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Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:22 PM Dec 2014

I was asked what America could do to try to regain the moral high ground?

This was my response:


Our nation needs to stop making expedient choices and adhere to our basic principles.

We are ostensibly a nation that believes in free speech and media; impartial courts; fair and free elections; religious freedom without state interference or endorsement; the freedom to arm oneself (or the freedom for states within the nation to arm themselves - depending on one's interpretation); the right not to be compelled to self-incriminate and not to be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment.

1: We need to practice what we preach. Admitting wrongdoing is a start. Prosecuting the wrongdoers would be better, although I harbor doubts as to whether this will happen.

2: We need to craft a foreign policy that defines "American interest" as joining with nations that support those principles, and not allying with nations out of simple economic interest. That means not selling arms or sending troops to defend monarchies that practice slavery and religious intolerance (i.e. Saudi Arabia, et. al.); not selling arms or sending troops to defend dictators (the list is too long). One thing in which I am in complete agreement with some on the right: we should not be sending US troops to nations that will not allow those troops to practice their faith openly and freely. I'd add that we should not send troops to any nation that treats our female soldiers and sailors as second-class citizens.

3: We need in all things to think longer term. It is cheaper and quicker to drill for more oil or strip mine more coal, but it's bad for the long-run, even if it causes short term pain to build more subsidized wind farms and encouraging the use of solar panels. We need to be more self-sufficient, more self-sustaining, and better stewards of natural resources.

4: America needs to become far less focused on world leadership and more focused on national and regional development. Want a secure southern border? Build a stronger economy and a better democracy in Mexico. Want an ally in Cuba? End the embargo, and make clear that democratic and economic advances in the post-Castro years (which are coming) will be met with increased US engagement. The US needs to stop feeling compelled to send troops to solve conflicts in the Middle East that, at the end of the day, are not our problem.

5: Tax and economic policy that leads toward the banana republic economic model (5% or less of the people owning 90% or more of the land and business) is incompatible with representative democracy, and needs to stop.

6: I support free trade, but I also support fair trade. We either need to not trade, or impose high tariffs on goods from nations that deny their workers basic rights; deny their workers decent pay; or engage in practices such as forcing female workers to obtain abortions as a condition of employment, or who engage in child labor.


My guess is that you might have additional, different, or better ideas. I'd invite your thoughts.
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I was asked what America could do to try to regain the moral high ground? (Original Post) Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2014 OP
Round them up. rug Dec 2014 #1
America needs to end disaster capitalism. The system is rigged against the majority of RKP5637 Dec 2014 #2
I'd start by shutting down Fox News Neon Gods Dec 2014 #3
+1 LiberalLoner Dec 2014 #5
We need a credible, accessible counterweight Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2014 #15
All of the above! onecaliberal Dec 2014 #4
Why would the rulers do this? immoderate Dec 2014 #6
We can lead our leaders by example. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #7
We clearly need to expect more Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2014 #12
Yes. And as always it begins with ourselves. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #13
Excellent. Every point. K&R. JDPriestly Dec 2014 #8
We have plenty of local referendums, how about a national vote on torture? bhikkhu Dec 2014 #9
Didn't we have a national vote on torture when the 8th Amendment was ratified? Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2014 #11
Need to begin to give a flying rat's ass first. Don't think it's that far yet. n/t jtuck004 Dec 2014 #10
K&R We need for once to try to make democracy our greatest export instead of enslavement. nt raouldukelives Dec 2014 #14
This is a good list! calimary Dec 2014 #16
Mass executions of Bush Cabal and their Media Enablers. In the Rose Garden. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #17

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
2. America needs to end disaster capitalism. The system is rigged against the majority of
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:38 PM
Dec 2014

Americans. We need to also end the absurd wealth gap in the US, as well as nonsense like Citizens United. How can we say we have a democracy and then allow absurd amounts of $$$$$ to buy and control elected officials, as well as determining essentially who the candidates are and who will win by spewing propaganda with unlimited funding.

Neon Gods

(222 posts)
3. I'd start by shutting down Fox News
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:53 PM
Dec 2014

Fox News is the most toxic thing I've ever seen in my 69 years on Earth. Every time they lie, every Democratic Politician should publicly rebut it.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
15. We need a credible, accessible counterweight
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:10 PM
Dec 2014

There has always been wingnut media. 80 years ago, it was the Chicago Tribune and the Hearst papers. The problem now is that NBC is now owned by wingers, and CNN is increasingly presenting "tabloid" type (read: Nancy Grace) coverage of events.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
7. We can lead our leaders by example.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 10:37 PM
Dec 2014

Sounds backwards, but it's actually the only way it can possibly work.

Very few people try to show their leaders what kind of leaders they want.

The small act is the prototype for the large act.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
12. We clearly need to expect more
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:39 PM
Dec 2014

IMO, integrity and honesty have eroded in many aspects of society - not merely politics.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
13. Yes. And as always it begins with ourselves.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:42 PM
Dec 2014

So few of us do anything to demonstrate a higher standard than what we complain about.

bhikkhu

(10,718 posts)
9. We have plenty of local referendums, how about a national vote on torture?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 10:38 PM
Dec 2014

I don't know if there is even a mechanism for such. but it would be a good way to let elected leaders know directly what we expect of them. I'd like to see a national ban on torture on the ballot in 2016. Obama penned an executive order in 2009, but a public ballot would carry a bit more weight.

Of course, thinking about that sort of thing, there's a lot of other things that come to mind - police behavior, for one. National tracking of police shootings and independent federal oversight of investigation should be automatic.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
11. Didn't we have a national vote on torture when the 8th Amendment was ratified?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:37 PM
Dec 2014

That was my impression, anyway.

calimary

(81,321 posts)
16. This is a good list!
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 08:31 PM
Dec 2014

I think the bottom line, and I agree with it, is that we need to focus more inward, to all the work that's needed HERE, before we start going out and imposing "our way" on other countries. Especially when I agree that we also need, even more seriously, to do some self-examination and maybe revised view of what America is. And who we are. We can't presume to "fix" the rest of the world before we've put our own house in order, or at least started to clean it up.

Beautifully put! I really like the part about redefining American foreign policy in terms of being part of a greater collective.

"We need to craft a foreign policy that defines "American interest" as joining with nations that support those principles, and not allying with nations out of simple economic interest."

This too:

"5: Tax and economic policy that leads toward the banana republic economic model (5% or less of the people owning 90% or more of the land and business) is incompatible with representative democracy, and needs to stop."

It's not JUST about us. We DO have to back off the world-leadership-at-all-costs business. We have to share this planet and everything on it. It's not just ours alone to dominate and plunder and run roughshod through! We DO have to look long-term and plan and behave accordingly. We can't just go for the quick-and-dirty, cheap-ass fix, or the next quarterly earnings. We will have to fight to reassess the whole spectacularly selfish notion of "American Exceptionalism." WHAT THE HELL does THAT mean? We're separate and above it all and privileged and entitled to the top spot? Have we behaved as though we do? Particularly over the last decade or so? If we were a young kid, would this kind of behavior be taught, rewarded, praised, emulated, and imposed on others? Sorry - I look at a lot of things from the lens of being a mom. We're also going to have to reconsider the whole concept of capitalism and the free market. And it's gonna be an uphill battle because of who the enemy is: relentless ayn randers who have been salivating over some sort of formalized justification for selfishness - ever since they were told they had to pay taxes to support the poor and needy. They're selfish, spoiled babies who don't want to have to share. They don't want to have to help. They'll roar over you all day about how much more American and Christian and God-fearing they are. And their behavior utterly puts the lie to it all. But they're solid and well-funded in their assertions and they're not gonna back down.

It's the essence of the baser human nature that's manifesting here, seems to me. Us at our worst. And that's what we're up against. There never was an Abel without a Cain.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
17. Mass executions of Bush Cabal and their Media Enablers. In the Rose Garden.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 08:34 PM
Dec 2014

On Pay Per View.

Also open up their personal fortunes to civil lawsuits.

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