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el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 01:06 PM Oct 2014

Anita Sarkeesian points out an obvious and undeniable truth, receives death threats.

Ms. Sarkeesian pointed out that there might be some link between mass shootings and our cultural definition of masculinity, based on the fact that the vast majority of mass shootings are committed by white males.

Trigger warning - here's the link to the e-mails to the tweets she received which are ugly and nasty.

Bryant

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Anita Sarkeesian points out an obvious and undeniable truth, receives death threats. (Original Post) el_bryanto Oct 2014 OP
Anita Sarkeesian points out an obvious and undeniable truth... Kalidurga Oct 2014 #1
yep - that's another way to put it. nt el_bryanto Oct 2014 #2
Are any of the threats actionable? Some would appear to be. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2014 #3
I don't know about 'undeniable truth' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #4
after reading those responses demigoddess Oct 2014 #5
The vast majority of shootings are committed by white males LittleBlue Oct 2014 #6
Yeah you are right - she definitely deserves death threats. thanks for turning me around on this.nt el_bryanto Oct 2014 #7
Heh! Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #8
Naw. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #10
I doubt that was his real point. nt AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #9
What was his real point? White male culture is fine and dandy? What's your argument? nt el_bryanto Oct 2014 #11
My guess is the point is that the problem isn't white males mythology Oct 2014 #13
My argument, since you asked for it. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #19
Math... Oktober Oct 2014 #12
I have absolutely no interest in changing your opinion LittleBlue Oct 2014 #17
I'm almost 100% sure he was being sarcastic. closeupready Oct 2014 #31
science states testosterone does not make men more aggressive. myth seabeyond Oct 2014 #24
Thanks for that. yep, I can't help it, it's my testerone making me do it!/say it! LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #32
lol. i like your post. and with what you say, that is exactly what this woman is talking about seabeyond Oct 2014 #34
Like it or not, this is a problem that we as men need to own. chrisa Oct 2014 #14
perfect chrisa. thank you. i agree. i also went away form this stereotype, raising my boys. seabeyond Oct 2014 #22
an obvious truth? hfojvt Oct 2014 #15
Well one difference is that the US culture of masculinity is a lot more murderous. nt el_bryanto Oct 2014 #18
We're not the only ones, unfortunately. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #21
nice little bit of circular reasoning hfojvt Oct 2014 #23
You are being deliberately obtuse. closeupready Oct 2014 #29
Every tweet proves her right whatchamacallit Oct 2014 #16
and many posts here also noiretextatique Oct 2014 #28
i agree with her. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #20
The bigger issue is what's being done about it. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2014 #25
In this case, it's all on Twitter... Lancero Oct 2014 #26
we need specific new laws addressing internet. my son is going into law, and we were seabeyond Oct 2014 #33
Time and again I bring this up - nobody ever wants to talk about it. closeupready Oct 2014 #27
well, they are most cerrtainly proving her point noiretextatique Oct 2014 #30

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
1. Anita Sarkeesian points out an obvious and undeniable truth...
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 01:13 PM
Oct 2014

and people send her death threats to prove her point.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
3. Are any of the threats actionable? Some would appear to be.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 01:21 PM
Oct 2014

Isn't making terroristic threats a crime?

And what happened with that Utah State threat, where the guy threatened mass murder?

In this day of sophisticated surveillance, I find it hard to imagine that law enforcement cannot find the senders of the threats. What's going on with this?

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
6. The vast majority of shootings are committed by white males
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 02:02 PM
Oct 2014

Because they have this thing called testosterone, which makes them more aggressive and less mindful of the consequences. Which is why throughout history, whether it's guns, swords, fists or footballs, they've been more violent than women.

As for being white, just lol

While it it not literally true that every single mass shooter in history has been male, we are talking about an almost exclusively male club: one recent attempt at crunching the numbers found that 97% of school shooters have been male, and 79% of them white. (The Maryville shooter was Native American.)


79% white? Those whites, amirite? Oh wait

White alone, percent, 2013 (a) 77.7%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

According to the Census Bureau, 77.7% of the US population is white. Which is declining. Which probably explains the 1% difference. Herp derp.
 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
13. My guess is the point is that the problem isn't white males
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 03:33 PM
Oct 2014

The numbers suggest that the problem is distributed far more racially equally than thought. The problem is very gender aligned, but if you say that mass shootings are a white male problem culturally, you're not seeing the whole problem.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
19. My argument, since you asked for it.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 04:39 PM
Oct 2014

There is a very real problem with a few million out-and-out misogynists (vocal or undercover, doesn't matter) causing shitloads of problems for everyone else, especially women. There's also a problem with gun culture, too.

But here's the thing: it's not just a white guy problem......it's a guy problem, period.

So, okay, are you satisfied now?

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
17. I have absolutely no interest in changing your opinion
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 03:44 PM
Oct 2014

Your headline states this truthiness as self-evident, which I thought needed a thorough debunking.

Yeah you are right - she definitely deserves death threats.


Interesting opinion you have. I advocate debate, so I'll disagree with you once again.
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
24. science states testosterone does not make men more aggressive. myth
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 04:55 PM
Oct 2014
Testosterone does not induce aggression, study shows

Fairer with testosterone
The study's results, however, contradict this view sharply. Test subjects with an artificially enhanced testosterone level generally made better, fairer offers than those who received placebos, thus reducing the risk of a rejection of their offer to a minimum. "The preconception that testosterone only causes aggressive or egoistic behavior in humans is thus clearly refuted," sums up Eisenegger. Instead, the findings suggest that the hormone increases the sensitivity for status. For animal species with relatively simple social systems, an increased awareness for status may express itself in aggressiveness. "In the socially complex human environment, pro-social behavior secures status, and not aggression," surmises study co-author Michael Naef from Royal Holloway London. "The interplay between testosterone and the socially differentiated environment of humans, and not testosterone itself, probably causes fair or aggressive behavior."

Moreover the study shows that the popular wisdom that the hormone causes aggression is apparently deeply entrenched: those test subjects who believed they had received the testosterone compound and not the placebo stood out with their conspicuously unfair offers. It is possible that these persons exploited the popular wisdom to legitimate their unfair actions. Economist Michael Naef states: "It appears that it is not testosterone itself that induces aggressiveness, but rather the myth surrounding the hormone. In a society where qualities and manners of behavior are increasingly traced to biological causes and thereby partly legitimated, this should make us sit up and take notice." The study clearly demonstrates the influence of both social as well as biological factors on human behavior.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091208132241.htm


"Popular perceptions of the effect of testosterone on 'manly' behavior are inaccurate," Pennsylvania State University researchers concluded in a recent study. "We need to move away from such simplistic notions by treating testosterone as one component along with other physiological, psychological and sociological variables in interactive and reciprocal models of behavior."

In other words, there's a lot more going on here than one hormone making guys act like jerks in an effort to impress the ladies.

*

"'Testosterone poisoning,' now part of the language is a popular explanation for excessive 'manly' behaviors such as boasting, violence and pugnaciousness," the Penn State researchers concluded in their study. But "in fact there is little empirical support for these popular assertions.

"It is already clear that there is no simple one-to-one relationship between testosterone and machoism or aggressiveness or sexuality."

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/testosterone-male-hormone-makes-guys-tough-makes-honest/story?id=17493592


there is also an article in mens group about it.

so, lets quit using this as an excuse for violent behavior.
 

LawDeeDah

(1,596 posts)
32. Thanks for that. yep, I can't help it, it's my testerone making me do it!/say it!
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:25 PM
Oct 2014

This is a very common excuse and like you say, it's bullshit, it's just a way to duck responsibility. I have no idea why some men think being out of control either by testerone or their sex drive, is somehow a great thing and why some women and mothers/wives/sis etc., accept this stupidity.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
34. lol. i like your post. and with what you say, that is exactly what this woman is talking about
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:29 PM
Oct 2014

the culture of masculinity. since the majority of men are not controlled in anger and violence, nor rape, we pretty much have the reality of the situation. but, when it behooves them to hold it up as a man card, too many men are tempted.

no, it is not a complement.

do we hear us go around talking about estrogen all the fuckin time? women, controlled by your estrogen again. i tell ya.

thanks for your post.

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
14. Like it or not, this is a problem that we as men need to own.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 03:36 PM
Oct 2014

How often do you see women / girls so on mass shootings? It never happens.

To say mass shootings are just the spawn of "crazy people" enables them to happen. Mass shootings come from the toxic masculinity in our culture that teaches that might is right, getting revenge makes you a man, and women are objects for the taking. We don't teach men to work things out and seek out help / support. That's "weak." Instead, we teach them to explode at the drop of a hat and lash out violently.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
22. perfect chrisa. thank you. i agree. i also went away form this stereotype, raising my boys.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 04:44 PM
Oct 2014

making them aware, and having discussions. it is not too too hard walking away from this. it does behoove our men. it is a little more challenging in the upper teens lower twenties, i see. the pressure is so damn hard, demanding the boys hold up their man card.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
15. an obvious truth?
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 03:41 PM
Oct 2014

Then what IS our "cultural definition of masculinity"? And how does this definition differ from that of, say, Canada?

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
21. We're not the only ones, unfortunately.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 04:43 PM
Oct 2014

Saudi Arabia, for examples, is one of THE worst places to be a woman right now. So is China. So, too, are Iran and North Korea, and probably much of the rest of the third world as well. And no doubt there's guys out there who'd love to bring us down to that exact level(all while the racist hypocrites amongst them mutter and mumble about "white" "superiority", etc.).

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
23. nice little bit of circular reasoning
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 04:44 PM
Oct 2014

"violence comes from the US culture of masculinity"

Q: what is the US culture of masculinity?

A: It is violent.

Meaning she has said nothing, but we are supposed to applaud because she is attacking males.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
29. You are being deliberately obtuse.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:18 PM
Oct 2014

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our American culture is itself violent, and the favored gender conforms to cultural stereotypes that manifest this underlying worship of violence.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
28. and many posts here also
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:18 PM
Oct 2014

the vast majority of american mass shooters are white and male. just look at how some are furiously trying to deny that in this thread. pathetic.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
25. The bigger issue is what's being done about it.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:06 PM
Oct 2014

I asked some questions up thread and got crickets.

Calling people ugly names is one thing, but making death threats or threats of physical attack is a crime, isn't it?

Has she gone to the police? Have the police done anything?

At Utah State, there was a mass murder threat. What happened to that?

I find it hard to believe that in this day and age, the authorities can't find out who is tweeting death threats. It seems like a few exemplary prosecutions might make a difference.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
33. we need specific new laws addressing internet. my son is going into law, and we were
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:27 PM
Oct 2014

recently having conversation saying this is an up and coming field in law that is very active now.

we need laws.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
27. Time and again I bring this up - nobody ever wants to talk about it.
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:16 PM
Oct 2014

I'm glad she knows how to raise the question in a way that is generating discussion. K&R

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
30. well, they are most cerrtainly proving her point
Mon Oct 27, 2014, 05:19 PM
Oct 2014

and i have no doubt most of them are males, and probably white males.

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