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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHigh School’s Bold Decision to Outlaw School Dances
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/high-schools-bold-decision-to-outlaw-school-105619714967.htmlHopkinton principal Evan Bishop sent a letter to parents on Wednesday, explaining that dances have been canceled indefinitely because student behavior, particularly the sexual nature of the dancing, is becoming increasingly inappropriate, despite repeated warnings and redirection from the chaperones.
The letter continues: We have had many students come forward to report they do not feel comfortable at the dances because of the nature of the dancing. To us, this is unacceptable and we will not allow this to continue without trying to improve the environment. we have determined at this point that the correct decision is to discontinue the dances held at the high school unless and until we can restore the environment to one where all students feel safe and comfortable.
In his letter, Bishop says the school will hold forums with students to discuss solutions that could bring dances back and encourages student suggestions for improving the dances. The school holds three or four dances a year but the ban does not include Junior Prom, which is held at a different venue and, according to the letter, has not been of significant concern in the past.
Up until now, Hopkinton has been known for two things: UConn women's hoops star Kara Wolters, and the start of the Boston Marathon. I suggest that Wolters show up at the start line and lead the field in a gigantic twerk!
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)In the 1950s. But the nuns let the dances go on.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#Commercial_breakout_and_controversy_.281956.E2.80.9358.29
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Why don't Baptists screw standing up?
Because people might think they were dancing.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Where the hell is Kevin Bacon when you need him.
monmouth4
(9,708 posts)madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)May be 5 by now.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)I don't think there's a place for twerking at a high school dance, but twerking isn't the main problem. It's the grinding and dry humping that goes on with two partners facing one another that makes other students uncomfortable. Is a high school dance really supposed to be about group sex with clothes on?
I so long for the days when students waited to get to the back seat of the car.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)be banned at public high schools? How about holding hands?
When is the US going to learn that being 'offended' or being made 'uncomfortable' does not mean others have to change their behavior for you?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)You're going to compare a "kiss" to bumping and grinding?
Do you think there should be any boundaries in a public place occupied by mostly minors?
And as long as you don't see anything, maybe the chaperones should ignore the girl in the shadows giving that guy a blow job. Huh? After all, it's a little dark and no one can see his penis. "Just shut the fuck up, you old prude!"
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)people dance now. The minuet won't be making a surprise comeback.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)on each other. I know, since I've been a chaperone. Only once in the last two years, since I don't want to be "that" parent.
And I think you meant to type "how 'some' people dance now," since plenty of teens get wild and crazy and even sexual without being so vulgar.
People might watch performers bump and grind, but it's not how many adults are going to let teens dance in high school. Or maybe we should just install some poles in the gym and tell 'em to have at it.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)You want strippers at the dances!?
Geez, there are lurking chaperones, and this isn't 1940.
If you don't chill and trust the kids, all is lost. Just let them dance. It's not for you to be the morals police, or complain that they aren't waltzing.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)when they are at the dance. And do you really think with lawsuits and liability issues there wouldn't be chaperones? If the kids can't find "x" amount of adults to chaperone the dances, there wouldn't be any dances. Geez, even in my day kids were trying to sneak in alcohol, smoking, and doing drugs in the bathrooms. Well, they still try to do it, and it's still against the rules.
Now, what they do after they leave the dance is entirely their business and not for me to judge. I just hope they are using protection if they're having sex.
TBF
(32,068 posts)but from your posts in this thread I can tell that you ARE "that" parent ...
smh
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)then live with it or try to make it illegal. If you are a parent and don't want your kids to see bumping and grinding (or da gayz) then keep your minor children away from that activity.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Guess what? There's a lot of legal activities that are not allowed on school grounds. Bumping and grinding is just one of them.
And as far as gays...we've had gay "couples" (not just individuals) attend dances for a few years. It's not a big deal, and if the parents don't like it, they can take their kids to private school.
But, yeah...there are some expected standards of behavior. It's a school event - not a private party.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)district rep stated) but rather what they were offended by?
Do you think that those students offended by same sex couples DOA's are any less offended that those that are forced to see fully clothed, consenting individuals engaging in legal behavior?
I don't think so.
What my point is though is I DON"T CARE IF YOU ARE OFFENDED!
We don't and should not base public policy on if someone is offended.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)about your opinion.
Public school policy tends to lie somewhere between being offended and being legal.
Which is where it should be. Not everything that is legal is acceptable at school, work, or any number of places, and no no one has a right not be be offended.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)thing wrong.
Anyway, thanks for the conversation.
Have a good rest of your day.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)These are kids and it's a school event.
Trillo
(9,154 posts)"You're going to compare a "kiss" to bumping and grinding? "
Television has, for more than 60 years, used the "kiss" as a metaphor for sexual intercourse, for example, a couple goes to bed and all they do is kiss -- kiss -- kiss -- kiss -- kiss, long, passionate lips-on-lips kisses, uh huh.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)when romance was romance and not just sex? And some of it was left to your imagination? LOL
I'm not longing to go back to the days of twin beds, but it'd be nice to see a few romantic kisses before the thrusting.
Trillo
(9,154 posts)but what I remember is they never got to the thrusting. Could be frustrating.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)in some part.
I miss the romantic tension before the main characters jumped into bed together.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)It was just sexual in nature. So it could be the twerking or it could be some of the girls were harassed. It's best to learn all of the truth.
I did a search on the article - the word 'same' was not used in the article. The word 'Gay' was only found for another article linked to the article. And the word 'Homo' was found because it's in the word Sophomore. So it doesn't seem to be an LGBT issue or we just weren't given enough information to know better.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)perfectly legal, yet 'offensive' to some individual or group, like dancing, or even a particular type of dancing, should be banned because that individual is offended, then why would those 'offended' by same sex DOA's not have that same ability?
What is the rule?
That is my question.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)If offense is applied consistently, the offense may be validly reviewed. If the offense is applied only to one group out of many, it is not worth the review, as bigoted opinions being challenged is not the same as being sincerely offended...
Is the offense taken to same-sex kissing applied consistently to all kissing? No? Next...
It's not a rule... merely common sense.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)slow dancing body to body is offensive, Others would say slow dancing without 2 inches of separation is offensive.
What you seem to be saying is "I agree with those that find this offensive, thus it is ok to ban". Am I wrong?
If someone (or group) was offended by slow dancing without a 2 inch separation, should their being offended have anything to do with the dance being allowed?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)is off limits on school grounds.
And I'm pretty damn sure it's off limits in most work places, as well.
"Legal" has never been the standard for much of life. You know...common courtesy, manners, good judgment, decorum and all those outmoded ideas that most kids will actually need to get a job.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)separation is overtly sexual and is offended, do you believe the dances should be canceled?
Or, is it just that you agree that this type of bump-and-grind dancing is offensive so it should be banned?
Why is your offense somehow more valid that the 1st student's offense?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)A lady's ankle no longer causes scandal, for which I am thankful, but I can't say I look forward to the day when her vulva at the school dance does not.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)by is not offensive to a sizeable minority (I am a bit fuzzy on the number as the OP just says 'some students' - and I doubt MOST students are offended by the dancing) then at that point your being actually offended is illegitimate. Is that a fair assessment? If not, please explain as I am (obviously and not for the first time!) confused......
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Have a nice day.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)and the article used the word 'uncomfortable' not 'offended'
I have danced with men where I have felt very uncomfortable because they got too close too quickly and I hardly know them.
BTW I did a search on the word 'offend' and it was not once used in that Yahoo article. But the word 'uncomfortable' was. So unless there have been other articles attached other than the one by the OP that have more information that I have not read, I am going with strictly with what I have read and not assuming anything more than that.
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/high-schools-bold-decision-to-outlaw-school-105619714967.html
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)having to see couples slow dancing without 2 inches of body separation. Does that student or group of students feelings of being uncomfortable mean that dances should be banned?
If not, why not? Are their feelings less valid?
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)But come on, these are kids and some of this dancing is very sexual in nature. And some of these kids might not want someone else grinding up against them and some of these kids might also be bullied because they won't participate. And some of these kids doing the dancing might be taking it too far on others who aren't interested.
So do we tell them to STFU and say they have no voice? That if someone wants to grind against them that they should just stand there and let it happen else be ridiculed at school the next day? What's a little sexual harassment at a school dance?
What happened to teaching our kids that everyone has a voice.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)won't participate. Some of the kids slow dancing may take it too far on others who aren't interested.
So do we tell them to STFU and say they have no voice? That if someone wants to dance without 2 inches of separation that they should just stand there and let it happen else be ridiculed at school the next day? What's a little sexual harassment (in that student's opinion) at a school dance?
What happened to teaching our kids that everyone has a voice.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is that really what we want?
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Because you are discussing a dance that was never once mentioned in the the article or even the secondary link.
But if makes you feel happy I will google for the name of every dance known to mankind and we can have hypothethical arguments of how each of those dances should be handled in those situations. Because I don't want to upset you that I only read what was in the article and refused to do any more of these 'What-ifs' about things not in the article.
Now, please focus on the facts of the article and please do not stray, work with me here.
There are absolutely NO OTHER DANCES MENTIONED. But if you reply again about yet again hypothetical situation of what we should do if the question is this so called 2-inch rule which is not a part of the article then I will start asking you about every other dance I can think of so we can also debate those issues. There is no issue about the 2-inch rule that I am at this time aware of in this article but I do respect the fact that maybe tomorrow an updated article might come out and details change. (I'll worry about that when it comes). There was mention about two dance names - moves like twerking and other dirty dancing.. Those dances tend to NOT have 2-inches between the people dancing them but a more sexual nature dancing.
You've got this single track mind on an issue totally not related to the article and you won't let go. Why? I do not get it. What I see is a school that has a concern that honestly I think is valid. The dancing isn't 2-inches apart it is a few kids sexually grinding on the dance floor and other kids feel uncomfortable. For kids under 18 this is totally appropriate that they complain. The school offered a valid solution - open forum to discuss the issue in hopes to have school dances again. The school even said that dances not held on school property would not be affect since it's not their problem.
Until we are given more information stop reading extra into it. I know I was arguing that the 'uncomfortable' was that girls might be getting sexually harassed/rape and honestly, that was probably just as bad as your 'kids are getting too puritan at the damn dance'.
I think for me kids need to be kids. The sexual dancing, there is a place for that and at a dance filled with minors is not that place. And just so you know, my definition of sexual dancing is when there is excessive grinding of the pelvis/buttocks on one another no light of day between the parts. In a private home or night club with adults - if someone feels uncomfortable they need to leave.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Is that a common problem? I never went to dances and occasionally went to clubs ages 18-21 and never danced. Just not my thing, it wasn't a big deal except for boredom until I hit the drinking age.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)I think the 'bullying' was more along the lines of sexual harassment. Mind you, no one ever defined what the kids meant by 'uncomfortable' other than some of the kids were dancing sexual in nature. But I think my first thought with 'uncomfortable' was that some of the boys might have been 'putting the moves on' so to speak with some of the girls and that those girls were not feeling very comfortable at the dance.
I honestly have to blame that Rolling Stone article about the UVA Rape. After that article it's like the internet exploded about all the issues with Fraternities and the problems with Frat Parties where girls were getting sexually harassed and raped. So somehow that got projected into my mind when I saw the word 'uncomfortable'. Girl goes to the dance, cute football player asks her to dance and next thing you know that cute football player is grinding his pelvis up hard against her in a very sexual nature. Some girls might like that but not all of them. Some might still be too young to deal with that kind of stuff.
But it's like the argument I'm having with someone who thinks it's about kids not wanting to see people dance 2-inches away from each other. This was not actually mentioned in the article and perhaps I am overthinking it.
Unfortunately as for bullying, yeah kids do that. Kids will bullying over the strangest damn things if given the change and the bullying is left unchecked. In my school - I was bullied because I was going to hell because I listened to Satan's music like Led Zeppelin. I shit you not. Gotta love those so-called 'Fundie Christians'. But as someone who really follows what Jesus says - I forgive them anyways.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)By uncomfortable we don't know what they mean so I won't speculate.
Personally, dancing was uncomfortable for me which is why I never did it. They didn't call it "twerking" back then, I think it was "freak dancing" was introduced to me by 2 girls describing it as "like having sex with your clothes on". Never got that far, just saw them one time after that -- visiting relatives that lived in my complex at-the-time.
My girlfriend who later became my wife was over the drinking age when I met her so she would always go to clubs, I was at-first uncomfortable she would do this type of dancing with other people but then I realized its just dancing. Other forms such as ballroom dancing can be quite sexual. She'd try to teach me but I just felt silly standing there while she's doing whatever.
As to the bullying, if they're doing it over all sorts of silly reasons what can we do? I can see 'uncomfortable' from you perspective but it is also possible they could be uncomfortable just doing the dance like I am when it comes to any sort of dance but it is a little different, in that case don't participate and let those that want to, do. As far as bullying, address it when it comes but usually bullying for me came in the form of trying to be taken advantage of, I learned not to enable my bullies but everyone's experience is different. I just have my personal experience to draw from.
I'm more on your side than the side that simply wants to ban the dance because they don't like it or don't want teens engaging in the sort of contact which they already are if they wanted to.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)There is so much speculation going on here because the article very vague. So the bullying is nothing more than an assumption.
But we do know there is sexual style dancing and seriously, it really is uncalled for if the kids are dancing to the point of grinding on each other. Yes I know the kids could do it in the back seat of a car or in their parent's basement, but that is someone else's problem and not the school's. That's why the school said they are not cancelling the prom - the prom isn't being held on school property.
In the end - kids do not mature at the same age. So what some kids think is fun or feels good, others might think is awkward or even uncomfortable especially if they have to watch others do it or if someone tries to get them to do it and they aren't comfortable doing it. Kids should be kids. If kids want to grind, then stay home and do it in private and not in public.
And I want to end with this odd situation, not mentioned in the article but a possibility. If two grown adults walked into that high school dance and started grinding heavy on the dance floor in a manner that, as you described, "like having sex with your clothes on" - wouldn't that be considered something worthy of permanent registration to a sex offenders list? Consider this - a high school dance you could have kids there ranging from the age of 14-15 years of age up to 18 years of age maybe a 19 year old tossed in there. I know my high school dances were 7-12 grade so our range was even wider. So you got seniors in there and they are 18 years of age grinding in a sexual nature on the dance floor - there are kids that are 3-4 years younger out there that are no where near the same level of sexual maturity that are subject to watching this. This actually could also be a liability for a school. There are some crazy things that can land people on that list.
I think the school did the right thing but I do hope that they work with the students to find a way to allow the dances to return.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)"Freak dancing" is typical for rap, r&b, and Latin music.
I'd expect it if they're playing that type but there are club hits that use dance moves as their chorus such as "shoulder lean" and "2 step".
However, Soulja Boy's #1 hit (club song) is far more inappropriate than any type of dancing when looking up his lyrics at Urban Dictionary.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)and she's really just a few years older than the kids dancing to it.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Go to rap or Latin club and tell me what you see.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)just on this of a logical fallacy argument to me.
Bullying can be fostered by being allowed and ignored or even worse it is put on better or equal ground with the most effective deterrent to bullies which is relentlessly inflicting too much pain to make the exercise rewarding and if at all possible mash them to a pulp.
Make no mistake though bullies are bullies and to a large extent the bullied are the bullied. From personal experience, the more I allowed myself to be bullied the more bullies seemed to manifest and the more I wouldn't put up with it at any cost the fewer reared their heads to me.
They are predators and recognize their prey, when you decide you will not be prey the fewer predators see you as a target.
Balance is often the key to a good life and the balance here is neither having to validate yourself by desperately trying to demonstrate worth by showing dominance and not putting up with being how those pitiful fucks get their little rocks off.
Canceling dances is not a legitimate response to bullies, a show of weakness is always counterproductive.
I also see little to no evidence this is even a driver in this. Seems mostly an argument buffer, an emotional embellishment in context.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)I see the administration offering an open forum so options can be discussed to bring the dances back. I like that he is offering the children a chance to find a solution so the kids have a right to have their dances.
And the teachers were smart to say that this would only affect school held dances.
And in the end - bullying is simply something many of us are ASSUMING from the article. We've also assumed the kids were 'uncomfortable' with same-sex couples dancing, couples of different races, 2-inches between couples still too close, rape, sexual harassment and now bullying. But if you read the article (and not only have I read it but I search the article for those words and similar ones mentioned) no where were any of those things mentioned as the reason why the children were feeling uncomfortable.
The only thing we were told from the article was that the dances were of a sexual nature and for young children watching that I think is a legitimate complaint to say this is uncomfortable to watch especial if the kids who keep insisting on doing it have ignored requests to stop it. We don't know what the dancing it. The article showed 'Footloose' and mentioned 'Dirty Dancing' - and the dancing in those was harmless (Footloose) to a bit sexy (Dirty Dancing). But if you have kids out there dancing like something out of the club scene like 'Basic Instinct' then yeah there could be an issue.
In the end these are underage kids. For the kids who want to grind on the dance floor they could easily do it anywhere they like but I think at a school function it's pretty inappropriate. I mean consider it this way. If I, as a grown adult, walked into a High School dance with another grown adult and then proceeded to dance on the dance floor grinding my groin up and down in a manner like I was having sex on the dance floor and doing it in a room full of kids ages 13-18, I might find my future registered on a sex offenders list. So why would it be any more appropriate or acceptable or even lest uncomfortable for underage children to watch if the two people grinding were kids that happened to be under the age of 18?
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 19, 2014, 06:52 PM - Edit history (1)
having to see couples slow dancing without 2 inches of body separation. Does that student or group of students feelings of being uncomfortable mean that dances should be banned?
If not, why not? Are their feelings less valid?
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)You'd be lucky if you see daylight between the bodies.
Not knowing what exactly made them uncomfortable I think that the solution of an open forum for the students was a great solution. They never said dancing was banned but that they wanted to find new solutions so everyone would be happy.
I've been to clubs and I've seen people do just about everything on the dance floor and I've shrugged my shoulder at it. It's not for me but as long as no one drags me into it then I say 'go for it'. But the difference is simple - those clubs were for people over the age of 21 years of age whereas these dances may have a few 18 year olds but probably mostly kids under the age of 18 years of age. So if people are on the dance floor borderline grinding like they are having sex in a room filled with underage kids, yes I have an issue. I have no problems saying that. If it's a club filled with adults, then 'whatever'. Obviously the probably was bad enough because the article said 'many kids felt uncomfortable'.
BTW this was the solution - tell me that fair options were not provided:
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Good post!
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)twerking any more. But there is still that student that really feels uncomfortable when there is slow dancing between two people without 2 inches of separation and feels bullied for not participating. Should the dances be canceled?
The entire point I am trying to make (and apparently am not very good at) is that is very unwise to base public policy of an individual person's (or even a groups) uncomfortable feelings or taking offense.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)The dances defined were 'twerking and other dirty dancing.'
The only time the word 'two' showed up was for another word 'Network' related to another article and the word 'inch' was not found. I also did not find the word slow.
I have said many times and I have been clear that we do not know why the children feel uncomfortable but if it is sexually related dancing which has been defined in the article, these are underage kids, I think people have the right to complain. But maybe there is another link in the article or another store that expanded what happened but I'm still reading that Yahoo article
BTW I checked this link:
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/high-schools-bold-decision-to-outlaw-school-105619714967.html
And this one:
http://www.hcam.tv/news/high-school-cans-all-dances-due-dirty-dancing
There have been many replies so I will accept that there could be another article that says someone gets weird out when people stand 2 inches near other people and yeah that's just weird. But what I'm reading I see an issue and a huge red flag and I don't even have kids but I have nieces and nephews that age and personally I'd think they would be weirded out at dances watching sexually charged dancing..
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)see if there is some basic concept that we can use other than (as your response points out) "since I think it is wrong it should be banned".
You are saying that you think twereking is sexually related dancing. You then say that since it is sexual related dancing and could make a student uncomfortable that it is appropriate to 1) ban twerking and 2) if the students still twerk, to ban daces all together. You say this is because some student may feel uncomfortable of be bullied for feeling this way.
Do you not see (and all you have to do is look at history) that some other people find two people slow dancing less than 2 inches apart, or even dancing at all, to be sexually related dancing? Do you not see that they could feel just as uncomfortable as the student exposed to twerking, do you not see how they could be bullied for those feelings?
You may say that is absurd, but who are you to judge their uncomfortable feelings?
So, I ask again, do we structure our society to avoid the uncomfortable feelings of others? I think not.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)I have never once said to ban the dances. I said that they had a good plan which was the open forum discussions so they could find a way to return the dances. It gave a way for the children and adults to all have a voice. You remember democracy.
If you like I could list the 82 trillion different types of dances out there and we could list the hypothetical out comes of each of those including your 2-inch scenarios so we could guess if any child may or may not feel uncomfortable. But here's the thing- at no time was any other dance listed other than twerking and dances of sexual nature. That's all we are talking about in the article. And we are not talking about adults feeling uncomfortable but children, many children in fact was mentioned as complaining as feeling uncomfortable
The kids talked about feeling uncomfortable - I see that as being one of two things - they are kids and still feel weird around sex, I know I was when I was still 14-15 years old. So watching people basically grinding sexually on the dance floor - that can be really awkward. But uncomfortable could also be that a boy was inappropriate to a girl (or girls) on the dance floor while dancing - that is a very serious problem but I will cede to the fact that I could be reading more into the article then what is there like your 2-inch dancing/same-sex couples.
When it comes to adults - HELL NO. When it comes to children and ESPECIALLY since we do not know exactly why the children felt uncomfortable then hell yes especially when the only dances defined in the article were dances listed as sexual in nature. They are kids and they have a right to go to a dance and act like kids and I for one hope that the open forum is a way that they can solve the problem.
As for the dirty dancers - that's what parent's basements are for. I did the bump and grind as an older kid but I did it in the basement of someone's house, not at the school dance.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)clearly.
Ok, so from this sentence:
"When it comes to adults - HELL NO."
We are on the same page as to adults.
Then you write this:
"When it comes to children and ESPECIALLY since we do not know exactly why the children felt uncomfortable then hell yes especially when the only dances defined in the article were dances listed as sexual in nature. They are kids and they have a right to go to a dance and act like kids and I for one hope that the open forum is a way that they can solve the problem."
Some even today think ALL dancing is sexual in nature (see strict southern Baptists/some Anabaptist churches). Others think slow dancing is sexual in nature. So, lets say student who REALLY believes that slow dancing is sexual in nature, and feels uncomfortable seeing slow dancing and then get's bullied for not engaging in slow dancing. I would assume you believe that students feelings should be accommodated, right?
If the accommodation is to not have that student go to the dance, could you not say the same to the students who are uncomfortable/bullied for not twerking? Just don't attend the dance?
If the uncomfortable feelings of that student should not be accommodated, but those that are uncomfortable with twerking are, are you not saying that the 'slow dancing is uncomfortable to me' students feelings are less valid than the 'twerking is uncomfortable to me' students? Do you think that is a problem?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)to a straight couple grinding and bumping.
No, they are not the same.
A same sex couple kissing is like a straight couple kissing. Period.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)uncomfortable by seeing two people kissing. The other was offended by two people dancing. However, I will concede it is not a great analogy.
Thus, let's suppose that a student feels that two people slow dancing makes that person feel uncomfortable. (before you say 'that's absurd!' think of southern baptists and some Anabaptist religions) They truly feel uncomfortable seeing people slow dance and maybe even feel bullied for having that position.
Should their actual, real, not made-up (but generally ridiculous) feeling uncomfortable mean that others should not be able to slow dance?
My point was not about WHAT the person was offended by or WHAT made the person feel uncomfortable, but rather that we as a society seem to be reducing public interactions to what is so vanilla that is offends nobody.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)drug policies in schools, which prevent girls from bringing even Tylenol for cramps. I think some drugs are acceptable in school and others are not.
And at school dances I don't require absolute tolerance of any behavior whatsoever. It is possible to decide some behaviors are acceptable and some are not; and it's often a good idea to try.
What would not be acceptable would be for an administrator to decide that it's okay for straight couples to kiss but not gay couples.
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)with the distinctions you mention. Are they not, by definition, arbitrary? It was not all that long ago that chaperones at dances would go around during slow dances with a ruler making sure there was 2 inches of separation between couples. Is that appropriate? In not, why not? Why is that different than 'bump and grind'?
At the end of the day, does in not come down to "well, I think it is offensive, so I am OK with banning it"? Why is your, mine, or the elf-on-a-shelf's 'offence' more valid than the Church Lady's offense?
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)IN today's economy, should Public Schools still
spend resources on "dances" or extracurricular sports?
We need more teachers, teachers need better pay,
more classroom resources, etc.
Students are falling on the international stage..
Yet resources are squandered on activities which are NOT
focused on ACADEMIC improvement.
It's about priorities.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Most dances are paid for by the tickets they sell to get into the dance. Which are paid for with real money that mom or dad or the dancing kid pulls out of their wallet.
former9thward
(32,028 posts)Schools spend more on paper clips than holding a dance.
Response to Cosmic Kitten (Reply #16)
HERVEPA This message was self-deleted by its author.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Most school dances are funded by the selling of tickets. I live in a fairly wealthy school district (as far as school districts go), and I can assure you that the taxpayers are not paying for the homecoming dance.
And many moons ago, the taxpayers didn't pay for any dances in my old high school, either.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)But social events are not something which Public education need be concerned.
former9thward
(32,028 posts)Which causes me to wonder if you were ever at a school social event. Young people need to learn to socialize if they are going to amount to anything in life. You don't do that at home looking at your computer.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)public/taxpayer money is paying for.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018702157
Personally, I would rather pay for a dance.
bluesbassman
(19,375 posts)I got hit up for money for all of the extracurricular activities they were both involved in. If the school district "squandered" any money on those things it was a minor amount and didn't prevent the advancement of academic improvement.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)the cost of equipment, coaching, transportation,
fields, courts, INSURANCE, medical Tx etc
have to come from somewhere.
For example;
What does it cost a high school to field a football team?
What does EVERYTHING added up cost,
What is the cost per player?
Is that the best use of Public funds?
former9thward
(32,028 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)bluesbassman
(19,375 posts)OK, the gym, locker room, fields were capitalized during school construction, but all of those facilities are used by the entire student body.
What's your real beef here? Just don't like sports and recreation or do you really not see any intrinsic value there. No art classes, no music programs either in your view?
justamama83
(87 posts)They sell tickets to the dances around here no more than $5 except for the prom which is off campus. Most of the time the PTO/PTA picks up the cost of the snacks and DJ through fundraising or outright requests for donations. Even so - the cost of a dance would be minimal and socialization is a huge huge part of the school experience so I would have no issue with my tax dollars being spent on this a few times a year.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)If anything, I think maybe they might be doing the right thing.
First, I read the entire article and I haven't seen anything that says this is race and/or LBGT related. It's just dancing of a sexual nature.
Second, I don't know exactly what the kids complained about. Maybe they are kids being prude and for that I would say 'don't go to the dances'. But it may be kids who were sexually harassed at the dance. It could have been a girl asked to dance and the boy who got a too close for comfort to the point that the girl felt threatened at that dance. And for that I would take issue especially if she wasn't the only one having that sort of issue.
I do like the fact that the people in charge are willing to offer an open forum to discuss the issue - I think that is a mature way the kids can control their destiny and be open and honest about why there is a problem with the dances. If it is just kids being prudes OR there are some racist/homphobic issues then I hope they tell those kids to stay home from the dance or learn not to be so closed minded. But if there are kids at that dance who feel threatened then that is a real issue that needs to be dealt with and we shouldn't be so light to dismiss their concerns.
Ykcutnek
(1,305 posts)and let them bump and grind to their heart's content.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Cause we all have condoms in vending machines at work!
I mean...I can't walk down the hall without seeing two coworkers bumping and grinding and yanking off their shirts.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Birth control and condoms are a part of real life.
I told my sons to 'wrap it up' and bought them the condoms. I don't know that they were ever used but....that's besides the point. Sexually transmitted disease and unwanted pregnancy are a part of real life. Whether YOU like it or not.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Bumping and grinding between employees in the hall is not a part of real life.
Condoms, yes, but not generally at work.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)That sailed right over your head.
The point is - teach kids about birth control and condoms! Because BOTH of those things are part of real life.
Maybe your co-workers are hiding in the stairwell. I sure as hell have.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Somewhere along the way you must have learned something about manners...and privacy.
Something many of us had before CUBICLES!
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Bless your heart.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)your momma didn't teach you manners?
Why....we had dinner every night with Emily Post! Then, Poppa withdrew to his library to smoke a cigar while Momma and the ladies tended their knitting'.
.....
/sarcasm
former9thward
(32,028 posts)Which is SOP for school administrators now. The students will just do things off school grounds without chaperons.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)since their social lives surely consist of more than two or three school dances a year. I would hope so, anyway.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)and maybe feel uncomfortable that other kids there are pressuring them into doing it.
These kids do have rights too. I know I have danced with men who start grinding way too quickly for my taste and I will stop the dance immediately. But for a teenage girl she might not feel comfortable with all the peer pressure.
I think it's wrong for us to assume alot into this article since we do know know the exact nature of what made these kids complain.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)If only North Korea was offended too, this ruling could get some good, old-time-y DU rationalizations going on... ("it was a stupid dance anyways... who cares?"
I only half-jest.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Doesn't this issue come up with every generation?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)They're bumping and grinding with clothes on right now, so the next step would be clothes off.
After that...there's not much place else to go.
neverforget
(9,436 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Look, in the end the key word in that article is 'uncomfortable' and none of us know exactly what that means. Some of you have gone the one direction that it is prudish kids who are hateful, spiteful close-minded assholes who are complaining about other kids not like them. I want you to know that this could be a very valid definition as to what they are defining as 'uncomfortable'. But if you read the article, no where was words related to race and/or sexual preference used in that article. So to say they were upset about same-sex couples dancing together or kids of another race - it's all assumptions.
Maybe my assumptions went the other way, because I know last time I danced with someone and felt uncomfortable was when some guy I barely met started to bump and grind way too close for my tastes. I have no issues with dancing close with someone else but not some total stranger I just met. But my solution was to say 'Thank you' and walk away. But what if the people who complained of feeling 'uncomfortable' were girls being targeted by boys who were making sexual advances at them and not in a good way? Don't you think the school has a right to intervene and address the issue especially if it seems there are many girls experiencing the same issue. Better to be pro-active in the issue than to have several families complain their girls were raped at the school dance.
The article is vague, but for us to assume either reason probably not smart. What we can hope is that these open forum will come to some dialogue where the dances can resume again and that people will not feel uncomfortable (and we don't find out it was the first reason because that would piss me off!)
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)markpkessinger
(8,401 posts)"High School Makes Quixotic Move to Hold Back the Tide of Teenage Hormones"
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)this was Little Innocent Me the first couple times this happened: "Huh?! ... wait ... is that? .. no way .. he wouldn't push one of those up against me ... but, uh, it feels like something is there ... hmmm ..." In retrospect, that type of dancing was about as close to sex as you could get with clothes on.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)because I retired in 2002.
But when I see what passes for on-stage Pop entertainment (hello, Miley, Nicki, Rita, etc.!), ya gotta wonder what is imitated by the 17- and 18-year-olds.
E.g.: Miley:
H.S. dance:
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)fine for kids to be doing that in school.
Not that long ago we would look at that young woman in the second picture and wonder if she was drunk. Really. Now, we're supposed to think it's ok that girls choose to "dance" like this when they're fourteen.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)d_r
(6,907 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)We were not allowed to do the Twist about six months later it became allowed but not the Peppermint Twist ...you had to be there .
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)I graduated in 1999, no high school dances. We all survived just fine.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)If it was good enough for me, it's good enough for my grand-children...
So long as you damn kids stay off my lawn...
petronius
(26,602 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)a school event, and kids are never going to stop rebelling and pushing the boundary.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)LynneSin
(95,337 posts)It is pretty sexual in nature especially if people are grinding.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)In certain demographicially unique enclaves, nothing gets the canes thumping, the walkers rattling, and the teeth flying like a good ol' fashioned moral panic.
TexasTowelie
(112,252 posts)irisblue
(32,982 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:11 AM - Edit history (1)
1-leave the gym lights ALL THE WAY UP, as there were a basketball game
2-massive presence of parents to chaperon
3-Raid All the convents in the Massachusetts area..... nuns walking the dance floor were major buzz kill, (springing many pagan babies from purgatory)
4-Dozens of Parents in parking lots with HUGE deer hunting lights to shine into cars.
5-Can you tell I went to St Hedwig, second generation Polish Catholic Church in the 1970s?
it was a minimal problem....course it exploded in college, someone elses problem then.
6-just as well I didn't breed.
7-make the nuns, massive chaperone presence and deer lights an irregular unannounced event.
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)SARCASM.
Can we just let kids be kids?
IF there really are students complaining about the dances, I bet I can make one very solid guess about one trait every one of them shares.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Best. Flamewar. Ever! Now if we can just find a way to have people breastfeeding their pit bulls while smoking at Olive Garden.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)But it's still batshit.
LynneSin
(95,337 posts)Do you have children?
Would you take them to a club and let them watch two adults dance on the dance floor where they were grinding in a sexual manner that might look like they were simulating sex?
Is that something okay for kids to watch?
I'm not a prude here. If indeed the kids are dancing in a way as mention in the article that was 'sexual in nature' which to me isn't something out of 'Footloose' but more like out of the club scene at 'Basic Instinct'. AND if the administration has tried to get the kids doing it to stop but they insist on still doing it I think the school has a right to step in as long as they provide the children an option of how they can resume the dances. And they did - they have offered an open forum where they can talk about the issue and find a solution so dances can be held again.
And they also said this was for school functions only. The Prom was not cancelled, off-site dances are not cancelled. I think fair solutions were offered in the article and to me it sounds like a few students were acting out of control, not stopping their bad behavior when asked and the school is trying to find a way to make all happy.
It may work or for all I know I may be on the wrong end of the argument.
All I know is I'm glad I'm not a kid today - personally the music they listen to sucks!
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)I just know from my own memories of high school that it's foolish trying to control teenagers on this subject. Like juggling water.
But you're right on the rest of it. Their music is crap. Music in "my day" (cringe) was a lot more out-of-control. There weren't so much "moves" as punches, kicks, and dives. Of course, I wasn't the type to go to a dance, so that's another reason I know nothing.