when he found out how fucking stupid his handiwork has become.

To be fair, let's ask the fundamentalist muslim zealots how they feel about torture, rape, beheading, etc.

mean we get to decide the same thing. This whole thing reminds me of the Bugs Bunny cartoon The Marriage of Figaro where Elmer Fudd gets a gun, then Bugs gets a bigger gun, then Elmer get a bigger gun, then Bugs gets a bigger gun, on and on and on. When does it end? If we think torture is okay how long until we decide that using nuclear weapons again is okay? We've already done it once. We, the supposed leader of the world are the only ones to actually use nuclear bombs on civilians none the less.

But....
I myself am wondering why anyone wants to be religious anymore. I was raised secular but somewhat spiritual, so I suppose I will never understand these fucked-up religious cultures. I fully understand why Christians have been leaving in droves, but why do Muslims become more and more dedicated to their beliefs?

suffering from PTSD because of past childhood abuse. I love my husband dearly but when he has episodes of extreme mood swings and uncontrollable emotions, it is very hard on me and everyone around him. He is not always like this. Most of the time he is loving and calm and funny. But I use my time away from him to meditate so that I can relax and feel a sense of calm and peace that his PTSD sometimes robs me of. This helps me stay centered, sane and recharge so that I can be strong for him and for the rest of the family. There are some religious people who are power hungry, and that is sad. It is sad that something that is supposed to bring about love, compassion, tolerance, and forgiveness is used to further people's greed and hunger for power. But there are religious people in the world who are not power hungry. They simply want to get up, go to work, come home and have a nice, quite evening with their families. That's all most human beings want out of life.

I myself am struggling financially but am in good health, in general. A good friend of mine was nearly devastated physically and financially of cancer. Neither of us are religious, and neither of us ever will be. Our familial religious backgrounds are different, but neither one of us has become religious.

Becoming religious is a way to seek approval of other humans.

inner peace than anything else.

They all abhor the idea.

I know several muslim women who dress western and who show their hair. This is not abot them.

"Every dog has his/her day" is and old saying. Today is my day, I suppose.

I'm just wary of "but what about the Muslims?" arguments.

I think it's safe to say that there are many people who twist the various religious philosophies to fit their own twisted moralities.

Or perhaps it is just wishful thinking that christian violent nutcases are equal in number and severity to muslim violent nutcases?

Finding egregious examples of fundamentalist foolishness and then sneering at it is pointless and counterproductive. For similar reasons I also tire of mocking Republicans in the same way.

...on a scale of how religious they are... are more or less ignorant dumbasses.

You just want to pick a fight with people. Have a good day. You are going on my ignore list.

What's the moral imperative of fighting a monster if we're one too?

It has multiple uses, and I hope you also choose to reply that way when the tables are turned.

One has nothing to do with the other

Evangelical Christians and Muslim Extemists. Israeli Extremists, too.

All have something in common: they are all mentally ill. They have a psychosis based on some shit culture they ate up by the spoonful.

Being better than torture is something I wholeheartedly agree with. Even if it were done to Americans (or anyone for that matter) does not excuse it, ever! The Chinese have and continue to torture, and they also value lives cheaply, if not more so than we do.

I as a person can choose to be better, to do the right thing, to be kind to others, not be too judgmental, etc. I as an individual can take in a bit of self-gloating glee in knowing that I would never willfully harm anyone, not even a frog.

Disclaimer: I am not completely sober, at this point in time

the single greatest threat to the long term survival of the human species. Stupidity has its price and it is a steep one indeed.

especially at this time of year


Peace On Earth

if only.....


kp

then one must believe in torture.

Last edited Wed Dec 17, 2014, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)

That dude can't get enough of genocide, smiting, mass drowning, plague-sending -- you name it.

But the rest of humanity, well ... *blub blub blub*

But He is a Loving God.

You become desensitized.

This is a religion that glorifies suffering and torture -- it's so Christlike. Many of the early Christian martyrs not only sought, but in some cases demanded, to be tortured. They wanted to emulate Jesus.

I look at the cross everyday and am very much against torture.

sins and are happy about it, of course you do. Poe?

Maybe you should ask before you make assumptions.

Man (right wing republicans) invented their god to fit their views. It was a complicated build for them, because it was tricky to get god to fit with their ideology and hate all the people and groups that they hate.

This should answer that age old question once and for all. They don't want the god that was described in the New Testament. They want the one who hates gays, loves gun, hates Mexicans, loves war, loves fetuses, hates poor children....

As David Bowie sings in "I'm Afraid of Americans"...."God is an American"

and David Bowie
blew my mind,

peace on earth,
kp

over pointing out the fact that the "Christain Left" is a minority, and the activist Christian Left is a minority within that minority. Apparently I don't associate with the "right people" so my views are invalid. Also, my rationality was called into question because I came to this conclusion.

I would never wish torture on a person (s) even when it would seem logical at the time.

is a guy who got tortured to death.

should report to Iraq ASAP.

to provoke lip service to orthodoxy among the unfaithful. That's what Torquemada was up to, plus he enjoyed inflicting pain as all torturers do.

Besides, there's that acceptance of torture that Jesus underwent so that when they stole that gum from a convenience store at the age of six, they'd be forgiven.

And plenty of sheep will believe in the poll and rationalize there being on the "leading team "

And why do you call people 'sheep' for thinking it expresses something like reality? What is your view of reality on the support for torture among religious groups, and what evidence do you have for it?

Pew didn't do a religious breakdown, but did others. They found a 51-29-20 breakdown of people saying CIA interrogation methods were justified (agree/disagree/don't know).

http://www.people-press.org/2014/12/15/about-half-see-cia-interrogation-methods-as-justified/

"Justified"are so ambiguous as to be meaningless. The poll also showed 23% of the fols polled were following the CIA report closely.

Ignorance begets ignorance which was the purpose of this push poll...to keep the masses ignorant that this was toeture...did not even dare use the word they should have.

So it is very hard for me to comprehend how others would be for it.

Crusades, Inquisition, Jews, KKK, Aryan Nation, and on and on.
Onward Christian Soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus, going on before...

THis is an argument I was given by RW Christian a few days ago. I think I replied that Islam uses the Old Testament (which inspired the Koran) with scripture which commands to kill those who wont convert.

... that if you believe in a Supreme Being for whom it is claimed that He will send sinners to burn eternally in a lake of fire unless they repent, you will not have a big problem with torture.

which is but one of many reasons why they shouldn't be called xtians

can tell you all about the Torah and Hell and the Wrath of God and whatnot.

"torture is ok, Obama is a Muslim, W prays just like we do." It's not all their fault, that's all they hear in the Texas bubble and they're true believers, 100% right with Jesus and going to heaven.

who just happens to be in your own image, you tend to believe that your actions are sanctioned regardless of what your religion tells you. In laymans terms, the rules of your religion only apply to the non-believers(as a means to keep them in line).

consider torture to be an unspeakably wicked act under any circumstances.

It's not the religion itself, it's the mindset. That mindset is being CREATED by the likes of the churches and fox in order to create more conservatives minions. It's something liberals should understand because it is changing the very fabric of our country.

If you are interested, please check out The Authoritarians as it very clearly explains it

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf