1. Does this mean a woman who drinks approximately one drink a day and a man who drinks two drinks a day are considered "heavy drinkers?"

2. How much alcohol constitutes "a drink?" I assume it's 12 oz of beer, 5 oz of wine, and 2 oz of liquor. I often come home from work to have a highball followed by a glass of wine or beer at dinner. Does this make me a "heavy drinker?"

know, you tell me if you may have a problem. IMO we are not cardboard cutouts which every study or label may apply. I, a son of an alcoholic according to studies should be at a high risk to become an alcoholic, which I am not, I don't drink at all. Never mind the fact that I quit smoking ten years ago and twice weaned myself off pain medications I take for chronic pain. My brother on the other hand is an alcoholic and has struggled with his addition for many years. Three out of four children in my family did not become alcoholics even though we were raised around alcohol all our lives.

if it is hurting you or your family then you have a problem which needs to be addressed. Plain and simple. Thanks for your replies. Now go have a drink

I don't know the stats myself on alcoholism in France or Italy but having traveled there many times I can say I've never seen a bunch of drunks on the street or in cafes.

I love the wine there. If it has sulfites, there is not as much of it as in the wine we get here. As a consequence, you don't get headaches from it, even with the red wine.

True - if it's red - its home made - only way I can drink red wine.

By this study - my glass at dinner puts me right at the edge of the heavy drinker category. Who knew?

My husband too - because he always has a grappa or a liqueur (limoncello or strawberry cream) after dinner. That's at least 14 drinks a week for him.

Our wine tasting was done with chocolate that was specifically made for that purpose. It was an exquisite experience! When I visited the vineyard I was told the light colored stones occurring naturally in the soil reflected the sun's warmth to the grapes, ripening them. I found that charming, as I did the whole subject of grape cultivation, wine production and storage. Fascinating!

You could do worse things than go around touring famous wine making areas of France.

Re wine touring in France. My friend Arnaud has a vineyard in the Ramatuelle area - there's nothing like his wine in a solo cup, with club soda and lemon on a hot August day. . They take it seriously - but then - they don't. And that's the beauty of it.

My husband has really stepped up his home made "stuff" since he read an article in La Republicca last year saying Italian men were losing their home craft skills. It was something like - 20 things are grandfathers could do that will be lost arts.

He knows those things - so he's doing them now.

Lucky me!

and drink their homemade wines. It sure avoids the sulphites issue...

I don't know if these studies tease out WHICH drinks one is consuming when one has "two" drinks a day. Is it straight gin, or Schlitz malt liquor, or is it red wine?

The research team that's just demonstrated radical anti-aging properties of nicotinic acid (or something like that) swear by reservastrol. I think they're out of Harvard, so it's not woo.

I don't drink red wine because of teeth staining but I take the supplement.

with my dinner and sometimes drink a glass of red wine before going to bed, usually 2 or 3 times a week. If I go out, I might drink up to 3 drinks in an evening. I can't even remember the last time I got tipsy. I don't like that feeling so don't drink to that level.

...to have a drink in the middle of the night, you might have a problem.

TYY

I smoked to be cool and to fit in with the crowd, took pain medication to try to relieve some of the pain I suffer from.

I drank far more heavily than that during college, but as soon as I wasn't part of a social scene, all of those bottles of hard liquor wound up sitting gathering dust, until most of them simply got discarded during moves, and only a few still hang around gathering dust on the off chance old college buddies visit and I want to be able to offer them something. Nowadays, 'hard drinking' means maybe a hard cider once every four or five months.

I'd certainly be willing to bet most college kids end up drinking far less as soon as they leave college.

Seeing half a drink abandoned on the bar still leaves me uneasy after 17+ years of sobriety.

I drink wine every day, and I looooove the taste. But I also like just a slight buzz, a little bit of warmth, not to be super tipsy.

Twist that arm of mine (the one not holding the wine glass).

and in my case coming from unhealthy home life makes some of us long to fit in. I'm glad I met my wife early in life because who knows which road I may of taken. I could of ended up like my brother.

doctor tells you it's going to kill you!!!

They've got tests to check for everything.....what's the test for drinking??? Our word at our physical? "Oh I don't drink at all during the week just on weekends and then it' only one on Friday and one on Saturday".

And "I don't want to stop" is not a valid answer. Alcoholics can't stop even when they want to, so they say bullshit like "I can stop whenever I want to, I just don't want to". Sure, sure, you like blacking out and not remembering what happened yesterday or how you got home. You like examining your car for evidence of accidents involving pedestrians or other cars the night after a blackout. You like puking before bed. You like waking up and swearing you'll never do it again, then doing it again later that day.

My parent's marriage didn't survive his drinking, and his relationships with me and my sisters have been strained because of it). My sisters did the intervention thing, and discovered that he truly does not believe he has a problem. He has since developed alcoholic pancreatitis. He started drinking again a few months after the episode that led to discovery.

He had a weird pattern. He spent some most of the year as a heavy drinker (several beers almost every night) who went on some serious binges sometimes. Then, on Jan. 1st of every year, he would quit drinking for 6 months.

Both of his parents and 4 of his 5 siblings were\are alcoholics. In his father's family, there were 4 brothers and a sister. 3 of the brothers were, and the other died very young.

There is no question that the environmental and biological factors are in play on that side of my family (we also have Native American heritage).
2 of my 4 sisters have admitted it. Another seems to have tendencies (the vodka and OJ before entering stressful situations is my main clue. Not sure about all of the cousins.

I am one of the lucky few.

Alcoholism/addiction is a rampant problem in this world, NA culture has practically been decimated. I so wish that more could be done but there is such heavy denial both on the parts of the drinker and the family. As you well know, no outside force, even the loss of ones family and livelihood, is enough. It has to come from within and the alcoholic has such impaired thinking, even when sober.

You had a fortunate roll of the biological dice! I'm happy for you but that doesn't mean you haven't been terribly negatively affected by alcohol. For that I feel for you.

I had an alcoholic father who quit drinking after he retired and died only months after doing so from cirrhosis of the liver. My brother who I do not talk to was also a abusive drunk and caused myself a great deal of pain after my father passed. I as the scapegoat of the family and last born was the a target of everyone's anger. I carry these scars still to this day and one of the reasons I tend to be a little thin skinned at times. We can only control what we can and hope to be able to forgive. I'm still working on that part. I wish you the best loyalsister, I know how hard it is

Fortunately, I have found an adaptive distance. It has actually been sort of natural, as I have a disability and enough to manage without getting tied up in any pathology he has to offer. I have wondered if my disability didn't derail my possible "genetic destiny." With that in mind, I feel lucky.

I kind of always knew where it was going with my dad because he has always said "I'll be a drinking man until the say I die."
I'm very glad that there were no boys in our family. The chances that it will manifest are higher in males, and we were fortunate to have the parent who was not an alcoholic as our primary role model.

he was so authoritarian and abusive when I was growing up, that I'm too scared to even talk about it with him. If I discuss anything about him at all, it also turns into a discussion about what is wrong with ME instead of what's wrong with whatever it is he was doing, like drinking, yelling, being sexist etc (there are also personality disorders involved here with my dad) I've talked about it with my mom, but she doesn't think that it's "that bad".

Growing up there were a lot of incidents involving my dad's drinking and me being scared. And he definitely was NOT a mean drunk - drinking usually made him nicer. Still, as a kid I was very uncomfortable with his drinking. I regularly would beg my mom to make him stop. Usually those were the times he was so floor-licking drunk I couldn't understand a word out of his mouth.

He never let drinking interfere with his work, or with his being a 'responsible adult'. But every night he would 'have a few' and every weekend he would 'party' - either with family friends or on his own. He even drove us kids once when he was drunk and visiting old school friends and they 'made' him drink. My mom was pissed...but really didn't scold him or anything.

Now that I'm an adult, my dad still maintains his drinking 'schedule'. A few drinks on weeknights, a lot more on the weekends. My brother does the same thing now, despite health issues (that so far are unrelated to drinking). My brother understands the risks and gets his liver checked out regularly, and so far no issues so he keeps drinking. My dad, however, does have liver issues and elevated bilirubin but his doctor says he's okay. So my dad still drinks. His dad was an obese alcoholic who started smoking at 11 and lived until he was 97, so my dad figures if the only drinks, he's got a leg up on his dad and should live at least as long. My mom has told him she is worried about his liver and thinks he should at least cut back and he makes fun of her being worried, insists he's not a heavy drinker and that is that.

Anyway, family get togethers suck because my dad and brother are usually drunk and obnoxious. My brother at least acknowledges he has a problem, but then says, "well, it runs in the family" and says he'll stop the minute he has related medical issues.

At any rate, I'd add that if people are too scared to talk to you about your drinking, that could also be a sign you have a problem.

and when I became a grand dad I decided I didn't want my new grand daughter to know her papa as a drunk so I quit. It was easy too because of the motivation I had. By the time I got good and sobered up I knew I'd never go back there again. All it took was three days of sobering up and I was in the clear. She's seven and a half years old now and I'm as sober as a judge, so to say.

I pretty much drank all day every day except a few Sundays when I'd forget to have a stash for that day. Peppermint schnapps was what I drank. At first it was a half pint a day, then it was a pint a day then it was a pint and a half a day working up to two pints a day when I quit. I think we just threw out the last vestiges of spirits that were under the sink for all these years, just in case, I needed it.

The secret to quiting for me was motivation first and keeping a bottle in the house so I could have a drink if I deemed it necessary because if I got to that point and had gone to the liquor store and bought some I'd have drank it all and would still be drinking today I'm sure. but by keeping that bottle handy, just in case, kept me from taking that one step. It worked and I'm a happy sober person today.
I never had to use that just in case bottle either

I'm so glad you were able to fight your demons and are strong enough to continue the fight. My motivation to quit smoking was my children. Tried many time before but I guess I did not want it bad enough at that time. Now ten years later I still have the ashtray I used next to the PC to put used tissues and gum wrappers in with no desire to go back to that habit.

for a long time, but being single for most of my life it was a social outlet. Then I got older and it became medicine because of the pain I was in. Of course doctors don't want to hear the word pain, they might have to write a script for opiates and the DEA thingy. Finally got a doctor at the VA, after a fight with them to get opiates. I quit drinking for three years, it was easy with proper pain care. So now I drink two beers a day for three years now. I feel much better and have zero alcohol cravings to get drunk or even buzzed. I do enjoy the taste of only two beers also. So I really do wonder if I ever was an alcoholic or just a common thing that most people go through with drinking.

Brother Pinky on the other hand died from liver cancer, Hep C and cirrhosis from drugs and alcohol at 54. But he did shoot and kill our youngest brother when he was 15 and with no council for him, we were poor and ignorant, what else could he do to stop his pain. He was absolutely one of the nicest people you would ever meet.

I lost my best friend of 30 years due to alcoholism. She's still alive, but the person she has become after 20 years of HEAVY drinking is unrecognizable compared to the person I met and became instant best friends with. She goes through a 1.75 liter of brandy every other day and that doesn't count the Mai Tai's the Bloody Mary's, the Memosa's, etc. that she drinks for her warm up to the REAL drinking.

since there is witch hunt against those who have chronic pain and the medication they need to ease such pain. I stopped my pain medication two weeks ago since my doctors were using it against me. I'm not doing well physically but mentally I feel like a champ for the time being.

I always had the thought of my father's alcohol abuse in the back of my mind to keep my medication intake at a low level if I needed to stop. Thank God it worked since I don't like to forced to do anything and it seems that is way things are heading concerning the treatment of chronic pain. I wish chronic pain would be recognized and the people who suffer are treated with some respect. Thank you for your reply and I hope your feet feel better!!!

Weekends I drink 2-3 glasses per day, so I probably do drink 10-15 glasses of red wine per week.

Who knew I was a heavy drinker?

I would call someone a heavy drinker if they consumed half my weekly total, but in one day.

up. 100s of beer cans taken to the recycler every month. Yes my parents were alcoholics. 3 of 4 of my grandparents also alcoholics. Great granddad ran moonshine during prohibition. My family has a long and not so proud history of alcohol abuse. In general under marginal control (my parents never let impact their work), but the violence in home was fueled in part my the alcohol.

We do not have alcohol in our home and it has been over 10 years since I had a drink, and even then it was not a dependency merely a social acceptance. Fortunately I married into a family that did not drink. My daughters did not have to witness what I did.

Meanwhile the vast majority of people who do drink don't have a drinking problem, aren't alcoholics, and never will be. If you start drinking and then can't stop, you might want to start questioning your drinking habits. Trying to judge alcoholism on the number of drinks one consumes per week is just not that reliable.

who take pain medication and never abuse their pain medication. One is done for fun one is done to survive. It is what it is wouldn't you say

That's not to say it hasn't happened, but I've never seen it.

People have been freaking out over alcohol for a very long time. Prohibition and blue laws are two notable examples.

it, I know it's out there. Urine tests, refusal of service, asked what is your drug of choice, blaming my shunt malfunction on pain medication just to name a few things I've had to endure. And it is only getting worse since the DEA is now after the doctors and the doctor are now afraid to help. Even the powerful NFL is feeling the pressure.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/17/sports/football/dea-investigation-of-painkillers-targets-nfl-teams-medical-staffs.html?_r=0

arrests occur each and everyday? It's a big revenue source for the states it seems.

Nevr heard it was a moneymaker, had heard the public puts a lot of pressure on LE to ignore the problem. Several communities had taken money for DUI enforcement and basically done nothing with it.

at how many arrests there are on a daily basis it is a money maker. I would be for putting breath analyzers in cars but too many people are against that. IMO we can do more to stop those who do drink and drive. How many people do not get caught? Also look at the post I replied to. That person says many do not abuse alcohol but why are there so many DWI arrests???

is why so little is done- little public outcry. It is very common in the suburbs and country. Only groups like MADD, and those like me who have lost those close to them seem to give a shit. I have friends who do it occasionally and it is very disturbing. They usually know better to admit it to me if they know about me losing two siblings to it.

I was making the same point as you but added the incentive of revenue for the state. We can do more. Believe me we are on the same side.

I had just read something about how easy it is to take to court and win, since juries are often sympathetic to the driver.
No hard feelings!

clear, I understand your point also.

it gets crazy sometimes. I hope I was not rude.

at how many arrests there are on a daily basis it is a money maker. I would be for putting breath analyzers in cars but too many people are against that. IMO we can do more to stop those who do drink and drive. How many people do not get caught? Also look at the post I replied to. That person says many do not abuse alcohol but why are there so many DWI arrests???

I understand the potential is there. But so is the potential for people who text and drive. Or who drive while sleep-deprived. All equally potentially dangerous. Yet the punishments vary by a lot. Why should someone who drinks and drives, yet doesn't hurt anyone, lose their license for a time while a person who texts a drives who doesn't hurt anyone, gets off with a ticket? I think we should be asking ourselves whether the punishments are suitable and whether they actually work. In the case of texting, I would think an education campaign would be more effective than fines. And for DWI, why not provide free taxi rides, for instance? They do it on New Years in a lot of places. I don't know the statistics so I do not know if the current punishments are actually effective. I DO know that they have been lowering the allowed BAC. Why not make it 0 then, if .08 is too high? I'd like to see the actually science behind those numbers. I'd like to see science-based law enforcement, instead of efforts designed mostly to enhance the coffers of cities and towns. I do know that breathalyzers are inaccurate and that blood tests are more accurate and that cops can charge people with DWI, if they seem impaired, yet pass the test.

I'm certainly not opposed to punishing people when they actually harm others. The rest, I do have an issue with.

really helps the person with a real problem or the person who has many DWIs. They did break the law and must face that fact. In this world we tend to punish instead of help seems to be human nature. Then again as some have stated in this thread, you must want to rid yourself of the problem no one can really force you to do so. Also it hard to rely on some people to be responsible when one's judgment is impaired. Many people go out to bars too......get drunk, I did so when I was in my twenties and I sure most people who indulge have driven over the limit one time or the other. Just sayin" It's tough problem, I have no clear answer.

Texting IMO is a worse offense since the person's judgment is not impaired and they just choose to be an asshole.

and one truth I found is , it's not how much or how often you drink, it's what happens when you do drink.

that is the truth!! Thank you

Stopped drinking years ago because I just didn't see any benefit.

somewhere @ 20 years ago on Halloween night I quit cold for several reasons, but mostly because I finally realized how stupid it was.

I grew up in a drinking family and every event we attended had alcohol involved. By the time I was 25 or so I was doing a solid 12 pack a night. Then somewhere @ 39, I realized how totally stupid it was and quit cold. Never missed it. Haven't had a drop since.

I realize now many years later I was just emulating my parents to a tee. They drank and smoked themselves to a very early death.

My ex.

I can only imagine

my ex was an uptight, depressive, stick in the mud Republican who rarely smiled and who was taught by his repressive parents and Catholic upbringing that fun was bad, so he rarely drank. When he would have a drink or two he'd be a whole lot more fun to be with. I still say he'd have been a better husband if he would have had a drink or two once in awhile

If they used a more realistic definition of heavy drinkers, many more of them would be alcoholics.

I have a friend who hasn't drank for 17 years and the alcohol still owns him. He is AA and so obsessed with NOT drinking that he is as annoying as any drunk. Totally judging ANY alcohol consumption as bad. And any of us who has grown up and know how to drink now are just fooling ourselves. He has a gray complexion from poor circulation because he smokes 3 packs of cigarettes a day and no exercise but he is blind to that. So I can't take his preachin too serious.

AA = trade one vice for another.

quitting smoking group is down the hall to the left

Most people should probably decide for themselves.

They aim to make you addicted to JEBUS rather than booze, rather than actually dealing with the addiction.

The vast majority of people who break their alcohol addiction do so without AA. AA has a good success rate with people who are highly motivated to quit, but so does everything else including people who seek no help at all.

The biggest problem with AA is their all or nothing approach. Teaching alcoholics that they are powerless over their addiction is dangerous and wrong because most will sink into remission at some point. Powerlessness and self-blame are two major things which fuel depression and are the cornerstone of 12-step programs. In fact, their program actually teaches people these things even if they don't blame themselves and don't feel powerless. The skin off my nose is that quite a bit of government money funds 12-step programs which have no proven efficacy and most likely lead to higher rates of depression and suicide.

Citations, please.

I suspect the answer is none.

http://oas.samhsa.gov/2k6/pay/pay.pdf

http://ojp.gov/about/ocr/pdfs/TwelveStepRecoveryPrograms_FAQs.pdf

Couldn't get a response from the OAS server, but that's OK.

The club I am familiar with is set up as a 501 (c) (3) non-profit corporation and has been granted tax exempt status, and is not affiliated with AA. The various 12-step programs that use the facility for meetings pay rent.

I can understand concern with the tax exempt status.

Thanks again.

Depends on the group.

I suppose you can separate 12 step programs from the bible and specific religions, but a true 12 step program requires belief in a divine power. Certainly some groups have changed the wording in the steps to make them appear more secular, but it's pretty hard to divorce the 12 steps from belief in the divine and still be a true "12 step" program. The principle on which the system is based requires the individual to admit they are powerless over their addiction and must seek a "higher power" (god or whatever you want to call it) for help.

If not, and until you do, you might want to give a little leeway to those of us who have experienced those horrors and became desperate enough to look for any relief.

I myself swore I would never go to AA, yet here I am defending it. Never would have believed it just 5 years ago.

Hate God and religion all you want. It works for some of us, and for that reason alone, I would hope that people in recovery would be wished well instead of demeaned for clinging to hope wherever and however they can get it as long as no one else is harmed in the process.

Does this mean they are beyond criticism?

What I can say is that AA operates in many ways that are similar to organizations I would consider cults including organized resistance to criticism. I'm not so sure AA is a cult, but they do operate from the cult playbook. The big differences are AA doesn't really make financial demands of it's members and doesn't aggressively recruit new members.

I work in transplant, and many liver trasplant candidates were once heavy drinkers, but were also able to stop on their own, once told. They are still evaluated for alcoholism. It's the ones that don't stop when told "stop or die" you really have to seriously consider immediate Alcoholism. And we have only a 6 month sobriety requirement.

Best to moderate. Always.

even get on the list because of his abuse back in 1987.

That's an ugly way path to take, hard on the person, hard on the family.

was a daily cocktail hour, whether a cocktail party or scotch or martinis served at tea time, for those who didn't want just tea. Also, various wines were served at the meals with each course with brandy or cordials after. By all the wisdom of the day, everyone should have gotten liver transplants because of the frequency and amount of alcohol served, yet most people remained healthy and sober.

I spent a lot of time pondering the differences of both cultures considering a streak of alcoholism with the accompanying diseases that ran in my USA family. My Chilean family did not have the alcoholism or the diseases yet they drank. I finally realized it was because the drinking in Chile always accompanied meals. I believe the food probably absorbed the toxins in the alcohol. Here in the USA I noticed that people spent hours drinking before having a meal or even instead of a meal.

I know this isn't scientific, but it seems that Mediterranean cultures in Europe have similar outcomes. Maybe it's something that should be studied. I myself have adopted a hybrid approach, where I drink socially but otherwise don't so I may go months without even a glass of beer and I always make sure that I eat before such an evening or at least during. I'm almost 75 and my liver, heart and BP are fine.

I knew a few myself, but the culture would seem by our standards to have a society of dysfunctional drunks, yet it wasn't so. Scientists should really try to come up with some empirical evidence because I find our prohibition style condemnations aren't helpful.

In the English-speaking world that relationship was destroyed by Calvinist Protestantism, creating an unhealthy bipolar culture of binging, followed by guilt and shame, followed by self-repression, which breaks down back into binging.

drinking just to get drunk.

We don't come near to finishing off a whole bottle. But it adds to the meal nicely and we like it.

It's all good.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I have up close and and personal experiences with alcoholism as well as the stories from field I work in. We have patients known to make 'cocktails' out of our hand sanitizer, which happens to be 70% ethyl alcohol

There are people who abuse a good thing, but that could apply to food, chocolate or even exercise. To me a real alcoholic, one who should never touch a drink, is one who can't stop. Even functioning alcoholics like Bush or Boehner are real alcoholics because they always keep it in their system. They can't walk away from it for a period of time without withdrawal.

Obviously a certain level of excess is going to present it's own problems and may lead to alcoholism.

Some people can't handle a drop others can be heavy or quite a bit more and never become entangled in addiction to the substance while others may develop dependence (admitted or not) but never cross over into the behaviors.

I see little point into trying to over simplify the issue, it just isn't representative of actual reality in the big picture. Individually? Absolutely, but by the same token I've laid eyes on about every outcome and most are okay. The exceptions are a damn mess for sure.

A day keeps me in the moderate drinker category. I have always worried what people thought.

Hell, I used to drink 8 at one sitting and THEN decide whether to drink or not! One or two drinks in a night is nothing. Sissy stuff.

Lil Missy
Recovering Alcoholic

I'd have like eight a night and think nothing of it. A lot more on Fridays and Saturdays. And I would smoke like crazy, too.

One or two a night during my drinking days wasn't even in my vocabulary.

The Early, Adaptive Stage of Alcoholism

One of the first symptoms of alcoholism is, ironically and tragically, an ability to increase alcohol intake and still function “normally.” It is ironic because most diseases incur immediate and obvious penalties, not benefits, and result in reduced functioning rather than improvement in functioning. But in the early stages of alcoholism, the alcoholic is not sick, in pain, or visibly abnormal. In fact, the early, adaptive stage of alcoholism appears to be marked by the opposite of disease, for the alcoholic is “blessed” with a supernormal ability to tolerate alcohol and enjoy its euphoric and stimulating effects. This improvement in functioning is tragic because the alcoholic has little or no warning of the deterioration inevitably to follow.

In the early stage, the disease is subtle and difficult to recognize. It is characterized by adaptations in the liver and central nervous system, increased tolerance to alcohol, and improved performance when drinking. >>>

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/alcohol-drug-addiction/under-the-influence/disease-of-addiction-an-expanded-overview/

I don't like one glass of wine when I'm relaxing on a "wine night". Three or four, or maybe the whole bottle. But then I don't want to even think about wine again for at least two or three days later. My body says "Ugh" and I rehydrate for a few days. But I have the good sense to drink at home with hubby or friends/neighbors, and NEVER drive. I'm quite a congenial drunk on my wine nights, probably more lovable than argumentative, I'm told, and my major sin is logging on to DU and strongly expressing my opinions. 😄 And even then i have the courtesy to check my spelling.

The vast majority of the people I have known throughout my life who abused/abuse alcohol are not alcoholics or actually dependent. Over the years in school, at jobs, in the military, family, at the golf courses, social circles, etc, etc I have known (and partied excessively myself) with hundreds of people that abused alcohol, maybe ten out of that bunch I would say were alcoholics, most I would put in the heavy or binge drinker categories.

Every hour

IMO it goes all the way back to Alcoholics Anonymous and using "recovery programs" as a tool for proselytizing.

The god stuff really messes with some people's minds at a time when they are at their weakest.

perhaps, it's all good

just like the Beastie Boys.

I love you guys...