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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPaul Krugman warns severe austerity measures are pushing countries to brink of fascism
THe problem with ideologues is that they do not learn from their mistakes, not even after they repeat them and things go wrong again. Paul Krugman returns to one of his favorite subjects in his Friday column: the mismanagement of Greeces fiscal crisis, which erupted five years ago and has ongoing terrible side effects that are damaging the whole world. But Im not talking about the side effects you may have in mind spillovers from Greeces Great Depression-level slump, or financial contagion to other debtors, Krugman writes. No, the truly disastrous effect of the Greek crisis was the way it distorted economic policy, as supposedly serious people around the world rushed to learn the wrong lessons.
Greece is again in crisis and Krugman is wondering if (hoping that )the world will learn the right lesson this time.
The first time, the conversation became all about cutting government spending and obsessing over deficits. That this worsened unemployment and blocked any chance for growth was simply denied by fiscal austerity hucksters like British prime minister David Cameron and U.S. budget hawk Paul Ryan. Were all going to be Greece, they hysterically warned. Minus the sunshine. Krugman:
In reality, Britain and the United States, which borrow in their own currencies, were and are nothing like Greece. If you thought otherwise in 2010, by now year after year of incredibly low interest rates and low inflation should have convinced you. And the experience of Greece and other European countries that were forced into harsh austerity measures should also have convinced you that slashing spending in a depressed economy is a really bad idea if you can avoid it. This is true even in the supposed success stories Ireland, for example, is finally growing again, but it still has almost 11 percent unemployment, and twice that rate among young people.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/paul-krugman-warns-severe-austerity-measures-are-pushing-countries-to-brink-of-fascism/
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Does this mean your post yesterday was satire?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)What has happened to you?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)The system is beyond repair. Bring down the system.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)You wanted it to happen in Europe; does that mean you're glad it's already happened in the US, so that the system will crash in the US too?
Is there anywhere you don't want fascism to triumph in?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)You want to spin it?
Here. Something for when you believe you'll ever be allowed to vote for a real candidate:
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)In Russia reaches out to Europe's far-right parties, you said "Frankly watching our Tea party and Oligarchs in action I hope he pulls it off. People need to be woken up. We have forgotten our history and are coming rapidly to a very bloody future."
Those far right parties that you want Putin to help are the same fascist parties that Prof. Krugman is warning about - the French National Front, the Northern League in Italy, UKIP in Britain. So you're hoping for fascist victory in Europe. If you're not glad that you regard the current government in the USA as fascist, then why are you wishing for Europe to suffer the way you see the USA suffering?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)around you.
Ok Have a great day.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)MFrohike
(1,980 posts)Wtf? If 21st century fascism has a birthplace, it's in Berlin. It ain't Putin forcing austerity on weaker countries, replacing elected governments with corrupt technocrats, and running Europe into the ground. That is our friend and ally, Angela Merkel. If you want the handmaiden of European fascism, there is literally no better choice.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Merkel is much better at it than Putin will ever be.
She mirrors our own 3rd Way dems. Very canny about how she pulls it off.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Why would that be any better? I still can't work out why you are supporting the European far right.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)Either you can't read or you didn't read because that isn't remotely what I said and I'm pretty sure you damn well know it.
I said that Merkel is the greatest friend of the far right in Europe because they wouldn't get votes for free drugs in a crackhouse if she hadn't run the damn continent into the ground with her authoritarian austerity policies. If you think pointing out that blatantly obvious fact is "support for the far right," you're clueless.
If you're going to try to lie about what people say, don't let there be a record immediately available.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Katashi_itto is on record, in the thread I have linked to, from yesterday, saying they want Putin's financing of the European far right to succeed. So in #13, they are saying they think Merkel will be able to enable the fascists better. but Katashi_itto's hope for the fascists to gain power is still there.
I accept you're not supporting the far right. I never thought you were.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)I am really sorry for being such an ass. I need to learn to read. It's funny I lecture you on it and then go do it myself. Again, sorry.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)MFrohike
(1,980 posts)The far right has gotten a huge boost because the nominal left in Europe has completely discredited itself by jumping on the austerity train. I'm sure some here will hyperventilate and get confused, but I view this as Ludendorff and Hindenburg putting Lenin on a train to Russia. I don't know if Vlad is a big fan of the far right, but I'm pretty sure he's a big fan of keeping the EU off-balance.
If the far right rises in Europe, with or without Vlad's help, it'll be on Merkel. It's her stupid country forcing its misguided neuroses on the rest of the continent.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)See http://www.riskandforecast.com/useruploads/files/pc_flash_report_russian_connection.pdf (the report referenced in the "Russia reaches out to Europe's far-right parties" article). Putin and the fascist parties that Krugman is warning about are allies.
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)He wouldn't get from here to the corner without Merkel doing all the groundwork to make the far right even remotely palatable to European voters, as evidenced by the elections earlier this year. Putin may well be taking advantage of it, but Merkel is the one who made it possible.
Dirty Socialist
(3,252 posts)Krugman isn't ideologically pure! /sarc
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Nicely put