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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMichael Moore Defends Bill Maher Amid Uproar Over Maher's Statements on Islam and Muslim World
But if you're a Dutch filmmaker who makes a movie about violence against women in some Islamic countries, or if you're a Danish cartoonist who draws an image making fun of the Prophet -- well, you are then either shot to death or you are now in hiding.
So if Bill is taking the same exact position liberals usually take whenever we see free speech being threatened, or women being abused or people forced to submit to fundamentalist dictates, why then is he facing any criticism for speaking out against these wrongs? When Christians do these things we speak up -- loudly. So why not speak out when Muslims do it? 'Cause it's none of our business? Isn't it?
I think I may have a couple answers as to why some liberals are uncomfortable with Bill's humor when it comes to Islam:
1. We have witnessed, since 9/11, Arabs and Muslims in this country undergoing huge amounts of prejudice, bigotry and sometimes outright violence. This sickens us (as I know it does Bill). So we are extra sensitive to what sounds like, as it goes through the liberal filter in our ears, any "anti-Arab" comments. We don't want to hear anything even remotely anti-Muslim. But we have to be careful that this doesn't stop us from listening to legitimate criticisms about things that go on in the Muslim world. I just think that, due to our illegal actions (invasions) of the past decade, our government lacks any moral authority on this and should be forbidden from any attempts to "fix" those problems.
2. Liberals are intensely fed up with these two wars against mostly Muslim populations (not to mention the indiscriminate drone strikes on at least four other nations). And now the party that won the elections last Tuesday would like a war with Iran. An ignorant American public was manipulated with fear and lies to start and maintain the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars -- and that manipulation continues today in order to justify things like the mass spying by the NSA on our entire citizenry. When the Cold War ended (25 years ago today in Berlin), the defense industry went berserk with worry that their salad days were over. A new enemy was needed. Arab terrorists fit the bill perfectly! Not only has the defense industry since thrived, a whole new fake industry has arisen -- the Homeland Security behemoth. As our infrastructure, our freedoms and our middle class vaporize, billions are spent as a grossly out-of-proportion response to a few shitty disasters.
full: http://www.alternet.org/media/michael-moores-defense-bill-maher-over-his-controversial-comments?paging=off
So the bottom line is: What is Islamophobia, and what is legitimate criticism of Islam? I think a major error by left wing commentators is to play the Islamophobia card - to steal the right wing "race card" trope - so often they shut down legitimate criticism of the religion. Depending on their worldview, anyone can move the goalposts of what kind of criticism of religion they consider legitimate. In a perfect world, religious belief would co-exist civilly with criticism of religion, and people would judge religious belief or the lack thereof logically instead of ad populum.
I think people turn to conservatism because they feel liberalism is about censoring dissent and that conservatism is willing to accommodate bigotry in the name of being "politically incorrect"/daring/free-thinking/what say them.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)that Bill Maher crossed. It's not so much a matter of legitimate vs. illegitimate criticism. It's about the fact that it has become acceptable to use a particular religion as an accusation in order to discredit a president. The way Maher talked about Islam reinforces the legitimacy of using what is most often a peaceful religion as an accusation\insult.
Discussing the numbers does not work in the entertainment media. It should be left to more serious, formal environments. That infotainment has taken over, and politics is used to elicit outrage for entertainment, does not justify participation.
There are some concepts that too many USAers can not handle well.
"I think people turn to conservatism because they feel liberalism is about censoring dissent and that conservatism is willing to accommodate bigotry in the name of being "politically incorrect"/daring/free-thinking/what say them."
I think some people are confused about free speech and the idea of "political correctness." The idea of political correctness is used to try to discredit even the most justified criticism. Obviously, a person can say whatever they want, but there is no state sponsored imposition on freedom of speech when people criticize the implications and effects of that speech. Bill Maher knows what the most hateful people hear when he uses numbers to try to discredit a religion.
To use the possibility that someone may worship differently from the majority as an insult and even a reason to not elect someone president is offensive to me and many others. To participate is to perpetuate that religious bigotry the same way that dog whistles and racist jokes perpetuate racism.
He knows better and he knows how his rhetoric will be received by those who seek to discredit even the most peaceful observers.
A Muslim friend once asked me to please read the Koran because he wanted me to know that the things people were saying about him were not true. I told him I was on his side and that I know he's not a terrorists.
No one should have to prove that they do not have bad intentions.
MindMover
(5,016 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)and talk to them and get to know where they are coming from.
I'm sure they can find common ground.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Two weeks ago on Bill's HBO show, he had on the wonderful Palestinian writer Rula Jebreal. They had a good and testy back and forth (Bill often has Muslims who disagree with him on his show, like the great Ben al-Afleck).
Mr Maher blames 1.6 billion people for each and every act of any individual or group associated with that religion, which IMO is pretty much the same as using gang violence to illustrate Black Americans
That said Islam has become the PC way for would be liberals to vent their bigotry and still appear to be liberal
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Wow!
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Of course , Islam is a religion of peace.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)kid glove reactions. " Arabs and Muslims in this country undergoing huge amounts of prejudice, bigotry and sometimes outright violence" so people react in an opposite direction. That makes sense. But what of the 'Gays and Blacks in this country undergoing huge amounts of prejudice, bigotry and sometimes (actually regularly) outright violence'?
When will Americans say 'there has been so much prejudice and bigotry and violence against African Americans that we will bear no word of criticism no matter what!'
And what of LGBT people? Not enough bigotry against us to buy us protection? The violence against us is somehow acceptable?
I come to DU the morning after the election to read that LGBT people were to blame for the losses. But no one can criticize execution of gay people in Muslim countries?
Look at this shit. Look at it:
""The openness and brazenness of the LBGT agenda and the media flaunting of gay marriages all across the country cost Dems dearly and threatens to do so in the future."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025764803