or a magazine cover

that latest thread was a good illustration of how the boys maneuvered an observation about the horrible reactions women get on line for expressing an opinion into women having hysterical overreactions to some minor social transgression.

waiting for it to become a legendary DU flame war over a shirt

I've said this before, but one of the reasons I haven't bought an X Box One yet is I've heard about these things where they threaten women and I'm scared. I used to play online, until they came out with the things where you can chat on a headset while you're playing. That's where a lot of the idiots do their babbling.

One good thing is, though, a lot of people are starting to become aware of this kind of thing. It'd be a shame if more women out there dropped video games as a hobby because a few freaks ruined it for everyone. I grew up with early video games in the late 70s and early 80s, and to think we're at a point, where somebody is *playing a game,* for pity's sake, just a game, and someone else has to threaten them over that.

I'm glad men like Chris Kluwe and Adam Savage are talking about it, too.

in that I've never had vile language aimed at me on the internet. At least not that I've noticed.

Some years ago now, here on DU, I had a bit of a problem that lasted only a few hours when some mwmber posted a couple of somewhat threatening things to me on a thread or two. I notified the administrators and the other poster was gone. Maybe more places ought to be moderated as well as this place.

And I'm no angel. I've had an occasional post hidden because I've expressed my personal opinion a bit too strongly for some people here. I'm not saying this to complain, but just to state a fact. No doubt those who voted to hide those posts believe they did exactly the right thing, and even though I may disagree insofar as those specific posts are concerned, I think that our jury system is a good one.

We see what happens when it isn't (Discussionist). I think there should be community standards for Twitter, for example. Yes, they have a TOS, and theoretically abuse is not allowed. But it's hard to get them to take action. People are downright vile online if you let them be.

I don't know what they answer is. I'd say less anonymity, but that is useful for some people in some contexts.

Is pretty safe, a moderated site. You've been on MIRT right? We catch that type frequently, and get rid of them, but they do appear.

I went to Discussionist all of once and will never be back again.

I guess I don't really do a lot on-line.

MIRT is a system of monitoring any DUer in good standing ( and a star member) can sign up for. You can do up two consecutive 3 month turns then take a break. In MIRT, we try to catch the newly signed trolls-- we miss a few of course. There's very little arguing there, people who might not get along out here are fine there ( usually) with a common purpose. I encourage any DUer to try it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=modsystem#mirteam

Look for sign up date in Announcements

That's essentially what this BS boils down to. They hardly ever leave their parents' basements, let along interact with actual women.

It's obvious to women that these juvenile males hate anything female, so women avoid them completely in real life.

I have no idea what causes such a major sexual screw to loosen in some males. I just wish it were recognized as the dangerous pathology it is.

Last edited Sat Nov 15, 2014, 08:09 PM - Edit history (1)

...and start screaming about how they are entitled to sex because they were nice to a woman once.

The word you used should only be used to refer to a cat, not to sex or a woman.

I used the term in that way exactly because I was pointing out their misogynistic attitudes.

not being defensive when you're gently corrected. It certainly isn't rolling your eyes and telling a woman that she doesn't understand your critique of misogyny.

Here's the deal: that word gets used to attack and devalue us. It has a context that is painful. You can make your point without it and it would be nice for the women on this thread to be able to discuss our experiences without having to read sexist slurs.

Now I'm glad I voted to hide. I was hoping you would have a little bit of sensitivity.

If you're trying to show yourself as a person who stands against misogyny, why use misogynous language?

Should we not allowed to talk about racists using the N-word in serious discussions about racial slurs?

But I wasn't the one who alerted on your post, and I stated in my explanation that while I agreed with your sentiment, I felt the language was OTT.

I was trying to do you a fucking favor, okay?

my gosh!

post deploring racist language, that word is just too ugly to use. The same is true about other slurs.

Thanks for editing the p-word out of that post.

Your context was clear. If some people can't grasp that simple concept, the problem is with their reading comprehension, not with your writing style.

that you have struck the metallic, pointed cylindrical fastener with the oversized pounding device.

They're either that demo or the older version thereof. People so socially inept that they make Asperger people like me look perfectly normal.

The virginity rate among such trolls is near-total.

- are sadly and pathetically unable to accept the fact that women are as fully human as are they themselves and are as entitled to live their own lives with the same rights, opportunities and freedom as are men.

waiting for the asshole who will cite one instance of this happening to a man, then claim "everyone does it."

up against.

ALL Bullying, harassment, stalking and this type of psychotic crap that leads a man to say to another human being "I promise I am going to kill you" and not be immediately deprived of his Internet connection (if not much, much worse) needs to be dealt with yesterday.

This behavior is as much as a deterrent to the growth of the Internet as any other cyber crime and it needs to be SERIOUSLY dealt with, not swept under the rug with the apparent belief that only the person at the receiving end of this idiocy is affected and the only one that needs to handle it.

because of online bullying and harassment.

She had several other problems going on as well, depression and mental illness, but the trolling was noted to be a large part in her suicide. http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/charlotte-dawson-found-dead-after-long-and-public-battle-with-depression/story-fn907478-1226834561969

Some folks are so hateful and mean that they would consider this to be a win-win, harass somebody to the point that they actually take their own lives. I can't imagine how much hate must be in someone to do something like this.

And the "just ignore them" advice given to people who are being bullied and harassed is as stupid as it is unhelpful. That advice has even been touted here on DU when issues of stalking come up. The onus is not on the person being harassed, the psychotic assholes DOING the harassing bear all responsibility for what's happening. Period.

And incredibly sad

oh wait....they probably hate their mothers to say things like that. for shame!

There's some self-congratulation upthread about how DU is better, but it's really not.

And death threats wouldn't be taken well, but I take your point

1. I've received more abusive PMs than I can count off the top of my head.

2. And one really gross request for a hookup. (From a married guy with kids. Super gross.)

3. Two posters who were mad at my boyfriend (and whom I had on ignore, so I not only didn't provoke this I couldn't stand up for myself because I couldn't see what they were doing) decided to speculate about my genitals. They didn't get banned for this.

4. A poster told me he understands why my ex abused me. Not banned.

5. Another poster decided that my posting about the mentality of my rapist in a discussion of rape culture meant I was "playing the victim" and needed therapy. He went on and on about this for many subthreads, none of these posts were hidden by a jury. He was eventually banned after a great deal of outcry.

And that's just me. I'm hardly the only one to have such experiences.

Youre right, I was thinking of Twitter and not of the women I know here who have recieved threats. Their should be exactly zero, but that's far from true.

I've never been deeply involved here outside of HOF, or the feminist group, and I know you're a very active member, in other words, you speak up strong and state your opinion, and got what's become far too typical treatment towards women from the Internet.


I am so sorry.

I am curious whenever someone for whom the treatment of women is a major concern would stick around on a forum so filled with misogyny. There has to be other forums with tighter restrictions.

And we're not going to do that.

I would ask why the people who hate women don't go post on Reddit or /b or someplace with their idiot friends.

...why treat them seriously? Doesn't that prop them up to a certain extent? Why not mock them with a quick retort?

Obviously I have never been on the receiving end of something like this but that's how I respond to ridiculously over-the-top statements like these in other situations. Dismiss them. Preferably with something that makes everyone else laugh.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

Get a couple of your friends to start telling you you're ugly, that you're fat, that you are worthless, that you should save the world the trouble and go hang yourself, that you need a good rape to set you straight. Tell them to say this to you at random moments, at least once every time you meet.

You will know, and they will know, that it isn't true, but let's see how much time it will take before you start avoiding your friends, how much time it will take before you start using more time in front of the mirror, how long it will take you before you start getting mental problems.

Your naive approach of 'they're not worth the trouble, just dismiss them' is woefully ignorant and unhelpful. When you have people writing vile thing after vile thing at you, often with their full name in the email or twitter account, it's not a matter of pretending you don't see them. Most people who advocate your approach are the very same ones who spew acid about how she would be to blame if she is attacked, because after all, why didn't she report these threats to the police? Why didn't she report her stalkers? Why didn't she confront them?

The asswipes who threaten are a problem, yes, but just as big a problem are those who advocate ignoring the problem. Who do not believe the victims, who do not see the problem. Those people who say "but he's such a great guy", or "it's word against word" when the women in their groups point out the problematic behavior of one of their buddies in the group - and then can't for the life of them understand why there aren't any women or other minorities in their group, after a while. Those guys who say, but I don't harass, and think that that is enough. Sorry, it isn't - you are part of the problem as long as you do not actually believe the victims, and listen to them, and follow up on their recommendations. Even such a great guy as Wil Wheaton doesn't understand this - that just because he claims there isn't any harassment in his gaming groups, doesn't mean that a) there isn't any harassment - he might just not see it because he isn't part of the victim group, or b) that if there is a lack of harassment, that doesn't mean that there aren't any harassers in his groups, it might just be that the victims have chosen to leave the groups instead of being harassed.

And this idea that these threats are made by socially inept clowns? Talk about being naive again. I am willing to bet that you have in your circle of friends guys who have harassed women. Guys you consider great friends. Guys who wouldn't take no for an answer, but that you can shoot the breeze with. Guys you work with who made harassing remarks at female employees when you weren't there. Guys who your women friends tried to talk about, softballing it by making it a joke about how he grabbed her breast at that party when he was drunk, or the guy who insisted on following her home when she was drunk, or that guy who suggested they go out on a date, even though she was in a relationship. And when your women friends did try to talk about it, they most likely got the same response as the one you gave in this thread, and they realized that it was useless to talk about it with guys like you.

Every single solitary word.

What, they think we can just ignore all the horrible things people write? Talk about having privilege blinders on! Not to mention, we know full well that if something should happen as a consequence, ignoring these asswipes would be used against us quicker than you can say victim blaming.

instead of the harasser ("why don't you stop this really idiotic, juvenile and bizarre behavior and leave that person alone?&quot are as unhelpful as they are stupid. The idea that a quick and pithy retort will make someone who is violent/deranged/or just creepily fixated on you leave you alone is naïve, dumb and yes as you said, IMMENSELY privileged.

In a perfect world, these people with lives so empty that they see nothing wrong with engaging in the trolling, stalking and harassment would be banned from the web sites where they engage in this behaviour, have their Internet connection revoked and in the extreme cases mentioned in the article, maybe spend some forced time on somebody's couch or jail cell. But we all know we live from far from a perfect world.

.

Sure, socially inept clowns exist on the internet. But being a woman means that men have been honking at you and making disgusting comments since you were 11 or 12, that random fucking strangers will call you the foulest things for minor social offenses or nothing at all, that your activities are constrained by the threat of violence in ways that men's just aren't. All damn day, every fucking day, since we were kids. It's fucking exhausting.

Telling women we take misogyny too seriously is nuts. If we called every instance of gendered malice tossed our way out we'd get nothing else done. But we get to call it out in spaces where we expect to feel safe or expect backup or just aren't willing to take anymore. And criticizing us for doing so is victim blaming bullshit.