but only if we do more then just acknowledge the past. You have clean the wound before dressing it.

So, Yes.

And the ACLU wants pardons?

If that's truly the case, then they have received their last dollar of support from me.

Was that if you pardon someone it is an acknowledgment that the crime occurred. Not that they deserve a pardon.

And Obama is not complicit no matter how desperately you want it to be so.

and no I don't "desperately want Obama to be complicit". In fact i desperately wish none of this shit ever happened.

I still think lack of prosecution and even the tacit dismissal of the seriousness of these crimes--"yeah, we tortured some folks" --make Obama complicit.

he is complicit. Period.

But the "if" is a question that MUST be definitively answered.

If I were faster i could be an Olympic sprinter.

If Bush hadn't gone to war in Iraq none of this would be happening.

The question has been answered well enough for those who don't wish for his guilt.

between running a torture program and having out of control cops killing kids with impunity. But you were saying something about the NBA, I'm sorry, please go on.

Say what you mean.

Also, please outline, specifically, the process in which the torturers would be brought to justice. Where would the trial be? Who would be in charge of the prosecution and under what specific authority?

Also, please tell me how the POTUS could overrule a county grand jury that does not seek an indictment. Tell me how that works.

In detail.

Bush et al are responsible. They need to be held accountable.

George Santayana

This needs to be wallowed in and learned from, not flushed down the news hole.

"Moving forward" has always been the 'murkan translation of "NO ONE will EVER be held accountable. EVER."

Obama did nothing to strengthen the criminal statutes against torture. Both the Torture Act and the War Crimes Act need to be amended so that they unambiguously criminalize waterboarding and other "harsh interrogation techniques." Obama and Congress failed in 2009 to pass such legislation. Instead we got a weak-kneed executive order that can be easily rescinded.

If you don't admit that a crime occured and you don't have remorse there is no way to move forward. Now for everyone who was against the war to begin with they didn't do anything wrong and don't have anything to admit. But, like all victims (and I consider most people in this country victims of what the Bush Administration did) at least have an acknowledgement of the crimes committed in our names. But, these are also crimes against us. This war did a lot to cripple our economy and we are still paying and it could be the for the next 50 years or more.