Now I can see how he got reelected.
This is getting bad when the northern states are using Mississippi as their model.

The health care provider could report the matter to law enforcement in cases of serious and imminent threat to other.
Was there an imminent threat here? I doubt it.

but the hospital may be in line for a lawsuit.

Sadly, in this day of electronic online medical records, there is little real confidentiality any more.

Some docs, like mine, are very uncomfortable about the idea of online records and only enter the barest of details, thankfully.

years ago. tragic.
if that spreads to medical records in general, patients will suffer. sooner or later, someone will end up dead because we have to hide from the state.

i never assumed my medical records were private. i shake my head every time i have to sign that hippa statement. i know it is bullshit.

woman is the nigger to the world.

whether child, spousal or elder abuse. With the current culture of religious beliefs being put before human rights, I can see where "abuse of a fetus" would out way the right to privacy of a breathing adult and their Health Care provider. These fundie lawmakers would use this to further their war on women.

there is no such law requiring healthcare professionals to report an individuals suspected or admitted substance abuse

What I was trying to say is if there is a culture of "life begins at conception" at the hospital, the hospital works may have felt empowered to report this. There are many fundies working in healthcare that think it is their responsibility to impose their religious crap on patients. Whether it is using mandatory reporting laws in a situation like this, or using their petty power to deny same sex couples visiting tights.


There are Mandatory Reporting Laws involving abuse. The link goes to Child Welfare information site. There are people that will find ways to use these laws to further their religious beliefs.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/manda.cfm


I IN NO WAY SUPPORT WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS WOMAN OR CONDONE IT!

This "stuff" makes me crazy and I think I am too eager to jump on any perceived disagreement. Again, I am sorry!

In truth, it is really nice reading through this thread

Thanks for the apology!

That is the only question for me.

this is not an argument about whether drug/alcohol use is "OK' for a pregnant woman ... it is a question concerning the rights of women. (*obviously NO ONE advocates for the use of alcohol / drugs during pregnancy from a health perspective)

Are pregnant women a subclass of citizen with less rights than other adult citizens? In order to believe that this is OK one must believe that pregnant women are not allowed the same rights as other adult citizens.

A corpse has more body autonomy than a living woman does, particularly if that woman is pregnant, doesn't wish to be pregnant, or thinks about having a healthy sex life.

Does the fetus have absolutely no rights until it draws breath? If a woman decides to bear a fetus to term, what are her duties and obligations to that fetus?For example, can we require pregnant women to get a rubella vaccine? As an extreme off-the-wall example, if the woman has all rights, what's to prevent a performance artist from taking thalidomide? Too extreme? What about the real babies born every day with fetal alcohol syndrome? I know an entire family in which it is clear that the mother was drinking heavily during each pregnancy. It's not pretty.

As it happens, a baby born to a woman using illegal drugs probably has a better shot at life than one born to a woman using legal alcohol. But it is far more acceptable to society to go after poor women using drugs than middle class and upper class women who binge drink behind closed door.

Approaching this through the criminal justice system is the wrong way to go. I really do not have any ideas on how to approach this.

"As it happens, a baby born to a woman using illegal drugs probably has a better shot at life than one born to a woman using legal alcohol."

This is the flaw in the law - there is no penalty for use of legal drugs nor booze, even though stats prove that booze use is more damaging. Certainly there is no comparison between pot use and booze use in pregnancy. This will get the law struck down, and the state sued.

But that is okay with these people. And women who may not have the resources to deal with a withdrawing baby at home (or even know that is what is happening) end up not able to handle the situation.

Then they can no longer imprison pregnant women, because this denies the fetus its right to due process.

At the more farcical end of the spectrum, it would expllicitly allow pregnant women to drive in the carpool lane.


In short, I agree with you; it's quite complex.

How could abortions/ the right to choose be legal if a fetus is a separate individual with rights ....?

It's another clear attempt at an end-run around Roe v. Wade.

this is a serious public health issue ... it is not one that the criminal justice system should have any part!

if we require a woman to protect the fetus from substances that could cause mental disabilities (alcohol), can we therefore require women to get the fetus tested for Down syndrome?

In my mind it simply comes down to right of a woman to have autonomy. Autonomy allows for very poor choices.

While I can be personally very uncomfortable and upset by the choices you have outlined .... the question remains .... if a man (as example) engages in activity X (a "bad" activity) and a pregnant woman engages in the same activity AND this activity results in damage or death of her fetus .... should this woman be treated differently than the man (in this example) by the criminal justice system?

Again ... I am going to be personally horrified .... but, I do not advocate a separate system of justice (ie a male performance artists ingesting thalidomide with no repercussions whatsoever and a female .... with possibly severe criminal consequences).

I think we should be putting a tremendous amount of resources into the public health aspect of this, and like you do NOT believe criminalizing behavior of pregnant citizens is the right way to go (in my case I am appalled by it).

psychological/mental health counseling for the long term. Prison was NOT an option.

I would hope the OBs and pediatricians/Family Practice MDs would revolt at that point.

but should NOT get the rubella vaccine.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_vacpregnant.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a601176.html

Thank you for your correction!

The problem is the P in Tdap. We don't really have diphtheria in this hemisphere anymore. Tetanus...well, we aren't as agrarian as we once were and don't spend as much time outside barefoot. But pertussis KILLS babies who can't start the series of vaccines until 2 mos. and there is a resurgence, even in previously vaccinated individuals.

My kids love your avatar/name BTW

Replied to your other thread, but reposting here:

If health care professionals don't know what a woman is taking, prescription or otherwise, it can be real hard to treat the mother and the baby after delivery. If she feels safe giving full disclosure of substances used during pregnancy, we can get her into treatment, improving odds for both mother and baby.

The anti-woman measures like this around the country are also anti-child. But remember the GOP motto: Save the fetus, the hell with the child.

issue. I think the Wisconsin issue is also a closely related personhood issue that is being pushed in many states.




ismnotwasm (19,441 posts)

Irish doctors seek legal advice over brain-dead pregnant woman [View all]
Ireland’s highly restrictive abortion laws have come under renewed focus after it emerged that doctors in an Irish hospital are seeking legal advice over whether they can switch off the life support machine of a brain-dead woman who is 16 weeks pregnant.

The family of the woman want the medical team there to allow her to die. The woman, who is understood to be in her mid to late twenties, suffered head trauma and a clot to the brain.

But even though there is no chance of revival, doctors at the hospital are reluctant to carry out her family’s wishes because she is 16 weeks pregnant.

Under the 8th amendment to the Irish Republic’s constitution the foetus inside her is as much an Irish citizen as the clinically dead mother.


In 1983 a coalition of conservative Catholic pressure groups sought and won a national referendum that effectively made even the embryo after conception an Irish citizen fully protected under the law.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1255
1


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=53393

WTF?

Anyone who would do this deserves to be disbarred

The DEA has assumed control of American medical practice. Hospitals will put patients through cold turkey withdrawal, rather than dispense prescribed opioid pain meds. Their policies have nearly killed my husband and driven me to suicide.

Then we have the supposed 'holy' fundy deacons calling for the death of everyone in the LGBT community. It's like we landed in bizzarro world, but in fact this is everyday life in America post-9/11.

What the fuck happened?

Men treat our 'personal space' as sacrosanct and some get instantly violent if it is penetrated. Society accepts this fact. Why don't women get the same right? Still second class citizens in 2014. Pathetic imo.

And what the fuck is up with throwing her in a dungeon cell and hoping she dies? I mean, that is kind of what I infer when someone withholds medicine. I'm surprised the cops did not brand her.

If it is possible to sue the living shit out of an entity, I hope she becomes a billionaire.

That would be one way to do it. We could refuse sexual advances (or get our tubes tied). We could vote for our own self-interests. We could move to areas where our bodies aren't governed.

Women have a lot of sovereignty but most refuse to use it because in doing so, we must go to extremes because it's plainly obvious there's no stopping this kind of legislation in some places and taking that sovereignty in hand is often difficult if not impossible.