General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBefore the "10 Hours" video -- Street Harrassment caught on camera
Bliss and Hollaback aren't the first to document street harrassment. Rob Bliss, who made the most recent video admits to not doing much research:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2014/10/29/the-story-behind-that-10-hours-of-walking-in-nyc-viral-street-harassment-video/?tid=collaborative_1.0_strip_1
Fact is there have been MANY videos like this made before Bliss did his. Hundreds. Not sure why Bliss's got so much more attention than most of the prior ones. Perhaps because it is edited down to something short which condenses all the remarks.
Minnesota - Cards project -- many videos. A woman in MN videos and hands cards to her harrassers while confronting them about their behavior. This one has 750,000 views:
From the UK:
In Egypt:
"Stop Telling Women to Smile" by Tatyana Fazlalizadeh
And finally, a link to the cards against harrassment site:
http://www.cardsagainstharassment.com/cards.html
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Somebody who says "chicks are hot" to somebody else, or to himself is a "harrasser". Because he, like, went out of his way to get in somebody's face or something.
Looking at the other video, I wonder how they counted the "catcalls".
There are a number of people who just gave sort of standard greetings.
"How are you doing?"
"Have a nice day."
"God bless you."
Are those really "catcalls" or "harrassment"?
I would not be offended if people said that to me when I was walking. In fact, I think that strangers often will do that - even to me. And I would think a reasonable response would be to acknowledge them as well with a short reply
"not bad"
"thanks"
"thanks"
But it must be some sort of severe hardship to expect a goddess to acknowledge the slugs she walks by.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)asking you "How are you doing?" was that he was expressing sexual interest in you and that ANY answer you gave back to him would encourage him to continue, how would you react?
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)or egotism.
Not sure about NYC, but most of the time, in public, in the day time, it's OK to be polite to strangers. Treat them like they are fellow human beings.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)Is the half-drunk at noon guy saying "Minnesota chicks are HOT!" to a lone woman polite? Is he treating HER like a human being?
ecstatic
(32,737 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"But it must be some sort of severe hardship to expect a goddess to acknowledge..."
No more and no less a severe hardship than it is for a person to mind their own...
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Either they do or they don't. I'm guessing you'd remember it if people said these things to you multiple times a day as you walked from your car to your office, took the bus to work, or did whatever you do during your day.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)because it is too normal to remember.
But even in this city of 35-50,000, after ten years, probably most of the people I am seeing on a given day, are not really "strangers". They are people I have seen 100 times in the last decade.
Probably usually we just nod or wave at each other. Speaking would requite people to get off their cell phones.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)talking about. Thanks for clearing that up!
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)That's nice. Many women say otherwise. They're also under no obligation to acknowledge anything that's said to them, and to imply that they're being rude for not doing so is a great way to set them up as the bad guy.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)That is true. Nobody on this planet is required to be a decent human being.
But from where I sit
saying "have a nice day" to somebody is NOT rude
walking right by somebody without even a wave - is.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bitter toward women? Seriously- do you ever read your posts before hitting that button, like.... ever?
chowder66
(9,086 posts)I was raised to never talk to strangers and I have always gone against that when I deem a situation to be harmless, sometimes to my own detriment.
This is only my opinion based on years of experience beginning when I was a pre-teen;
Women and girls learn and come to know the difference between catcalls and genuine greetings.
Opening ourselves up to what may seem like an honest greeting when we sense that it is not... validates these men to use their "greetings" and potentially leads them t assume that they are welcome to insert themselves into womens' lives (as though it's their right).
They do NOT know us and as you can see in many cases if you (the woman) are busy or not feeling "friendly enough" for them they continue to make statements to make us uncomfortable because "they" feel slighted. Funny how it's all about the mans greeting and the mans feelings if not responded to.
Good Morning, Hello, etc is fine in most respects if that person isn't lingering, or saying it with what feels like a completely unknown reason (getting no eye contact from the woman or the woman is lost in thought and not at all filtering in the "catcalling man" before he starts to beckon).
If there is interaction of any kind between two people (again, eye contact is typically a good start, smile or acknowledgement) then all sorts of greetings and good wishes are welcome and occur multiple times a day.
When these guys do it to 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 year old girls, does that really sound okay, would you be okay as a father knowing that your 11 year old daughter and her friend/friends were walking home from school or from a friends house and grown men were trying to insert themselves in their lives, acting as if they knew them? Hell I'm pretty sure dads would be pretty damn pissed if it was teenage boys doing this to their daughters let alone grown men. Do they really sound so honestly interested in your "day"?
It starts early and we develop a sense of what is dangerous, uncomfortable, honest or just plain old annoying. It's one aspect of "street-smarts".
We do not have an obligation to reciprocate if we are unsure or sure of anyones intentions. No one does, not even you. And if someone does not like it then they need to self-explore and figure that out for themselves. I urge anyone who is not good with rejection to work on it because once you have figured it out it's as if a whole new world has opened up. But that doesn't mean it still doesn't sting, it just doesn't sting for long.
I will give you this though; Because it is so common for women to deal with catcalls.... there are going to be times that we may actually "snub/ignore/miss" a genuine greeting and most likely we are going to know this a bit later in that day and feel shitty about it for a while. We may miss it completely and never reflect on it but this is not what our lives are lived for.
We've been conditioned to make our "being" uninviting (no eye contact/no responsiveness) when doing the most mundane things like walking somewhere. It happens, we miss a genuine greeting, and it's because more than a few rotten apples have spoiled the whole barrel and we do NOT expect men to get this. We just take it on ourselves. So to those men who we have ignored when you were genuinely greeting us, sorry. It's not you, it's many of your brothers that we encounter..... and a woman's self-protection mechanism.
VScott
(774 posts)First was the white guy walking down the street, now this...
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Can we haz rage? Yeah, that's all it is. Viral videos and viral rage, make us feel relevant in a time when we are increasingly irrelevant.