General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMeanwhile in England: 0 fatalities by cop in the last 2 years. 4 total shootings.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/18/1336354/-Yes-it-s-true-Police-only-shot-four-people-and-nobody-died-in-all-of-England-the-past-two-years#
Are we feeling safer yet?
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)ncjustice80
(948 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)There's a theme there. What could it possibly be?
Chakab
(1,727 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Because "your dead kids don't trump my rights" is the only thing they think about.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)the militias or in other words get them away from the civilians nearly 100% almost the same for the police as there are other options.
However to do that would require an amendment to the Constitution that specifically says that so the courts cant say it doesnt.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Man wrote those words, man can reinterpret them for the modern age. That getting guns away from citizens requires a Constitutional amendment is just another lie that the media have bought into, us intelligent and sensible folks do not have to make the purchase.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)an amendment to the Constitution that is clear and concise cant.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Oktober
(1,488 posts)sarisataka
(18,656 posts)To the 2nd amendment and fuck the 4th and 5th to round up the guns it is useful to fuck the 1st and 6th to shut up any whiners.
Don't worry, it's all for the public good and no one will ever trample your rights - without good reason...
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)You're talking a few hundred billion dollars just to buy back the guns at market value like Australia did. Let alone the administrative and enforcement burden and costs.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)and their military gear.
Use the metal and recast statues in every main square of every major city as a testament to the bygone Orwellian folly of more guns means more security.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)At least, a Democratic society cannot do so...
And due process alone would require a court ruling for each person, another extremely expensive proposition.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I keep hearing that.
People are sure paranoid as most people in the US are not armed, but facts do not seem to count.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)and now gun ownership is the same as it was then. Good thing to be firearms manufacturer when the government make a shortage to fill.
In the 15 years since Martin Bryant killed 35 people at the popular Tasmanian tourist site, the flow of firearms into Australia has eclipsed the amount recovered in the government funded buy-back scheme.
Last financial year alone Australians imported more than 85,000 firearms, including 44,000 rifles, 12,000 shotguns and nearly 20,000 handguns, and research by Radio Nationals Background Briefing program has revealed a resurging interest in guns and hunting.
I would say about 80 per cent of our membership are hunters, Tim Bannister, from the 134,000-strong Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (SSAA), said.
Weve seen a change of the demographic. So were seeing younger members, were seeing women. Once upon a time it was perhaps older men, but now were seeing a real mix, which is really good.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-12/gun-ownership-on-the-rise/3662504
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)85,000 X 365 = 31,025,000 way off, where did you get this number, may I ask? Do you have a link to the source data?
The NICS Section processed 2,596,745 of the total 7,360,400 firearms and explosives transactions conducted via the Internet-based NICS E-Check. The amount of transactions processed in 2013 is a 66.25 percent increase over those processed in 2012.
2013 FBI data
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/2013-operations-report
Remember, 98,688 of the total 7,360,400 were for explosives and should not be counted as a firearm transaction. That leaves 7,261,712 total NICS transactions that are required for new firearm purchase. 88,203 were denied via the NICS check. that leaves 7,173,509 total passed transactions but even then it does not mean a firearm was purchased, just the check was made. So your numbers are just plain wrong and you should admit the fact that you are putting out bad information.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)They, like we do in the Fifth Amendment, have a Constitutional prohibition on taking private property without just compensation. Now, Australia also only had about 1 Million guns to buy. We have 310 times that amount at current estimates. They did not have a second amendment, so the confiscation laws were legal.
What you are calling for is highly illegal. You want to take property without compensation. What a horrible precedent that would be! I'm sure the 1% is just salivating at the thought of taking even more from the working class.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)a well regulated civilian militia under government control.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)It doesn't matter if you make it legal or not. If it was legal before, you cannot dispossess people without just compensation.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Not the real one, and it frightens me that some would be so loose with rights. What rights do others want to take that would be next.
Initech
(100,079 posts)Conservatives want a country where everyone is armed to the teeth, everyone is ultra right religious, and no one is in charge.
pa28
(6,145 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)Case closed.
TrollBuster9090
(5,954 posts)Having lived in London, the ethnicities are as mixed as they are in any American city.
So, WHY does England have fewer shootings? Because they have a single police force that is professionally trained, and whose training and behavior is held to account by a national authority.
That, as opposed to a thousand little police forces scattered all over the country, many of which are run by people who are elected by local voters who actually score their job success ostensibly on how many 'crooks' they lock up or shoot. (Or at least on how many people who LOOK like 'crooks,' and therefore probably ARE crooks.)
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Not to mention much better health and mental care.
EEO
(1,620 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)Whistleblower Reveals California Cops Get Shooting Tattoos To Celebrate Their Kills
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025660395
either by a psychopath or sociopath.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)If you have lots of guns, you are going to have lots of shootings, as surely as autumn follows summer.
You won't be able to fix this problem until you repeal the 2nd - which is to say, ever.
You could probably ameliorate it somewhat, though.
Logical
(22,457 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)British cops are not killing British citizens because, unlike America, there are
a) not as many British citizens trying to kill other British citizens, and
b) not as many British citizens trying to kill cops
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)My 1926 bolt action rifle?
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Now I see you are running away from it and will not answer a simple question.
I will ask it again
Is my 1926 bolt action rifle what you say "military grade"? Are you afraid of it?
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Cops killed per year in the US
2007 - 191
2008 - 147
2009 - 125
2010 - 161
2011 - 171
2012 - 122
2013 - 100
653 homicides in the UK in 2012, a rate of 1.0 per 100,000. 14,827 in the US, a rate of 4.6 per 100,000.
Given that even the currently armed cops are getting killed, does it make sense to have them unilaterally disarm? And try to chase after armed robbers and murderers carrying only billy clubs?
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)of course the cops and the good folks all are felling safer because they are safer.
ZERO cops killed. The evidence is factual and complete. The debate is over. End of story. I rest my case.
Smart in crime works better than tough on crime.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)For one thing, the good folks are safer because they simply have a lower homicide rate. You may want to harp about how scared you are of cops. I tend to be more scared of the thugs who are not paid to protect me, but are instead "self employed".
And police in England DO have guns, and use them too.
"In the year 201112, there were 6,756 Authorised Firearms Officers, 12,550 police operations in which firearms were authorised throughout England and Wales and 5 incidents where conventional firearms were used.[2]
Since 2004, police forces have increasingly been issuing Tasers to Authorised Firearms Officers[3] for use against armed assailants. Tasers are considered by the authorities to be a non-lethal alternative to firearms."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)civilian hands, there is no logical response to their restriction.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)That UK police have over a billion gazillion weapons
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Totally different culture. Those police also have weapons. I am sure their officers are better trained and there is just a tiny number required compared to the USA and its 300+ million people.
I guess you surrender the truth for not answering my question in post #40 about where you came up with your numbers.
Forgot to answer my question in #32 also, "Is my 1926 bolt action rifle considered military grade" and what is your definition of that?
I made mine up in the post you are referring to, did you make up the numbers you stated?
tblue37
(65,393 posts)teeth population to cause cops to suffer pants-pi**ing fear every time they interact with the public.
pa28
(6,145 posts)Maybe that cop should find a new job. Like a meter reader or oceanographer.
Something that doesn't involve authority and guns.