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lame54

(35,290 posts)
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 03:55 PM Dec 2014

Why Do We Torture

From 1984

"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness; only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?"...

..."How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?"

Winston thought. "By making him suffer," he said.

"Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain. The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love and justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy- everything. Already we are breaking down the habits of thought which have survived from before the Revolution. We have cut the links between child and parent, and between man and man, and between man and woman. No one dares trust a wife or a child or a friend any longer. But in the future there will be no wives and no friends. Children will be taken from their mothers at birth, as one takes eggs from a hen. The sex instinct will be eradicated. Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now. There will be no loyalty, except loyalty toward the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science. When we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science. There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always-do not forget this, Winston-always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face-forever."

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Why Do We Torture (Original Post) lame54 Dec 2014 OP
Orwell nail it. Not for info, not to safeguard the USA, but to intimidate others we torture on point Dec 2014 #1
How else do you build a private police force that will do absolutely anything you ask of it? Orsino Dec 2014 #5
K&R nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #2
The question I ask myself is: Newest Reality Dec 2014 #3
. lame54 Dec 2014 #4

on point

(2,506 posts)
1. Orwell nail it. Not for info, not to safeguard the USA, but to intimidate others we torture
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 04:04 PM
Dec 2014

And that is why faux news supports torture too, they want to scare others into doing what they want, or want to see done.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
5. How else do you build a private police force that will do absolutely anything you ask of it?
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 10:17 PM
Dec 2014

One purpose of torture is simply to keep one's torturers well-trained.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
3. The question I ask myself is:
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 04:15 PM
Dec 2014

Not just who tortured whom and when, but it seems clear to wonder if and when I will be tortured.

You don't have to actually have done anything at all, you merely need to be designated as an enemy combatant. Once that happens, you lose all your rights and are swept off to who knows where. Since habeus corpus does not apply in that case, and you are not allowed to know the charges, nor can you contact anyone, including your layer, you are then completely vulnerable to whatever your captors decide to do to you.

That may seem extreme for now, but the mechanisms are already in place. So, since torture is being "normalized", it might be a good idea for us to take it personally and consider that, at any point, and if it seems prudent, we have no protection from incurring and enduring the same fate, This applies to our friends, family and children.

Until something is done about the use of torture and false imprisonment without recourse or redress, by way of rescinding the provisions that have allowed for it, none of us can actually and realistically feel secure and safe. The door is wide open for abuse when any President at any time can sweep us off our feet and into hell, simply by decree.

What does knowledge of this potential do to our ideas of dissent and free speech? It seems to hang over our heads like a very dark cloud and a warning that we might best take head of before it becomes impossible to even react openly and honestly to it.

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