cover" for the turrsts--after the entire ulema of a region denounce them, ususally)

That's great!

The problem is that it's really hard to bring the Church forward. He's got more power than a President (Obama's not demoting John Roberts any time soon, for instance) but there are still limitations. It's quite clear that what happened this weeks is that Francis' progressive allies attempted to pass a revolutionary document that opened the doors of the Church towards accepting gay people, and the conservatives circled their wagons and voted it down.

We'll see if the the Synod next year changes things. Fortunately Francis doesn't have to deal with midterms elections to prevent him from getting new and better people in place: he can put them in place himself.

So saith this pagan.