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Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 10:53 AM Dec 2014

Paul Krugman warns severe austerity measures are pushing countries to brink of fascism



THe problem with ideologues is that they do not learn from their mistakes, not even after they repeat them and things go wrong again. Paul Krugman returns to one of his favorite subjects in his Friday column: the mismanagement of Greece’s fiscal crisis, which erupted five years ago and has ongoing terrible side effects that are damaging the whole world. “But I’m not talking about the side effects you may have in mind — spillovers from Greece’s Great Depression-level slump, or financial contagion to other debtors,” Krugman writes. “No, the truly disastrous effect of the Greek crisis was the way it distorted economic policy, as supposedly serious people around the world rushed to learn the wrong lessons.”

Greece is again in crisis and Krugman is wondering if (hoping that )the world will learn the right lesson this time.

The first time, the conversation became all about cutting government spending and obsessing over deficits. That this worsened unemployment and blocked any chance for growth was simply denied by fiscal austerity hucksters like British prime minister David Cameron and U.S. budget hawk Paul Ryan. We’re all going to be Greece, they hysterically warned. Minus the sunshine. Krugman:

In reality, Britain and the United States, which borrow in their own currencies, were and are nothing like Greece. If you thought otherwise in 2010, by now year after year of incredibly low interest rates and low inflation should have convinced you. And the experience of Greece and other European countries that were forced into harsh austerity measures should also have convinced you that slashing spending in a depressed economy is a really bad idea if you can avoid it. This is true even in the supposed success stories — Ireland, for example, is finally growing again, but it still has almost 11 percent unemployment, and twice that rate among young people.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/paul-krugman-warns-severe-austerity-measures-are-pushing-countries-to-brink-of-fascism/
24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Paul Krugman warns severe austerity measures are pushing countries to brink of fascism (Original Post) Katashi_itto Dec 2014 OP
That fascism is what you were hoping for, only yesterday muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #1
Not at all. Just posting a simple observation by someone whose opinion is valuable. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #2
So you're still hoping for fascism in Europe, then? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #3
Reality. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #4
Do you want fascism in the US too? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #5
We are already there. The masks just haven't come completely off yet. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #6
But you're glad it's in the US too? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #7
Who says anything about glad? Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #8
You said you hope Putin succeeds in putting the far right in power in Europe muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #9
Guess all you want to do is point fingers and ignore whats happening Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #10
+1 woo me with science Dec 2014 #11
Putin? MFrohike Dec 2014 #12
Oh I agree, Merkel is a much better choice. I was simply stating Putin because of the article. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #13
You're saying you'd rather Merkel put the far right in charge in Europe? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #14
Seriously? MFrohike Dec 2014 #16
I didn't reply to you, I replied to Katashi_itto muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #19
Well f me MFrohike Dec 2014 #20
That's alright - we can all make mistakes in the 'tree' of replies (nt) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #21
He'd be stupid not to do it MFrohike Dec 2014 #18
Very good assessment MFrohhike Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #22
But it's Putin who is financing the European far right, and they support him muriel_volestrangler Dec 2014 #15
I imagine he is MFrohike Dec 2014 #17
Butbutbut... Dirty Socialist Dec 2014 #23
Lol! Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #24

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
7. But you're glad it's in the US too?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 11:45 AM
Dec 2014

You wanted it to happen in Europe; does that mean you're glad it's already happened in the US, so that the system will crash in the US too?

Is there anywhere you don't want fascism to triumph in?

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
8. Who says anything about glad?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:06 PM
Dec 2014

You want to spin it?

Here. Something for when you believe you'll ever be allowed to vote for a real candidate:

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
9. You said you hope Putin succeeds in putting the far right in power in Europe
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:17 PM
Dec 2014

In Russia reaches out to Europe's far-right parties, you said "Frankly watching our Tea party and Oligarchs in action I hope he pulls it off. People need to be woken up. We have forgotten our history and are coming rapidly to a very bloody future."

Those far right parties that you want Putin to help are the same fascist parties that Prof. Krugman is warning about - the French National Front, the Northern League in Italy, UKIP in Britain. So you're hoping for fascist victory in Europe. If you're not glad that you regard the current government in the USA as fascist, then why are you wishing for Europe to suffer the way you see the USA suffering?

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
12. Putin?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:42 PM
Dec 2014

Wtf? If 21st century fascism has a birthplace, it's in Berlin. It ain't Putin forcing austerity on weaker countries, replacing elected governments with corrupt technocrats, and running Europe into the ground. That is our friend and ally, Angela Merkel. If you want the handmaiden of European fascism, there is literally no better choice.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
13. Oh I agree, Merkel is a much better choice. I was simply stating Putin because of the article.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:45 PM
Dec 2014

Merkel is much better at it than Putin will ever be.

She mirrors our own 3rd Way dems. Very canny about how she pulls it off.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
14. You're saying you'd rather Merkel put the far right in charge in Europe?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:47 PM
Dec 2014

Why would that be any better? I still can't work out why you are supporting the European far right.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
16. Seriously?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:27 PM
Dec 2014

Either you can't read or you didn't read because that isn't remotely what I said and I'm pretty sure you damn well know it.

I said that Merkel is the greatest friend of the far right in Europe because they wouldn't get votes for free drugs in a crackhouse if she hadn't run the damn continent into the ground with her authoritarian austerity policies. If you think pointing out that blatantly obvious fact is "support for the far right," you're clueless.

If you're going to try to lie about what people say, don't let there be a record immediately available.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
19. I didn't reply to you, I replied to Katashi_itto
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:34 PM
Dec 2014

Katashi_itto is on record, in the thread I have linked to, from yesterday, saying they want Putin's financing of the European far right to succeed. So in #13, they are saying they think Merkel will be able to enable the fascists better. but Katashi_itto's hope for the fascists to gain power is still there.

I accept you're not supporting the far right. I never thought you were.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
20. Well f me
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:37 PM
Dec 2014

I am really sorry for being such an ass. I need to learn to read. It's funny I lecture you on it and then go do it myself. Again, sorry.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
18. He'd be stupid not to do it
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:32 PM
Dec 2014

The far right has gotten a huge boost because the nominal left in Europe has completely discredited itself by jumping on the austerity train. I'm sure some here will hyperventilate and get confused, but I view this as Ludendorff and Hindenburg putting Lenin on a train to Russia. I don't know if Vlad is a big fan of the far right, but I'm pretty sure he's a big fan of keeping the EU off-balance.

If the far right rises in Europe, with or without Vlad's help, it'll be on Merkel. It's her stupid country forcing its misguided neuroses on the rest of the continent.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
15. But it's Putin who is financing the European far right, and they support him
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:52 PM
Dec 2014

See http://www.riskandforecast.com/useruploads/files/pc_flash_report_russian_connection.pdf (the report referenced in the "Russia reaches out to Europe's far-right parties" article). Putin and the fascist parties that Krugman is warning about are allies.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
17. I imagine he is
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:28 PM
Dec 2014

He wouldn't get from here to the corner without Merkel doing all the groundwork to make the far right even remotely palatable to European voters, as evidenced by the elections earlier this year. Putin may well be taking advantage of it, but Merkel is the one who made it possible.

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