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LuckyTheDog

(6,837 posts)
Sat Oct 18, 2014, 04:58 PM Oct 2014

Saskia Vermeylen: Who owns the moon?

Eventually, extraterrestrial sovereignty and property rights will become a huge issue. We need to start thinking this through now.

When the US was confronted with this query in the early 1950s, it lobbied for the recognition of outer space as a global commons. The Soviet Union was difficult to infiltrate to gather intelligence, so open access to Soviet air space was crucial for the US during the Cold War. Perceiving outer space as a commons was also another way of preventing national sovereignty in space. But neither the USSR nor the US was keen to fight out the Cold War on yet another front. Geopolitics dictated the decision to treat outer space as being non-appropriable.

This principle can be found back in Article II of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty which clearly forbids “national appropriation by claims of sovereignty, means of use or occupation by any other means”. It has been widely accepted: no one complains the various moon landings or satellites in space have infringed their sovereignty.

However, legal commentators disagree over whether this prohibition is also valid for private appropriation. Some space lawyers have argued for the recognition of real property rights on the basis of jurisdiction rather than territorial sovereignty.

Historical records of the Space Treaty negotiations clearly indicate people were against private appropriations at the time, but an explicit prohibition never made it into Article II. Lessons have been learned from this omission and the ban was far more explicit in the subsequent Moon Agreement of 1979. However only 16 countries signed the agreement, none of which were involved in manned space exploration, leaving it somewhat meaningless as an international standard.

MORE HERE: http://wonkynewsnerd.com/saskia-vermeylen-owns-moon/


16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Saskia Vermeylen: Who owns the moon? (Original Post) LuckyTheDog Oct 2014 OP
America does. zappaman Oct 2014 #1
Specifically, Herman Muenster pinboy3niner Oct 2014 #2
The 1% of the 1%. n/t Silent3 Oct 2014 #3
The Man Who Sold The Moon hobbit709 Oct 2014 #4
First thing that came to mind! csziggy Oct 2014 #16
Interesting and important questions. Warren DeMontague Oct 2014 #5
+1 This is just another thing for politicians to fight over... SomethingFishy Oct 2014 #6
I don't mean to brag, but I do. Buns_of_Fire Oct 2014 #7
I honestly LOL'ed KittyWampus Oct 2014 #9
In a peculiar way it seems to me that the Moon owns US. KittyWampus Oct 2014 #8
I do, just so you know shenmue Oct 2014 #10
This is making me laugh my ass off!!! Avalux Oct 2014 #11
Who'll get the McDonalds and Motel 6 franchises? Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #12
God does, of course. LuvNewcastle Oct 2014 #13
Whoever can defend her owns her. AngryAmish Oct 2014 #14
A humanoid race of telepathic nudists, of course. We have documentation too. hunter Oct 2014 #15

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
16. First thing that came to mind!
Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:17 AM
Oct 2014
Harriman seeks to avoid government ownership of the Moon. As it passes directly overhead only in a narrow band north and south of the equator, he uses a legal principle that states that property rights extend to infinity above a land parcel. On that basis, Mexico, Central and parts of South America, and other countries in those latitudes around the world, have a claim on the Moon. The United States also has a claim due to Florida and Texas. By arranging for many countries to assert their rights Harriman persuades the United Nations to, as a compromise, assign management of the Moon to his company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon#Plot


The other aspect is that the only ones who will really own the Moon are the ones who manage to take possession. In 1494 the Treaty of Tordesillas tried to split the Americas between Spain and Portugal along an arbitrary line, ignoring not only the rights of natives already living there, but also ignoring the interests of other countries willing to invade the "New World." The treaty didn't last thirty years.

In practice, the land ended up belonging to those who could hold it, no matter what historical rights might have existed if the Europeans had been willing to accept any claims of the Native Americans who remained after the plagues from the Old World and the extermination by the invaders.

I expect that if we ever get around to colonizing the Moon or Mars, while governments or corporations on Earth may try to take the territory, the people who actually live on those places will have the ultimate claims on it. (Now thinking about "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress"!)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
5. Interesting and important questions.
Sat Oct 18, 2014, 05:26 PM
Oct 2014

Unfortunately I have little faith in our political systems and leaders to be remotely capable of getting in front of this stuff. I suspect the explorers and technologists will lead the way.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
6. +1 This is just another thing for politicians to fight over...
Sat Oct 18, 2014, 06:37 PM
Oct 2014

Like I give a shit who "owns" the moon.

Looking forward to Christopher Nolans Interstellar. Seems to be about the very exploration you are talking about...

Buns_of_Fire

(17,180 posts)
7. I don't mean to brag, but I do.
Sat Oct 18, 2014, 06:57 PM
Oct 2014

The guy at 54th and Broadway also tried to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge, but I was too smart to fall for THAT one. Yup, yup.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
11. This is making me laugh my ass off!!!
Sat Oct 18, 2014, 08:27 PM
Oct 2014

How silly of us humans think a person or a group can actually own the moon. We'll all be gone and the moon will still be there. Unless someone blows it up before we go extinct.

hunter

(38,316 posts)
15. A humanoid race of telepathic nudists, of course. We have documentation too.
Sat Oct 18, 2014, 11:55 PM
Oct 2014


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_on_the_Moon


Seriously, I don't believe ownership of the moon will ever be a meaningful question. We will either be extinct as a space faring civilization, or we will have organized our society in cooperative ways such that national territories and traditional "property rights" no longer exist.

From the looks of things now, we are not going to get our shit together enough to have any significant human presence in space before the sky falls in on us.

We seem to have forgotten that nature can still kick humanity's ass. Increasingly, people will have plenty enough trouble surviving on earth to go looking for greater troubles on the moon.

When and if "we" become a space faring civilization, I don't think space travelers will be recognizably human. We will have adapted ourselves to the harsh environment of space, or passed on our inquisitive nature to our intellectual children, science fiction androids if you wish, who will not be human in any biological way.

It will suck to be us if these technologies are a consequence of war.



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2317225


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