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applegrove

(118,694 posts)
Sat Nov 15, 2014, 11:18 PM Nov 2014

Wake up and oppose theocracy: Bill Maher, Rula Jebreal and the urgent Islam debate

Wake up and oppose theocracy: Bill Maher, Rula Jebreal and the urgent Islam debate

by Jeffrey Taylor at Salon

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/15/wake_up_and_oppose_theocracy_bill_maher_rula_jebreal_and_the_urgent_islam_debate/

"SNIP.........................


Did Jebreal really think she would help her cause by chastising Maher for speaking his mind and thereby reminding us of the intolerance that has so frequently characterized Islam? (To wit: the longstanding Muslim-led campaign to make blasphemy against Islam an international crime.) The rush among Muslims to condemn their faith’s critics discloses a valid underlying fear — that possibly those critics are onto something, that maybe the religious beliefs in question are untrue and even ridiculous.

This fear is nothing new, nor is it by any means peculiar to those professing Islam. Recall Galileo, who faced the Roman Inquisition and subsequent decades of house arrest for his wildly “heretical” assertion of Heliocentrism – that the Earth and the planets orbit the sun. The Vatican’s Index of Prohibited Books grew to contain more than 4,000 titles, including those by the Enlightenment’s key proponents, by the time it was abolished in 1966. The Catholic Church can boast a gruesome roster of shameful acts, but most pernicious has certainly been the retrograde influence it has exercised on humankind’s advancement by blocking free speech and thereby stultifying its followers. The prohibition against condoms in AIDS-stricken Africa, the sheltering of pedophile priests and opposition to gay rights and abortion are other manifestations of the baleful, at times lethal, mortmain the Vatican still has on our affairs.

Maher’s detractors, and often their interviewers in the media, ignore the central point he made in his controversial monologue, which was that if being liberal means anything, it means opposing theocracy. He declared that, “It’s okay to judge that rule of law isn’t just different than theocracy, it’s better. If you don’t see that, then you are either a religious fanatic or a masochist. But one thing you are not is a liberal.”

Put another way, secularism and legal protections for free speech are the finest fruits of the Enlightenment. They merit spirited defense and should not be casually surrendered to those who, in the name of misbegotten notions of “multiculturalism” or political correctness, would institute their own versions of the Inquisition and decide for others what speech is permissible, what is not. Nonbelievers should not sit idly by as those who attack the single greatest historical enemy of human progress, organized religion, are intimidated or barred from the debating table (or the commencement-address podium). In Islam’s case, this is no easy task, given that for many Muslims the faith infuses their politics, customs and identity, and its critics have faced violence and assassination.


..........................SNIP"
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Wake up and oppose theocracy: Bill Maher, Rula Jebreal and the urgent Islam debate (Original Post) applegrove Nov 2014 OP
“It’s okay to judge that rule of law isn’t just different than theocracy, it’s better. tritsofme Nov 2014 #1
Read the First book of Samuel. Try to read past the Iron Age rhetoric. raging moderate Nov 2014 #2
I'm sure that there are some liberal Muslims just as there are LuvNewcastle Nov 2014 #3
Most of the liberal muslims I have met go much further than Maher does Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2014 #9
LOL, Maher is a raging Islamophobic bigot. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #4
Semi-related: "mortmain" has always been Nevernose Nov 2014 #5
I loved that too Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #7
Maher is giving Dennis Miller a run for his money... blkmusclmachine Nov 2014 #6
oh shut up! noiretextatique Nov 2014 #8

tritsofme

(17,380 posts)
1. “It’s okay to judge that rule of law isn’t just different than theocracy, it’s better.
Sat Nov 15, 2014, 11:40 PM
Nov 2014

If you don’t see that, then you are either a religious fanatic or a masochist. But one thing you are not is a liberal.”

So very true Bill. Thanks for posting, great article.

raging moderate

(4,305 posts)
2. Read the First book of Samuel. Try to read past the Iron Age rhetoric.
Sun Nov 16, 2014, 12:05 AM
Nov 2014

The prophet Samuel knew something. He prayed and prayed. He said the Lord Creator told him that, in rejecting representative democracy, the people were actually rejecting Him their Creator. Good grief, people, Samuel was talking about three thousand years ago! Of course he doesn't have our vocabulary! This is actually the message of this prophet! And remember the story of the prophet of the Creator, trying to reach the actual Creator, who knew that drenched "precious stone" rocks would attract lightning ("fire from heaven&quot , because he had actually observed how the real physical universe works! What we have been taught to call religion is actually false, and the real Creator is there in the scientifically observed reality. We are supposed to use our means of observation, our powers of reason, and our fire of love inside our hearts, to work together to help each other.

LuvNewcastle

(16,846 posts)
3. I'm sure that there are some liberal Muslims just as there are
Sun Nov 16, 2014, 12:27 AM
Nov 2014

liberal Christians and Jews, but Islam is generally a very intolerant religion. There are some majority-Christian countries in which I would refuse to live, such as the 'Christian' countries in Africa that persecute gay people as well as Russia and some others. There are many moderate to liberal Christian countries, though. I can't think of any majority-Muslim countries where I would feel comfortable, however. I don't think there are too many other liberals who would opt to live in a country with a large Muslim majority, either. Muslim countries are simply too intolerant and dangerous for anyone other than straight male Muslims.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
9. Most of the liberal muslims I have met go much further than Maher does
Sun Nov 16, 2014, 03:04 AM
Nov 2014

and generally express the opinion that fundamentalists need to be eradicated.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
4. LOL, Maher is a raging Islamophobic bigot.
Sun Nov 16, 2014, 12:31 AM
Nov 2014

The Neo-cons have done a good job poisoning the "New Atheist" movement with hatred of Islam in order to legitimize imperialist wars.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
5. Semi-related: "mortmain" has always been
Sun Nov 16, 2014, 12:32 AM
Nov 2014

One of my favorite words. It's a legal term for church property, unclaimed property, etc., but literally it means "dead hands" (Stoker was referring to the captain of the Demeter).

 

Ravenna44

(40 posts)
7. I loved that too
Sun Nov 16, 2014, 02:31 AM
Nov 2014

Actually I have never seen "mortmain" used anywhere outside "A Swiftly Tilting Planet" so I was delighted to come across it here. I am also amused that Maher is a common Muslim boys' name, and Jibreel is the Arabic rendering of Gabriel - who in Islam is the angel who recited Allah's words into Mohammed's ear.

Also: great article. Bill Maher is right, and it makes me sad to see the rise of the "Ben Affleck liberal": one who proves his moral superiority by defending theocrats, misogynists, and gay-bashers against those with the guts to call them out.

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