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Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:00 PM Dec 2014

"All children should be taken by their schools to visit a factory pig or chicken farm..."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/16/perpetual-denial-food-meat-production-environmental-devastation?CMP=fb_gu



If you must eat meat, save it for Christmas
George Monbiot

What can you say about a society whose food production must be hidden from public view? In which the factory farms and slaughterhouses supplying much of our diet must be guarded like arsenals to prevent us from seeing what happens there? We conspire in this concealment: we don’t want to know. We deceive ourselves so effectively that much of the time we barely notice that we are eating animals, even during once-rare feasts, such as Christmas, which are now scarcely distinguished from the rest of the year.

It begins with the stories we tell. Many of the books written for very young children are about farms, but these jolly places in which animals wander freely, as if they belong to the farmer’s family, bear no relationship to the realities of production. The petting farms to which we take our children are reifications of these fantasies. This is just one instance of the sanitisation of childhood, in which none of the three little pigs gets eaten and Jack makes peace with the giant, but in this case it has consequences.

Labelling reinforces the deception. As Philip Lymbery points out in his book Farmageddon, while the production method must be marked on egg boxes in the EU, there are no such conditions on meat and milk. Meaningless labels such as “natural” and “farm fresh”, and worthless symbols such as the little red tractor, distract us from the realities of broiler units and intensive piggeries. Perhaps the most blatant diversion is “corn-fed”. Most chickens and turkeys eat corn, and it’s a bad thing, not a good one.

The growth rate of broiler chickens has quadrupled in 50 years: they are now killed at seven weeks. By then they are often crippled by their own weight. Animals selected for obesity cause obesity. Bred to bulge, scarcely able to move, overfed, factory-farmed chickens now contain almost three times as much fat as chickens did in 1970, and just two thirds of the protein. Stalled pigs and feedlot cattle have undergone a similar transformation. Meat production? No, this is fat production.

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"All children should be taken by their schools to visit a factory pig or chicken farm..." (Original Post) Karmadillo Dec 2014 OP
Trips to their water treatment plant and their sewage system should also happen HereSince1628 Dec 2014 #1
Pretty much everyone who has lived on a farm has Major Nikon Dec 2014 #7
yes, that's somewhat true, but peeing in the meadow HereSince1628 Dec 2014 #9
"pumping out the septic tank is really unlike the steps of tertiary treatment" Major Nikon Dec 2014 #12
It's the scale that demands -better- treatment HereSince1628 Dec 2014 #14
I'm not convinced the treatment is better, it's just better for the scale Major Nikon Dec 2014 #18
I think that is what I said. HereSince1628 Dec 2014 #19
Didn't sound that way Major Nikon Dec 2014 #21
I went on a tour of my local sewage treatment plant and it changed the way I think about water, and kimbutgar Dec 2014 #15
I raised pigs as a kid...sometimes pork from the discount market smells just like the pigsty. HereSince1628 Dec 2014 #16
I did this in high school tabbycat31 Dec 2014 #22
It's not just the production of meat, it's the production of everything under capitalism. Brickbat Dec 2014 #2
so true Brickbat olddots Dec 2014 #3
I can go to the store and buy a couple of tomatoes upaloopa Dec 2014 #4
I remember things like that helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #6
Amen. This is a great idea. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #8
Wait--I'm no defender of advanced capitalism, but ... frazzled Dec 2014 #25
Take them to Parliament / Congress too. An even more disgusting sight to behold CBGLuthier Dec 2014 #5
When I was teaching 8th grade science, as part of our unit on genetics, I would world wide wally Dec 2014 #10
I think most of the kids I went to High School with did. Bosso 63 Dec 2014 #11
The majority of my students LWolf Dec 2014 #13
I have been to one AnalystInParadise Dec 2014 #17
And this is the reason why we raise our own livestock, GGJohn Dec 2014 #20
+1 Go Vols Dec 2014 #23
My fifth grade class went to a slaughterhouse in 1956. MineralMan Dec 2014 #24
And take them to a corporate vegetable farm nichomachus Dec 2014 #26
take them for a trip thru youtube easychoice Dec 2014 #27
Agreed. All people should know where their food comes from NickB79 Dec 2014 #28
It is a good thing to hunt and grow your own food..however KinMd Dec 2014 #29

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
1. Trips to their water treatment plant and their sewage system should also happen
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:07 PM
Dec 2014

No matter how a person might feel about eating animals, everyone needs to understand their relationships to the ecosystems they drawn on and interact with.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
7. Pretty much everyone who has lived on a farm has
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:22 PM
Dec 2014

Along with all the rest of the processing steps of livestock.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
9. yes, that's somewhat true, but peeing in the meadow
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:35 PM
Dec 2014

isn't quite the same as 1,000,000 households morning toilet flushes for a family of four.

Nor is mucking out stanchions in a dairy barn.

And many members of farm families balk at the notion of non-point pollution.

Population is a multiplier on all activities required for daily living. Generally speaking the scale required to meet those things are met using mechanization and pumping out the septic tank is really unlike the steps of tertiary treatment.

Similarly bacteria free water with safe levels of radium and other minerals for a city is often quite unlike moving water from a home well through a water softener and into Kool-Aid.

The infrastructure society depends upon must be understood and appreciated or people will be unwilling to pay the taxes, water bills and sewage assessments. They won't understand why storm and sewage can't drain in the same pipes. They won't understand that treated water going into a lake or river is going to be drunk by other people. And so they won't want to spend more than minimum for treatment.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
12. "pumping out the septic tank is really unlike the steps of tertiary treatment"
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 08:12 PM
Dec 2014

Perhaps, but the initial steps of many treatment plants are not at all unlike septic tanks.

The scale of these things are different, but the objectives are the same. Clean water goes in and unclean water goes out. Anyone who owns and manages their own supply and wastewater system for very long undoubtedly understands more about what is required than your average Joe-sixpack.

I'm not sure why we would want to spend more than the minimum for treatment. The EPA already enforces the federal standards on municipal supply and wastewater, which relative to pretty much everywhere else on the planet are quite high.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
14. It's the scale that demands -better- treatment
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 08:27 PM
Dec 2014

Settling and letting untreated water be discharged isn't usually a problem for home septic systems so long as they are situated suitably to prevent contamination of a home well.

When you have sewage from millions of households emptying into a body of water the nutrients in the waste cause population explosions of organisms which die and whose decomposition creates BOD, added to COD caused by chemicals in primary waste water the combination create dead zones in rivers, lakes and even embayments of the ocean






Preventing the overload of nutrients and chemicals requires advanced treatment. That treatment costs money for the creation maintenance and operation of the infrastructure. People need to understand the processes so that as citizens they can make educated decisions about voting on things like taxes and municipal bond issues that lend money to make such facilities possible

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
18. I'm not convinced the treatment is better, it's just better for the scale
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 08:42 PM
Dec 2014

A properly constructed, maintained, and operated home sewage system is highly unlikely to produce excessive BOD and will in almost all instances reduce BOD to negligible levels. COD is more of a function of industry.

Where I think people should be better educated is to what extent they are subsidizing water and wastewater management of commerce and industry.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
21. Didn't sound that way
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 08:57 PM
Dec 2014

But if that's what you meant I'm not going to question the clarification.

I think we agree that people should be better educated on where their water comes from and goes. I just think those who live on a farm probably already have a much better handle on the problem because they are effectively doing those things for themselves rather than by proxy. For people on a municipal supply, all they really care about is hot is on the left, cold is on the right, and shit is rolling downhill.

kimbutgar

(21,155 posts)
15. I went on a tour of my local sewage treatment plant and it changed the way I think about water, and
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 08:29 PM
Dec 2014

I put down my drain.

After seeing a lamb being slaughtered I have a hard time eating lamb to this day. Chickens not so much because they can be annoying at times and difficult to keep as a pet.

tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
22. I did this in high school
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 09:09 PM
Dec 2014

It was part of our chemistry class. I now use a lot of 'gray' water on things like watering plants.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
4. I can go to the store and buy a couple of tomatoes
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:16 PM
Dec 2014

and put them on the window sill and come back in a couple of weeks and they haven't even begun to rot.
They also don't taste like tomatoes nor do they smell like tomatoes.
I use to work in produce and we used all our senses to judge vegetables. We felt them looked at their color smelled them lasted them and at times shook them to listen to a rattle of seeds inside. You can't do that now unless it is at a farmer's market.

 

helpmetohelpyou

(589 posts)
6. I remember things like that
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:20 PM
Dec 2014

I remember going to my grandmothers house when she just picked some fresh tomatoes
from her garden, what a smell they had

Pick up a tomatoes in a grocery store and they smell... really like nothing
Like something artificial

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
25. Wait--I'm no defender of advanced capitalism, but ...
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 09:38 PM
Dec 2014

Was the food under Communist regimes better? I think not! That was industrial farming on a huge scale.

I think technology (and the attendant scale it allows) has more to do with bad farming than any particular economic system.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
5. Take them to Parliament / Congress too. An even more disgusting sight to behold
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:18 PM
Dec 2014

Hence the popular saying about laws and sausages.

world wide wally

(21,743 posts)
10. When I was teaching 8th grade science, as part of our unit on genetics, I would
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:41 PM
Dec 2014

show them the movie " Food Inc"
It was really an eye opener for something they had quite honestly never thought about before.

Bosso 63

(992 posts)
11. I think most of the kids I went to High School with did.
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 07:47 PM
Dec 2014

Well, the school didn't actually take them to the chicken plant,
but it was the first stop after they left school.

In SW Missouri it was an "opportunity" .

Jesus, Chicken and Meth,
but not necessarily in that order.

 

AnalystInParadise

(1,832 posts)
17. I have been to one
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 08:36 PM
Dec 2014

all it did was make me swear off of grains in favor of tasty meat.

I like these kinds of threads, any crazy thing can be said and taken as truth.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
20. And this is the reason why we raise our own livestock,
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 08:50 PM
Dec 2014

cattle, chickens and hogs, and we also hunt our own meat, grow our own veggies and fruits.

I visited a factory farm one time and that day, I swore I would never buy meat in a store again.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
26. And take them to a corporate vegetable farm
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 09:52 PM
Dec 2014

To show them how farm workers are treated -- and the sanitary conditions there.

easychoice

(1,043 posts)
27. take them for a trip thru youtube
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 10:03 PM
Dec 2014

just have a bucket handy for them to lose their lunch in.
Some of these places you can smell 5 miles away.Check out the amish puppy mills too.

NickB79

(19,246 posts)
28. Agreed. All people should know where their food comes from
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 10:10 PM
Dec 2014

It amazes me to no end that there are people, even here on DU, that have a problem with people hunting their own meat, yet don't bat an eye when it comes time to buy some beef or chicken at the grocery store.

Just recently, I got chewed out by someone here because I stated that I hunt for rabbits and squirrels. Apparently, killing the little fuzzies in the woods was a far worse sin than letting someone slowly torture a cow or pig to death on a factory farm.

FWIW, we have a 5-chicken flock, a fruit orchard, and a 1,000-sq. ft vegetable garden. I'm amazed by how mature and intelligent my daughter is when it comes to caring for it; she practically raised the chicks herself this spring, and she's only 4 yr old: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152224967771847&set=pb.574696846.-2207520000.1418782166.&type=3&theater

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