"Why doesn't she (he) just leave?"

"Why would they WANT to live where they are not wanted?"

All these questions come from the same place, as that you are speaking of. It's not you; it's them!

a good friend spent about 20 paragraphs showing me just how racist and stupid many in California ARE, not were...

Ever since then I kind of tried to lay off the south is bad meme

it was a major city. We moved. CA is spotted with homophobia depending on where one lives. It is not the total la la land many believe it to be. And this city was near the coast.

And where is it they want "us"?

Rural PA?

Rural CA?

Rural NY?

It's not like every state in the union isn't just like the South once you leave the urban areas.... and urban areas as we all know, just LOVE blacks and gays!

I live in NC, because the climate is perfect, and politics does not pound me every minute of the day and night. Of course the Teabagger legislature and Duke Power governor is trying to make it even worse than AL, but y'know.... that won't last forever.

But, y'know.... I'll move out of the USA if the Teabggers make it unbearable and even more of a 3rd world country than they already have.

There was no outrage over her position in the community and she and her GF (they are now married) went out in public like any typical couple.

All rural areas are NOT the same. The rural Red River Valley of the North, where I am from, is purple, not red.

And NC voted for Obama in '08.... and almost in '12... what we are being punished for right now.

But generally the South is rural....and rural areas less tolerant everywhere.... Red River Valley or no.....

The most open prejudice I've ever seen was in PA.


But all this anecdotal evidence is not very good evidence.

If you look at election data for North Dakota, for example, you will see that the eastern countries are a lot less conservative than the western countries. western ND patterns with Nebraska, Kansas, and Oklahoma; while Eastern North Dakota patterns with Minnesota and Iowa.

Oh, and not strictly rural, but Fargo had an openly Atheist mayor who was a big supporter of the civil rights of gay people from 1978 to 1994.

...anecdotal evidence is not good evidence..... mine included!

Things are always more complicated (and interconnected) than one can imagine. (a lesson from science)

I've been needing to get that off of my chest for a while.

you gotta have a spot in your heart for the South. I love both so I go whenever it fits my schedule. Nothing like listening to 40 Johnny Cash songs and driving from New Orleans to Memphis.

I'm from Memphis but fled when I was 21. Although no more relatives in TN these days, I do enjoy short visits, especially to New Orleans and northern Fla-la-la. You can't beat southern cookin'.

I had a religious moment in this place in Chattanooga last August:

http://hickorypitbarbque.com/index.html

And the whole gumbo thing down on the Gulf. I could live off that stuff.

Love me some BBQ. The link is now Bookmarked. Thx!

I still think that Sticky Fingers beats them in the "religious experience" category.


http://www.stickyfingers.com/default.aspx


I never go to, or through, Chattanooga without a stop at Sticky Fingers. You know it's a serious barbecue joint when they don't give you a napkin; they give you a towel.

The whole setting there is pretty awesome. Restaurants with stunning views usually don't have the best food though.

Quite beautiful up there. Lots of history, if you're interested in Civil War history, and if you're not, then there's just spectacular views from the lookout. No restaurant, though.

Personally, I like the view of Chattanooga mostly from ground-level. I love that whole downtown area, from the Aquarium to about MLK Boulevard. Just a great area to walk around, people-watch, enjoy the sights, sounds, and smells....

and is advising other cities about it now:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/as_syracuse_considers_ultra-high_speed_internet_we_called_the_mayor_of_gig_city.html

He could be someone to watch.

was when I was in college and one of my friends from St. Martinville got a care package of seafood gumbo from her mother. There were whole crab claws in it that you had to crack, enough shrimp to make you dizzy, and just enough file to make you think you had lost consciousness.

I LOVE South Louisiana cooking, the more western and Cajun, the finer it gets.

It's dinnertime up here in NY...that sounds glorious.

The world needs more gumbo.

and it was so good, I remember it a decade and a half later.

Seriously, it spoiled me for any gumbo I ever will probably eat (unless I get lucky - that was a HIGH benchmark that was set).

and has a huge crawfish boil every spring. Broke my heart last month when we heard he's been promoted and moving to Mobile.

Home of the best catfish on the PLANET.

Middendorf's was so awesome with their catfish that you didn't CARE about a bone, you just moved around it.

That is eternally in my memory when I think of Manchac!

I guess folks from down that way just have it in the blood.

Middendorf's thin-fish is my favorite catfish anywhere, and their fried oysters are almost as good as my mom's

Always stop there on the way home from New Orleans for one last taste of heaven.

I like the thick fish myself.

I'm drooling so hard I can barely type.

Did you know Drago's has opened a restaurant in Jackson? We always stop in Metairie on our way into New Orleans for their char-grilled oysters and now they're open 20 miles from where we live too.

Life is good.

but any time that I can get fried alligator bites it seems like home.

There's damn little I don't like and if you deep-fried a paper bag I'd probably consider it. It a once or twice a year treat so I don't feel any guilt. Some people eat to live, I live to eat.

If it has hopped, flown, swam, run, climbed or creeped, I've probably eaten it.

You're tempting me to go out and find some grilled oysters!

it's December about the best time to have some oysters on the half shell. Delicious, delicious, and I won't reiterate delicious, okay I just did.

But it's ALWAYS in season for Middendorf's catfish. It's like saints, sinners and Jesus all curled up in a deep fryer, looked upon it, and it was GOOD.

The store was owned by a Cajun shrimper from New Orleans who taught gourmet cooking classes there in the evening. The guy had a lovely Cajun surname: Cheramie.

My favorite recipe from the classes was Barbecued Shrimp, a dish that isn't actually barbecued, it's sauteed in a butter sauce with lots of herbs and spices. iirc, that was a Paul Prudhomme dish. The New Orleans Bouillabaise after the late NOLA food critic and author Richard Collin and the Bananas Foster are also way up there.

My graduation sheepskin was a certificate making me an "Honorary Cajun."

After owning the market for a few years, I think Mr. Cheramie returned to the family seafood business in New Orleans.

can turn shrimp into an "I think I died and went to heaven" dish like a shrimpboat captain (or more aptly, not encouraging roles, but their wife).

Ambrosia, I tell you!

Having been married to a Cajun for a decade, I've long-since learned that if it doesn't hurt at least a little bit to eat, then it's not really good eating.

She made jambalaya that would absolutely light you up, but there was nothing better on a cold winters' night up here in Nashville, relatively the Frozen Nawth compared to southwest of Mobile.

Despite being the landlubber that I am, born and raised 500 miles from the closest salt water, I definitely learned to love things like soft-shell crab. There was a little place in the ex's hometown that had the absolute best West Indies salad on the entire planet: crab meat and onions and chives steeped in either vinegar or battery acid, I'm still not sure which, but DAMN that was some seriously good stuff.

at vinegar and battery acid with crab and onions steeped in it.

When can I come over for dinner at your house, if it is being impolite to invite myself to it?

But you know where I actually got run out of town at gunpoint back in my long-haired days? Boston and Bar Harbor. Neither of which are anywhere NEAR the South.

I took a lesson in stereotyping from those experiences.

Fla, VA, OR and several other states, the south may have a longer and more open and brutal history of racism, homophobia and misogyny; but it is everywhere. My home town area has gotten redder and meaner, upstate NY.

Live where you are happy and be safe!

that my black friend and I might find a more congenial environment in which to drink....a few miles down the road.

This was in Watertown, NY, June 1976...friend and I both active-duty military. (Nobody thanked us for our service, either.)

I was happy to recommend this post

and in disbelief at the fellow DUers who denigrate a region. In this century.

Look at the number of black elected officials in the south compared to the north, Midwest, or west.

Some Some ignorant folks need to do a fact check.

Just not enough . . . .

I'm not ignorant. Many of the friends I have here aren't ignorant, either.

You are the example of exactly what I was attempting to discuss - assuming we are all dumbasses.

It's astounding at times.

Thus why I made the thread instead of going off on some random person that posted something that was shitty. It gets majorly thick in here.

There are lota of reasonable peoplw in the South, like OP. But they arent the majority. When the South turns blue Ill change my tune!

Any generalization of a group based on a characteristic like skin color, religion, place of origin (in this case, the south), is all bigotry - just various different forms of bigotry. Some forms are more acceptable in your mind, like denigrating an entire region based on some of the population there. I hope you will reconsider in the future.

Just as you wouldn't say "white men suck because a majority vote republican", don't say "southerners suck because a majority vote republican".

The problem is that most don't vote.

Of course, it's not only the South. Michigan, Wisconsin, New Jersey and others aren't exactly helping make your point.

You can always change your geography.

You can't change your race, sex, orientation, etc...

Mississippi is pretty far on the bottom of the list?

I grew up in Missery and it is a pretty crappy state as well. Actually since the 90's when I left it has actually managed to get worse LOL. (Of course, I left as soon as possible)

I guess if you see it as shitty, that's the end, you move on.

Some people see it as opportunity.

Which person are you? That is what defines us - it doesn't label us by any means, but it does define our character.

I thought you meant quality of life. Where exactly have you lived in MS that you didn't have the opportunity for any of the things that you mentioned?

Except for the northwest... farthest northwest I have been is Big Bear CA-

Sorry, nothing good to say about Mississippi...Arkansas is the same way. I still remember flying into Little Rock (a dump) and when the plane was landing the graffiti was on the INSIDE of the walls around the runway/airport

The basic rule is that the states on the borders are the best. Either coast or the border with Mexico or Canada are the states that tend to be the better places to live (Florida is an exception to that rule but it will be under water in 50 years so )



I'll tell you one of the nicest, cleanest and fairly thriving cities I have ever been to was Lansing Michigan. It's so clean the snow on the roads actually stays white LOL.

whatever floats your boat. If it means snow that stays white, perhaps that is where you are meant to be.

It melts by noon when we do get any

Just not enough.

What is so "shitty" about that response?

If there were a majority of reasonable people, the Rethugs wouldn't be in control down there.

bigotry or see racism.

There aren't enough people there like the OP.

That you "feel sorry" for anyone who "has to live there." As if the south is some unmitigated hell on earth, every minute of every day. It sounded insulting and condescending to me. I don't think you meant it that way; but the assumption that the south has nothing positive as a region, a people, or a culture is a common one here at DU.

compliment when I am on the receiving end of one.

I know exactly what sentiment was conveyed. I'm puzzled why no one over grade school didn't catch it.

Last edited Tue Dec 16, 2014, 12:55 AM - Edit history (1)

heavily Rethug area, whether it was in the South, in some wealthy metro suburb, or in a rural area almost anywhere. And I feel sorry for any liberal who does. But your OP was about the South.

Your OP to me seemed to validate that people in the south can be cruel & ignorant & bigoted & you've suffered because of it.

Maybe read the offending post without preconceived notions and you might just see someone agreeing with your post & sympathizing.

to be a positive poster, so when I make a post about something that I see is negative, I speak up.

You may think I'm nit-picking, and that is absolutely your right, but it is absolutely mine to call outright prejudice what it is.

the police, and all the other institutions are controlled by right-wingers, it can be a very frustrating situation. It is for my mother, who lives in Texas and after twenty years still feels like a crazy liberal.

I live in the South by choice, not 'because I have to'. Are there a lot of Tea Baggers around? Yeah. But while we have 2 Rethug Senators, we also have a Democrat Governor, Lt. Governor, Sec of State, and Attorney General. Do we have homophobes and racists around? Sure. But when we were getting ready to move from Ca to here, I called to get the Electricity turned on at the new place. The nice lady on the phone arranged it for me and then asked, "Do you have the numbers for the other utilities you will need?" and proceeded to give me the phone numbers for everything we would need. Try that in Ca! When I go to my local grocery (which is a big box store - but not Wal-Mart) no one gets upset if the person in line ahead of you spends a minute or two chatting with the checker instead of getting out of the way as soon as possible.

Several years ago my daughter and son-in-law were involved in a traffic accident. They called us to wait for the tow truck, because they wanted to take our (then) 4 year-old granddaughter to the hospital to be checked out. The left our 6 year-old grandson with us. Zack was pretty shook up, emotionally if not physically. The tow truck arrived and a character looking like someone straight out of Deliverance climbed out of the cab. Greasy hands, dirty trucker cap, missing teeth, several days stubble, etc. He sized up the situation in about two seconds and called Zack over and asked if Zack would help him get the car up on the tow. He hooked up the car and then showed Zack which levers to push and pull to winch the car up on the tow-truck bed. By the time he was done, Zack had pretty much forgotten about the accident and couldn't talk about anything other than 'helping' and getting to work the levers.

Yeah, the South has issues. But it also has one hell of a lot to recommend it as well. And you know what? Most of those 'racists' are racist in the abstract, not at the person-to-person level. They may talk about 'that uppity boy in the White House' but if they happen to have a black co-worker, they treat them just like any other co-worker. Same for LGBT. You pin them down, and the basic response is, 'Well what they do ain't natural, but hell, if it makes 'em happy ain't no skin off my nose."

So don't tell me you are sorry I 'have to live here'. I love it here and if I have to put up with the fact that I doubt a Democrat Presidential candidate will win my state in my lifetime, well there isn't any place that meets 100% of the items on my wish list. Here just comes closer than a lot of places.

Bigotry in the abstract, with true feelings of commonality and even friendship with other races when engaged with actual people. It's a form of cognitive dissonance I guess. But very real.

The southern "friendliness" is a double-edged sword, to be sure. They might be nice to your face, but the back-stabbing is not far behind. If someone says racists things about Obama, they ARE a racist. Full stop.

Your experience is definitely not mine.

that cares what other people gossip about, like to gossip yourself, and find yourself being gossiped about because you had nothing nice to say about anybody? You'll find plenty of those in the South.

You'll find plenty of those EVERYWHERE.

I don't gossip. I went to the beauty shop this morning (I know - it's quaint, that's what we call the hair salon here) and the most interesting thing we discussed was ... wait for it ... plants. We discussed it was horrible that so many people in Pakistan were murdered by zealots, and, of all things, anti-static Pledge that keeps mirrors clean without having hairspray stick to it.

You get what you bring into your environment - that has been my experience.

As a non gender conforming atheist, I couldn't get out of the south fast enough. You couldn't pay me to live there. I lived in Texas and in Florida and it was pure hell. And the people I knew are racist on a face to face level.

I had one black co-worker - a guy in his 50's - tell me he knew I wasn't from there because of the way I treated him.

People fucking felt they had the right to try to "save" me.

It sure wasn't my experience either. When people say all these wonderful things about the south, I'm all - where? Not where I was.

I also spend a lot of time at a friend's house in Clarksville TV - it's just as bad as the other two places I lived in in the south.

And yes, there are racists where I live. In fact most of the white men I work with are racists - the women might be too, but they are not loud about it. But at least our government isn't trying to kill us poor people up here in the northeast. And at least people don't vote for evil assholes (for the most part.)