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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:53 AM Dec 2014

Not concern trolling: police cameras and privacy

(Yes, I know if you have to put "I'm not trolling" in the subject line that's usually a bad sign...)

So, I'm a big fan of the idea of body cameras on police officers. I have literally only one concern that I think can be addressed by legal and technical fixes, but I think it's important enough to at least bring it up.

Police spend a lot of time seeing people at their very worst and/or most vulnerable: domestic violence calls, drunk & disorderlies, adult/senior protective calls, suicide threats, etc.. In a lot of cases, if you're talking to a police officer you're probably at a stage in your life that you don't want spread on the Internet.

So, what kind of technical and legal safeguards can be put in place to protect the privacy of the civilians cops deal with on a daily basis?

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Not concern trolling: police cameras and privacy (Original Post) Recursion Dec 2014 OP
I guess there could be a timneline after which videos are erased... if no charges follow. Hoppy Dec 2014 #1
So, for instance, if the police respond to a suicide situation Recursion Dec 2014 #2
All video is date/time/person stamped, citizens enjoy privacy rights. FOIA exemptions: NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #3
And if police are coordinating with EMS I guess HIPAA gets involved too (nt) Recursion Dec 2014 #4
I should think so. My first thought, however, was the rights of models, the model release. NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #5
And, I know this is the usual stonewalling rubric, but what about "ongoing investigations"? Recursion Dec 2014 #9
The cops are able to turn off the device. gerogie2 Dec 2014 #10
Well then what keeps them from turning it off right before they beat or shoot some guy? (nt) Recursion Dec 2014 #11
There will be a department policy on the use of the device. gerogie2 Dec 2014 #24
There's a department policy on not shooting people, too (nt) Recursion Dec 2014 #25
There is no such policy. The police can defend themselves and others from people trying to hurt or gerogie2 Dec 2014 #26
Or a sexual assault of some kind jberryhill Dec 2014 #7
That's why there needs to be a legal component too Recursion Dec 2014 #8
According to an interview I heard on NPR today, only interactions are permanently recorded csziggy Dec 2014 #6
Huh. If it's up to the PD's discretion what they release we're not terribly better off, though... Recursion Dec 2014 #12
True - and there should be consequence for officers who do NOT set to save csziggy Dec 2014 #22
OT Question Derek V Dec 2014 #13
Well, it could look a lot like what I just asked, but it's when the intention Recursion Dec 2014 #14
It is a favored well poisoning device at DU jberryhill Dec 2014 #15
Thank You Derek V Dec 2014 #17
Its no different than the cameras already used in the police cars... Historic NY Dec 2014 #16
police cars don't go inside people's homes jberryhill Dec 2014 #18
Too funny then don't call them.... Historic NY Dec 2014 #21
It's when police are inside homes that they should have the cameras running. rgbecker Dec 2014 #19
Cameras are not a real or sufficient solution. woo me with science Dec 2014 #20
True - cameras just make it possible to shine a light on cops' actions csziggy Dec 2014 #23
Cameras are meaningless without accountability Scootaloo Dec 2014 #27
 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
1. I guess there could be a timneline after which videos are erased... if no charges follow.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:58 AM
Dec 2014

Beyond that, it can all be made public through freedom of info suits.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
2. So, for instance, if the police respond to a suicide situation
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:59 AM
Dec 2014

The video of them talking the jumper down can be FOIA'd?

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
3. All video is date/time/person stamped, citizens enjoy privacy rights. FOIA exemptions:
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:04 AM
Dec 2014

Violations of these rights bring charges against the person who is IDed to have taken the video.
Videos should be archived, not destroyed.


Exemption 6

Personal privacy interests are protected by two provisions of the FOIA,
Exemptions 6 and 7(C). While the application of Exemption 7(C), discussed below, is
limited to information compiled for law enforcement purposes, Exemption 6 permits
the government to withhold all information about individuals in "personnel and
medical files and similar files" when the disclosure of such information "would
constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy." (1) These exemptions
are a vitally important part of the FOIA's statutory scheme, (2) but of course they
cannot be invoked to withhold from a requester information pertaining only to
himself. (3)


Initial Considerations

To warrant protection under Exemption 6, information must first meet its
threshold requirement; in other words, it must fall within the category of "personnel
and medical files and similar files." (4) Personnel and medical files are easily identified,
but there has not always been universal agreement about the meaning of the term
"similar files." Prior to 1982, judicial interpretations of that phrase varied
considerably and included a troublesome line of cases in the Court of Appeals for
the District of Columbia Circuit, commencing with Board of Trade v. Commodity
Futures Trading Commission, (5) which narrowly construed the term to encompass
only "intimate" personal details.

In 1982, the Supreme Court acted decisively to resolve this controversy once
and for all. In United States Department of State v. Washington Post Co., (6) it firmly
held, based upon a review of the legislative history of the FOIA, that Congress
intended the term to be interpreted broadly, rather than narrowly. (7) The Court
stated that the protection of an individual's privacy "surely was not intended to turn
upon the label of the file which contains the damaging information." (8) Rather, the
Court made clear that all information that "applies to a particular individual" meets
the threshold requirement for Exemption 6 protection. (9) This means, of course, that
this threshold is met if the information applies to any particular, identifiable
individual -- which makes it readily satisfied in all but the most unusual cases of
questionable identifiability. (10)

The D.C. Circuit, sitting en banc, subsequently reinforced the Supreme Court's
broad interpretation of this term by holding that a tape recording of the last words
of the Space Shuttle Challenger crew, which "reveal[ed] the sound and inflection of
the crew's voices during the last seconds of their lives . . . contains personal
information the release of which is subject to the balancing of the public gain
against the private harm at which it is purchased." (11) Not only did the D.C. Circuit
determine that "lexical" and "non-lexical" information are subject to identical
treatment under the FOIA, (12) it also concluded that Exemption 6 is equally applicable
to the "author" and the "subject" of a file. (13)

Once it has been established that information meets the threshold
requirement of Exemption 6, the focus of the inquiry turns to whether disclosure of
the records at issue "would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal
privacy." (14) This requires a balancing of the public's right to disclosure against the
individual's right to privacy. (15) First, it must be ascertained whether a protectible
privacy interest exists that would be threatened by disclosure. If no privacy interest
is found, further analysis is unnecessary and the information at issue must be
disclosed. (16)

On the other hand, if a privacy interest is found to exist, the public interest in
disclosure, if any, must be weighed against the privacy interest in nondisclosure. (17) If
no public interest exists, the information should be protected; as the D.C. Circuit has
observed, "something, even a modest privacy interest, outweighs nothing every
time." (18) Similarly, if the privacy interest outweighs the public interest, the
information should be withheld; if the opposite is found to be the case, the
information should be released. (19)

http://www.justice.gov/oip/foia-guide-2004-edition-exemption-6


 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
5. I should think so. My first thought, however, was the rights of models, the model release.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:12 AM
Dec 2014

That principal that prevents one's likeness from being published without permission.

Then I Googled FOIA + privacy and found Exemption 6, which I think is applicable in most of the cases we might imagine.

It's a very good question in any event. A lot of footage is going to be recorded, much of it potentially embarrassing or damaging and users of the FOIA need to present a compelling reason to access such things.

Now, I'm all for FOIA requests being honored for looking at police conduct, but any video should be edited to obscure identities of civilians.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
9. And, I know this is the usual stonewalling rubric, but what about "ongoing investigations"?
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:43 AM
Dec 2014

I can definitely think of some scenarios (talking to informants, etc.) where there is a legitimate need for the Police to keep some of what they do secret.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
10. The cops are able to turn off the device.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:58 AM
Dec 2014

This is mostly going to be used in confrontations or documenting a drunk driver type situation. A cop is not going to be recording their informants so they can be put on youtube after a FOIA request.

 

gerogie2

(450 posts)
26. There is no such policy. The police can defend themselves and others from people trying to hurt or
Thu Dec 4, 2014, 03:02 AM
Dec 2014

kill.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
7. Or a sexual assault of some kind
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:41 AM
Dec 2014

There can be all the rules in the world.

A video of something awful will find its way to the Internet.

It is like water finding the lowest level.

No way there isn't some idjit working for the Podunk police department who isn't going to think "wow, I should let Billy Bob see this."

I was visiting a relatively small island a while back. Population about 50k people. There was a rare and particularly grisly murder/suicide. Some of the first responders took cell phone pictures on the sly and within 24 hours, my estimate was about 20% of the population had it on their phone and about 75% had seen the worst one.

It might be a good idea to build in certain technical safeguards around how and in what form the images can be extracted from the camera device - like a DRM system of some kind to keep Billy Bob from loading it onto a usb stick as an unencrypted .mp4. But the horse will have long left the barn.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. That's why there needs to be a legal component too
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:42 AM
Dec 2014

Auditing the custody trail and penalties for when Billy Bob lets Cleetus see the "fun" from last night.

csziggy

(34,137 posts)
6. According to an interview I heard on NPR today, only interactions are permanently recorded
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:05 AM
Dec 2014

The interview can be listened to or you can read the transcript at the link below. Here is the most relevant part:

Body Cameras For Police Officers Aren't A Panacea
December 02, 2014 4:17 PM ET
Martin Kaste

President Obama has asked for $263 million to help local police buy body cameras, among other things. Cameras are easy to buy but are not a fix for issues between police departments and their communities.

Copyright © 2014 NPR. For personal, noncommercial use only. See Terms of Use. For other uses, prior permission required.

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST
<SNIP>
MARTIN KASTE, BYLINE: Well, they're pointed at the public. They're worn on the body, either on the chest or on your glasses, and they're always rolling, like a black box in an airplane. They're constantly recording and then they just keep overwriting that data until an interaction with the public starts. Then the officer touches a button and they start to save the video and they're supposed to keep saving video until the officer touches the button again at the end of the interaction. At the end of his or her shift, the officer hooks it into some kind of a portal and that video is saved into a database or a cloud service.

CORNISH: And some police departments have used these cameras for the last couple of years. Have they been shown to improve their relationship with the public?

KASTE: It's something of a mixed record. The proponents of these cameras point to Rialto, California - one of the early adopters. In 2012, when they first started using these cameras, they say the complaints against their officers fell by 88 percent. So there's a sense here that it keeps everybody honest - the police officer, but the public too, so you don't get unfounded complaints.

But in other places, like New Orleans, which is a troubled department and the federal government has been looking over their shoulders, they bought cameras for all of their patrol officers earlier this spring. But when I spent some time there with the independent monitor who keeps tabs on complaints - public's complaints - against the officers, that monitor kept running into the problem of missing video. They would find that there was no video made or there was a technical problem and that tended to happen in situations where the officers were under suspicion of doing something wrong.

More: http://www.npr.org/2014/12/02/368041080/body-cameras-for-police-officers-arent-a-panacea


They go on to discuss more about specific cases of use of the cameras and problems associated with them. It's not a long interview. It appears that honest police departments really like them while crooked ones (New Orleans) don't - my interpretation. Go figure.

csziggy

(34,137 posts)
22. True - and there should be consequence for officers who do NOT set to save
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:50 PM
Dec 2014

Their interactions with the public or who turn off the cameras without permission.

I wonder how long it will take for an app to show up to pirate the cops' video signal to save it all to an off site location? That would be awesome!

 

Derek V

(532 posts)
13. OT Question
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 03:08 AM
Dec 2014

What the heck is concern trolling? I've seen the term dozens of times on various websites and STILL have no clue what it means! (I do know what "regular" trolling is, though.)

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
14. Well, it could look a lot like what I just asked, but it's when the intention
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 03:10 AM
Dec 2014

is just to stir up fake "concern" about an issue to turn people off of it.

A canonical example might be, say back in the 2012 election:

"I really want Obama to win, but I heard that he wants to kill all white people. Somebody talk me down."

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
15. It is a favored well poisoning device at DU
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 03:23 AM
Dec 2014

The accusation is used to impugn the motives of the poster as an mechanism to dismiss the poster's opinion .
The suspicion is that instead of coming out with a direct opinion like "I don't favor abolishing slavery" the odious opinion is couched in concern for hypothetical negative consequences like, "Slavery is bad, but if we just turn them loose from the plantations, those poor people will starve." That way the poster can raise an objection to abolishing slavery without actually appearing to oppose it .
You will see comments like "your concern is duly noted" so that the accusation can also be made indirectly. "I didn't call you a troll, I was duly noting your concern."

The simple rule? You, of course, know whether you are a troll, a paid shill or what have you . If you are not one of those things, and someone accuses you of being one, then you have learned something valuable about the person accusing you of such .

Historic NY

(37,453 posts)
16. Its no different than the cameras already used in the police cars...
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 04:36 AM
Dec 2014

if something turns up or they aren't going to be used for court they get taped over in 30-60 days. The same policy would prevail.

Historic NY

(37,453 posts)
21. Too funny then don't call them....
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 11:26 AM
Dec 2014

people are screaming for accountability and when this is proposed, its the oh noes that come out... can't have it both ways.

The cameras that are in used around the country work both ways. They protect the police and the civilians, against unsubstantiated claims. The city next to me the police dept wants them, it has one of the highest per captia crime rate for a small city in NY state.

rgbecker

(4,834 posts)
19. It's when police are inside homes that they should have the cameras running.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 08:50 AM
Dec 2014

Nobody is talking about putting up videos on the internet. This is about having evidence of whatever the police are up to all the time. How these videos get to the internet now is a good question. Could it be they have been entered as evidence in a contended arrest?

I think the cameras will benefit the police as much as the public.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
20. Cameras are not a real or sufficient solution.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 09:01 AM
Dec 2014

Cameras only add another pseudo-protective layer to this fascist police state.

The only real answer is an actual reversal of the militarization of the police, reversal of the looting of our nation, and reversal of the transformation of our cities into exploitation zones like Ferguson.

What we need is not cameras to oversee the police state. We need to demand that the police state *itself,* the militarization *itself* be dismantled, along with the corporate takeover of this nation.

What a shock that in all the corporate news coverage of Ferguson, the programs that actually militarize the police, the programs that have exploded even under this Democratic administration, are never mentioned at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025897324

csziggy

(34,137 posts)
23. True - cameras just make it possible to shine a light on cops' actions
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:52 PM
Dec 2014

While we need cops that are more in touch with their communities not cops that hide behind military equipment and procedures.

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