General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRemember the song "One Tin Soldier"? There is a line in there that seems to be a Tea Bag mantra
The part of the chorus that goes
"Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of heaven
You can justify it in the end"
Struck me today when I heard it on the radio
mac56
(17,574 posts)but since Tea Partyers lack the most basic sense of irony, they seem to have embraced it.
brewens
(13,620 posts)that amazes me. I once heard George Will talk about it. That movie was an inspiration to him to become what he is now. It enraged him. Can you imagine how fucked up you would have to be? Let's see. Vietnam war heroe sticking up for hippies and Indians in a small town vs ignorant racist rednecks! Is that unMerican or whut?
Another thing is when that movie hit, my uncle owned a movie theater in Billings, Montana. We were on vacation there and I was maybe 10 years old and going into the fifth grade. It was summer and that movie he always said was the big break he ever got. It didn't cost him squat and it packed that place for weeks! I wouldn't have gotten to see it that first run if it wasn't for him. It was PG rated and was well known to have a brief tittie scene, a holy grail for us pre-teens that summer! He told my parents it was no big deal and I got to go. Good ol' Uncle Paul!
On my Netflix que it goes! I have to see that again!
rurallib
(62,448 posts)And the song came from nowhere to make it to #1 I think.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Plus having a white actor play a Native American to get moral ascendancy is pretty much everything that conservatives see as being wrong with race in America (this also gets to some of their reaction to Warren).
It certainly did change Hollywood forever, by inventing the "blockbuster" style of release, and in some ways prefiguring the "anti-hero" style of action movies (Die Hard, etc.). Plus it's got what's-his-name from WKRP. But I think its appeal is generational; I'm 38 and just can't get past the mess of the plot (in fairness the first one is much better than the second, which probably retroactively colored my view of the first).
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Wounded Knee. Meant more then.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)My conservative friends who hate it mostly say something along the lines of "there's no way hippies would agree to do work and not use drugs", plus the irritation at Laughlin pretending to be Native American, which they see as hypocritical when in other situations liberals criticize white actors for playing minority roles (not that that happens much anymore, but back then).
jwirr
(39,215 posts)to the white actor playing a Native American. Well my friends on the res were not all that thrilled with that aspect either. But that did not keep them from liking the movie.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Still pushing it a bit, but at least it wasn't Johnny Depp as Tonto.
The poster for the movie didn't help, as it made the character look MORE Native American than he actually appeared onscreen:
(Oh, and the name you were looking for was Howard Hesseman, who played "Drama Instructor #2)(he also had an interesting early role as an activist New Left type on an episode of DRAGNET, in which Hesseman's character ended up in a radio debate on the 'ends and means" question with Joe Friday, and was allowed to give a relatively accurate and eloquent version of the radical case, for some reason).
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)for the epic ass-kicking of a bully!
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's funny to remember that "martial arts movies" were still a complete novelty back then (Lee wouldn't have commercial success for another few years).
I do love Chan for trying to recover that sense of novelty in his US films, particularly Rumble in the Bronx.
LeftInTX
(25,551 posts)George Will was like 30 years old and he went see Billy Jack and got enraged by it!!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)with the Native Americans.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Actions can be bad, and trying to justify bad actions is worse. The movie was more anti-Racism and anti-people NOT doing the right things, then anything to do with religion (unless you mean by religion is doing the right thing, which is not always the case when it comes to people using religion to justify their actions).
jwirr
(39,215 posts)a very good reputation even today. And many churches still have no idea how to interact with people of other cultures.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 17, 2014, 01:15 AM - Edit history (2)
n/t
jwirr
(39,215 posts)happyslug
(14,779 posts)Part of this is the result of the "Peace Policy" adopted under President Grant. Now the actual "Peace Policy" as implemented by Grant was actually an improvement, by the 1880s (When Grant was long out of office, his Last day as President was March 3, 1877) the policy of "assimilation" was adopted and part of this was the "Americanization" of Native Americans. This was pushed by General Platt who founded Carlisle Indian School in 1879. Here is his part of his 1892 report on this policy:
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4929/
Thus, the policy of the US till recently (1960s) has been forced assimilation. The Churches were both part of that policy a victim of that policy. To make a Native American a "Christian" was one of the ways to make Native Americans more of an "American". At the same time the same policy required those churches to look after their members NOT as Native Americans but as "White Americans". The later made the Churches victims, for it undermined whatever support among Native Americans the Churches had AND also meant such Churches could NOT be used as Churches have been used for in the past, as rally points for grievances of its members.
People tend to forget that since people meet at churches, they talk to each other before and after mass. Thus Churches are traditional places to meet and form groups. Early Unions tended to be Church Related, not because they members were one religion or another, but it was a place where many potential union members meet and could meet and form groups.
One Historian called the American Revolution the "Presbyterian" Revolution, for it was the Presbyterians who ended up being the back bone of the Revolution. Congress and the States ended up sending their messages to the people via the Presbyterian Churches who tend spread them to other churches who wanted to get the news. The American Revolution was NOT a religious war, but religion was how the sides formed up. Presbyterians, Congregationalists and other "Reform" Churches supported the Revolution. Anglicans (Church of England, Episcopalians) supported the Crown (Catholics, Lutherans tended to support who ever of the above was in the majority, which tended to be the Presbyterians in areas which had high Catholic and Lutheran populations). Thus you went to the local church to find out what people where talking about.
Now, since the invention of the Modern Newspaper (about 1850, it took the invention of pulp paper, invented 1801, and steam ships and railroad to spread those newspapers) Churches are NO longer the places you go to get the news. Radio came into play in the 1920s, Televisions in the 1950s when it comes to news.
On the other hand, Churches are still a place for people to meet and discuss things. You be surprised at what was founded (and had their first meeting) in some church's basement. IT is this function that the Churches on the Reservation have failed to provide. Such Churches are depended either on the Government or outside donation that they do NOT want to risk being the location of radicals, even if such radicals are their own members (and even if the Parish Minister or Priest supports the Radicals).
Thus I believe your statement of lack of support of, for and by the Churches of the reservations. It is a product of the past 140 years policy of force assimilation.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)children. They also told me about the time when the churches we selected by the government to oversee all the services on the res. One such story tells about how these services were used to "force" baptism on Natives - if you did not let them baptize you then the minister/sheriff would take grandma to jail. Many Natives were baptized many times in order to get services needed. On the other hand they told me about the priest who went to the top of the hill and baptized the entire town from a distance and claimed them as his flock.
I agree the churches were also the victims. This is a very good lesson regarding separation of church and state. When ever the church gets involved too much in government issues it is the one that is going to get the blame. The government will see to it.
Edited to add that one of my family ancestors attended Carlisle school. The story goes he was running from the law and they took him to the school. I do not know the truth of this but it is an interesting story. He also ran away from the school to come home.
bvf
(6,604 posts)Made me think.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)It may be a good thing if Republicans go to heaven ... that means EVERYBODY gets in!
bhikkhu
(10,724 posts)JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)COVEN ONE TIN SOLDIER
COVEN (1971)
Written By Dennis Lambert and Brian Potter
(opening chords after flute)
F C
C G
Listen, children, to a story
Am G
That was written long ago
F C
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
G
And the valley folk below
C
On the mountain was a treasure
Am G
Buried deep beneath a stone
F C
And the valley people swore
Dm C
They'd have it for their very own
C Em
Go ahead and hate your neighbor
F C
Go ahead and cheat a friend
C Em
Do it in the name of Heaven
F C
You can justify it in the end
C Em
There won't be any trumpets blowing
F C
Come the judgment day
On the bloody morning after who...
C
One tin soldier rides away
C G
So, the people of the valley
Am G
Sent a message up the hill
F C
Asking for the buried treasure,
Dm G
Tons of gold for which they'd kill
C G
Came an answer from the kingdom,
Am
"With our brothers, we will share
F C
All the secrets of our mountain,
Dm C
All the riches buried there"
Db
Now, the valley cried with anger,
Dbm
"Mount your horses, draw your sword!"
F# Db
And they killed the mountain people
Ebm Ab
So, they won their just reward
Db Ab
Now, they stood beside the treasure
Bbm
On the mountain dark and red
F# Db
Turn the stone and looked beneath it...
F# Db
"Peace on Earth" was all it said
F#
Go ahead and hate your neighbor
Db
Go ahead and cheat a friend
Db F
Do it in the name of Heaven
F# Ebm
You can justify it in the end
Db Fm
There won't be any trumpets blowing
F# Db
Come the judgment day
Db
On the bloody morning after who...
Db
One tin soldier rides away
Db Fm
Go ahead and hate your neighbor
F# Dbm
Go ahead and cheat a friend
Db Ab
Do it in the name of Heaven
F# Db
You can justify it in the end
Db Fm
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Fm F#
Come the judgment day
Db
On the bloody morning after who...
One tin soldier rides away
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)They shifted when pasted from clipboard.
Words and chords from the site are usually pretty accurate but not perfect.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)fairly typical anti-war pop song from the early 70's, but one which while pretty to hear, when you listen to the lyrics, you realize she's lamenting about a social injustice. So you want to like the song, but it's hard to do that because it's a song about a bad thing.
As a child, I didn't think of it in those terms, but in hindsight, I realize now why whenever I heard that song I felt sad. Thanks for the blast from the past.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)we have all these justifications for hating our neighbor
"he's a teabagger"
"he's a racist"
"he's a moron"
"he's a sexist"
"he's a homophobe"
"he's a wingnut"
"he's a bigot"
"he's a xenophobe"
"he's a talibornigan"
"he's a hypocrite"
and also, without a shred of irony
"he's hateful"
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Look at all the hate there is in Red China
Then look again in Selma Alabama
You can leave here for four days in space
but when you return it's the same old place
Hate your next door neighbor
but don't forget to say grace
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Thanks for the reminder, rurallib.