Or that's what it meant when it was commonly used in 2003.

Eisenhower would have abhorred the phrase as it is currently used.

you're suspect- "UnAmerican", somehow subversive. It's a command to not think or question the military-industrial complex.

Guess what... You, through your votes, are the ones that sent us on our merry way.

You chose the leaders, civilian leaders, who make the final call about where me and mine go.

Support the troops means don't be an ass to us about what we do because you are the one who sent us there.

... is to not lightly or foolishly place you in harm's way. I agree with you about not electing people who are likely to do that.

I consistently vote against war mongering asswipes.

and I'm hardly the only one. Just because YOU and your ilk vote for war mongers, doesn't mean others do not.

rah fucking rah, Okto.

Since you didn't win, you absolve yourself of all responsibility...

Mighty... mighty convenient for you...

Maybe you and yours need to do a better job and get some folks on your side if you want to have some influence about where me and mine go and what we do. Your inability to make a case and win makes you just as responsible.

and yes, I'm absolved of responsibility for our stupid foreign entanglements. I've voted against it through how I vote. I've marched in D.C. against it.

and you sure as shit haven't made even the slightest of cases. Sorry I don't bow down to the fucking military. too bad.

countless civilians in the middle east.

... with your leaders. Mine too btw...

Even if you didn't vote for him, Barack Obama is still your President.

Maybe next time you'll make a more convincing case and things will turn out the way you like. Wouldn't that be nice?

I do so love irony.

I've communicated with my elected officials. (I don't call them leaders like you do- that reflects just the mentality I oppose).

I did vote for President Obama because of his anti Iraq war rhetoric. sadly, it was just rhetoric.

And it has nothing whatsofucking ever to do with one voter not having made a "convincing case". You seem to have no idea what you're prattling on about- or you're simply being disingenuous as all get out.

Hitting close to home I think

I've often wondered at the mindlessness that comes up with that nonsense retort. I'd never stoop to that. it's what people say when they don't really have a thoughtful response.

... when their thoughtful responses have been ignored because they make the recipient uncomfortable.

You can't realistically expect folks to continue to engage with you if you are just going to do the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing the Star Spangled Banner.

it's utterly nonsensical to hold people who have voted against our military adventures and protested against them, responsible for what those in elected office do. that's the sum total of your silly "argument", dear.

definitely follows vacuous nonsense clung to vociferously and defended with
nothing at all.

nt

The hypocrisy that chafed my hide was the whole "Oh, we are threatened if we say anything bad" and the total abrogation of responsibility when Joe Blow civilian is the reason I go where I go.

This whole thing was about the meaning of "Support the Troops". That means not being an ass to us about what we do when you are the one who sent us there.

You have to try pretty hard to get a 0% chance to serve jury duty on DU. You obviously voted for GWB twice, that warmongering old freak McShame, and the 47% brainless robot Rmoney.

You obviously have no clue about the extent of military service of many DUers here. Do you think you are the only one here that can speak on military matters?

Working my way down the list...

No, No, Yes, WTF are you talking about?...

Maybe you should age a bit before acting like you know more than everyone here. The average age here is probably around 50. We've seen more and lived more. Have a great day.

Everyone in uniform is there willingly. No one held a gun to their head and said sign up. No judge ordered them in to the military with the threat of jail if they did not.

Every few years many of not most sign up again, and again. Where you go is not your discretion. If you go certainly is. You can't be sent if you don't sign up. You can't be deployed if you are not in.

The troops are far from blameless. But they do not bear the lions share of the blame. I was only following orders was rejected without exception at the war crimes trials after world war two. Each soldier has a moral and legal duty to refuse an unlawful order. They don't refuse. They are not blameless.

... I'll be sure not to follow it.

She's not alone. Many troops are following illegal orders every single day. It's the new world, the new war. The rules are different they're told. They lie, because they are told that if they tell the truth, they'll be in trouble for taking action they thought they needed to in order to survive.

From planting weapons on people to justify the killing, to lying about the situation when the shots were fired. Illegal actions are taking place all the time. Is it any wonder that these people when they come home, join the police, and continue the lies?

Let's look at some common video available. A video of the A-10 strafing runs. Some of these are in training or demonstrations. Most are not.

I'm quite comfortable with mine.

YOU VOLUNTEERED.

Seemed like you kind of stutter stepped there and never wrapped it up...

Last edited Sat Nov 29, 2014, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Geezus Keerist.

... and?

We are not being "asses" because we don't think the troops should be sent to a certain place.

Good grief, that's supposedly what the troops are "defending." Our freedom to elect our leaders, to disagree with them, to speak up about what they do. Or that we think our freedoms are not in danger in a certain situation and no one has to defend them.

It's a demand bullies who love war make.

And the threat was actually spoken to me.
I had a small business in a southern town and had made critical statements about the war, and received a visitor one day that warned me to "support the troops"or I would not be welcome there.
Ever sense then I have hated that phrase...and when I see it used again today it just pisses me off.

about the meaning of the word "support". and thanks for bringing that baseless myth into play.

in doing something I oppose?

I don't think many people spit on troops anymore. I think the message is about and about supporting the MIC. That phrase, to me, is authoritarian jingoism, and sometimes coercive, if it's trying to tell people what to think and feel.

What does Noam Chomsky mean?

Soldiers may need to follow commands, but it is duty of civilians to question those commands to make sure soldiers are not misused as was the case in Iraq.

It is also duty of civilians to see that adequate supplies are there for the duration and then adequate care is provided after the duration.

It does. It mean to be rah rah pro military ever time the military wants to flex its muscles. Even though it affects troop morale when the folks at home are not rah rah for a war, that is because it shouldn't exist and civilians are supporting the troops by trying to see they are not abused by the MIC.

sayings it means what you think it means. That's the beauty of their messages. They sound very serious but don't have a definition. "Family values" is a perfect example. Buying magnetic bumper ribbons made in china does not help anyone but the people making the magnets but most people feel like they helped.

People who don't "support the troops" are probably irresponsible hypocrites. We elected the people who sent the troops to whatever mess we sent them. The only ones who can legitimately say they are withholding their support for the troops are those who did not vote. The non-voters are irresponsible, but at least they are not hypocrites.

It's a little like shunning the people who plow the roads in the winter because you are unhappy they knocked over your neighbor's mailbox, or you don't like the list of roads the city keeps plowed.

To me, "support the troops" ought to mean something other than the right-wing meme that we support military adventurism by waving flags and shouting "Hoorah!" whenever some politician (preferably Republican and/or Tea Party, since this is a right-wing meme) decides to send troops abroad on some right-wing neo-con folly.

To me, it means support the people who actually go. Give to the USO. Find a veteran's organization that supports those guys and gals when they return home. Give to something like the Disabled Veterans of America or the Paralyzed Veterans of America. Do something other than hand the troops the short end of the stick that the GOPsters and Tea-baggers do when they come home and re-enter the civilian world.

That when our President or Congress proposes missions for our troops that are illegal or unjust I must speak out, demonstrate and write letters to ensure that they are not called to do dishonorable things. To be honest, I rarely effect the outcome of a soldier's life but I have educated a fare number of Americans in the process.

During the Iraq confrontation we had a memorial in the front yard. We used orange marker flags to mark each death. It was a memorial to all who served in the American armed services. Four years and 5500 marker flags later we finally decided that our time would be better spent volunteering as opposed to pulling flags, mowing and resetting every three weeks. I can not say that I saved a soldier's life but I know that we educated many people by providing a clear visual of what that war was doing to our troops. One university professor would bring his class by every quarter. Many notes were left in the front door. Most were supportive and thankful but not all.

I think as Americans we are responsible for the actions and safety of our troops. As futile as it is, we still need to contact our elected officials and speak out. We need to demand that they have the protective gear they need and the health care that they deserve. To me ...that is supporting the troops.

and all those fools paying the cable company for more of the same ever since?
they are culpable fools.

http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

anybody dumb enough to think Support the Troops had real meaning other
than shutting up the yokels?
pitiful.

during Vietnam. We protested the war, but the troops were looked upon as contributors. Sad, in retrospect, that those kids were treated with no respect when they came home. My BIL came home (twice) so fucked up on drugs. He ended up committing suicide by walking on the freeway after leaving "to get a beer" during an Angel game.

It all became the hippies vs the soldiers (and the so-called rednecks at the time).

The stories I hear coming out of the wars are horrific. Murder, abuse, torture. This is not only on the news, but from the mouths of those who have been there. As you may know, Savannah is close to Fort Stewart, the largest city close by. So we have our fair share of soldiers including Rangers who are stationed at Hunter Army Airfield. Apparently I am easy to talk to, because they tell me stories. One time you hear it, you are want to dismiss it as improbable. The next time, you hope it is improbable. After that, you know it is happening.

Our soldiers are lying much like our police ar. An example. a firefight breaks out. Everyone is shooting back and forth. An innocent is trapped between the two warring parties. Eventually, the innocent gets hit by one side, or the other. Sad, certainly. But obviously a mistake, an accident. Perhaps we can learn and change policies from such things. But instead, the soldiers know that questions will be asked, and charges of misconduct and even murder are possible. So they lay a weapon on the body that they store in the vehicles for just such an occasion.

I just talked to a man two weeks ago about this. He saw several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. A retired Army Sergeant First Class. He told me of wiping out an entire village when the unit was hit by IED's, despite no bomb making materials or weapons being found. The reason? The hole was not dug invisibly. The locals all knew, and that made them collaborators. That made them as guilty as those who dug the pit and put the bomb there.

If I am hearing these stories, imagine what the press is hearing, and not reporting. Imagine the atrocities that we are not hearing about. Because we tell our soldiers to lie. We tell our soldiers that we will not forgive, or learn from an honest mistake. No wonder they are committing suicide in record numbers. They believed they were fighting with and serving with honor. Then they commit atrocities that they know are far too similar to what they learned about as abominations from history.

Ill conceived policy on high extends to the lowest ranks of our soldiers. It is the result when the ends justify the means as the only goal. The what is important, the how is equally important. It's past time we put a stop to it. Starting at the top, and working our way down, layer upon layer. Until every soldier understands that we do not find this acceptable under any circumstance.

I know, you don't want to believe your sons or daughters, neighbors or friends are involved. That wall of silence is what puts so much pressure on our troops. Remember Lynndie England? http://www.marieclaire.com/world-reports/news/lynndie-england-1

Read that interview, it is a total breakdown of discipline, a breakdown of accountability at every single level of the military. Soldiers do what they're told to do, and when the military needs a scapegoat, they bust the soldier who did it. A few bad apples excuse again.

We want to pretend that the few bad apples are the only ones doing it. Sadly, I'm starting to think most of them do, because a great many have told me so many similar stories. All you have to do is earn their trust, and listen. They will tell you the stories, and your heart will break.

I mentioned the retired Sergeant First Class above. I told him that killing that village was murder. He said no, that was war, and I didn't understand that, and never would. You kill them all, because they're all in on it. Us versus them.

We have become that which I was taught to detest. We have become that which I was told we were better than. History tells stories like these, and they are called atrocities. They are called war crimes. The problem is, you have to lose the war to be held accountable. So long as we have might makes right, we'll never see anyone held accountable.

I'm just curious as to why this SFC would tell you this story or his experience, because it's unusual. It's especially unusual that he claimed his unit wiped out a whole village. What village? What is it exactly that you do?

We are those who do the ugly and the humanitarian things that our Commander in Chief (CINC) tells us to do. We rarely do it for that reason alone. The predominant reason is to protect each other and be at each other's side. Many of us are ignorant and believe what foolish politicians feed us and some of us don't. We all have what we consider an honorable and sacred duty in keeping with the oath we took. We are tools and all U.S. citizens have a responsibility to ensure that those using the tools are the right people for the job.
You don't have to like us, but realize that we must exist (however unpleasant the thought is) and we don't get to choose our missions. While some twist the words "support the troops" into supporting a political ideology, I would like to think smarter people know that brash young men and women who are brave and are easily impressionable, deserve your support nonetheless, for taking a step in doing what others won't. My brothers and sisters are noble and will sacrifice everything for each other! I love them for that and who they are; That is what support the troops really means! You don't have to show it, just know it. Semper-Fi

in Animal Farm, where sheep bleat that over and over to drown out dissent.

While there are people who genuinely want to demonstrate their support for troops in harm's way (especially if they have loved ones among them), I've often seen "Support the troops" used on TV and in person as a way to shut up anyone who questions or is against military actions.

"We're at war!" was another such phrase used by neo-cons after 9/11 to shout down dissent.

support the current war. We're always at war. Remember what Orwell said, "If you want to have peace you have to have war." Nah, that was Bush.
Who ever said they were against the troops. It comes in handy because voting against a bloated, corrupt defense budget automatically labels you as against the troops and in favor of the days' ism, be it terrorism, communism etc.....
Eisenhower warned us.

I'm glad to support and help pay their salary by paying taxes. I certainly have nothing bad to say against them, simply because I don't know them personally. As a group, it depends on what they are doing whether I'm happy with their actions or not. The bottom line: Most people are glad to love/like our troops in the same way as some people I work with > I like their company but they piss me off sometimes 'cause they simply "piss me off"

Just like I can't stand "God Bless America" (both blasphemous, jingoistic, and inappropriately religious) and besides, "America the Beautiful" is a much nicer song. But then, I'm a moderate radical.

How about God help America? Better yet, God forgive America. Yes, I'm an atheist.

you're not really supporting them.

Of course praying is a form of support. But if you want to support the deployed, go next door and help the family that's left behind get caught up on work that needs done around the house. Send care packages to those overseas, or just a post card.

My neighbor is back now, but I did loads of home maintenance for his family while he was away. I took their 3 kids often on day trips to get them out of his DWs hair for a while. We sent goody boxes to him every month while he was gone.

I did the same thing for my best friend when he was called up for the first Gulf war when I was only 20. He left behind a wife that didn't have a clue about America was or the area they'd moved so he could attend college.

I guess I'm kind of slacking now in the fact that we only send mail and holiday boxes to a young kid in our church that Joined up last year but is not deployed. I've watched him grow from a 3 year old kid into a man now out on his own.

It's a throwaway just like when people walk up to a military person and says thank you for your service. I don't get it. What service?
The check out clerk at Wal Mart is the one who provides a service.

Stupid meaningless slogans are for easily manipulated fools.

Lip service. Words care more profitable than actions.

about not serving.

"Whether or not I agree with this war, I do not hold a personal grudge against our troops and I wish them a safe return."

That's how I feel and in that sense I do.

Or else.

Most of the people who i know who have served or are serving in the military have said that the only support that they care about is if you actually put on a uniform and join them on the battlefield. Otherwise they couldn't give two shits about what color ribbons that you have on your car.

Support the troops: demand their return!

During the Iraq war.