I think they got off on that. Stopping random lets face it black men and frisking them just because they could.

their "reasonable suspicion" skills were pure shit.

I think they were doing it because they liked it.

Bureau chiefs want to make Chief of Department or Deputy Commissioner, so they want their numbers to go up. This gets pushed on Inspectors and Captains, who push it on down to Lieutenants and Sergeants, and before you know it every beat cop is making bullshit stops, lest they get stuck working the armory at Rodman's Neck.

"Juke the stats and majors become colonels"

Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. (And a pretty good intoxicant, too, IMO.)

I find it a little repellent, doesn't matter much which end of it I'm on.

Seemed to work for Kissinger though.

belief in the superiority of whites. It's mostly about the ability exercise authority and evoke fear in another. These same men probably beat their wives too. Check out the stats on domestic abuse involving police...and only half of these instances are reported.

They're pissed because they can't meet their quotas so easily by locking up minorities.

are mad as hell about MJ becoming legal. No more easy stoner busts. Now that will have to go after actual criminals!

The police unions give heavily to the Democrats.

"Had it your way" for many years and they have dished out their anger (personal problems) on the unsuspecting populace.

NOW...that shit is coming to an end and they're starting to see that by continuing their evil ways they might actually be punished or thrown off the force. That's a lot for these scumbags to handle.

None of those arguments are illogical. You have to really hate a group if you believe it's wrong for anyone to defend them ever. Or any one of them.

I bet you'd object if we attacked your job that way.

Engineers dont murder people and hide behind their ASME cards.

but it is not a successful strategy. Sorry, this made me laugh as I know a lot of engineers and this thread would confuse them. So much emotion.

And pull out a crackerjack badge with ASME written on it.

tis true

What if everybody was an engineer?

You are responsible for most pollution. How's that? Did we need all those bridges and factories? They destroy the environment. You must be a real jerk to do that. How's that?

The people who make and purchase their products are responsible. All we do is make the things that you want a little bit better.

But to take the same tact as the police. Any crimes we commit are offset by the greatness of the technological developments we selflessly made for you.

Because your profession is like, the superior one?

People still commit crimes. Someone has to be empowered to arrest them. Many cops selflessly put their lives on the line dealing with these criminals. They make mistakes like anyone else.

You don't put your life on the line or deal with anyone who is criminal or mentally ill as part of your job. Lucky you and get to snidely put down people who aren't in your superior profession. That sounds a lot like a lot of conservatives.

And your last line seems to say it's OK if you commit crimes because you are part of this elite?

I work in manufacturing. It is just as dangerous (if not more dangerous) as being a police officer.

I, for one, respect and admire their dedication and hard work ethic. Standing in that little railroad cab all night long pulling on that whistle thingy as it goes thru town after town must be very tiring.

*quietly wishes he had picture of himself at his desk with a train engineers hat*

Hey, emotions are running way too high. Time to breathe. We can try, can't we?

1) I AM an Engineer - 37 years in the trade!

2) Engineers have no union (cuz we're "Professionals", don'tcha know?)

3) Among other things, Engineers design bombs, drones, launch systems, and all manner of offensive weapons. I'll give you the point that MOST Engineers are not habitual murderers - but our hands are not the cleanest in the world, either!

4) When I got out of college, I conscientiously avoided interviewing with companies that I knew worked directly for the DOD. However, every company that I've worked for has had, as customers, companies that work directly for the DOD - it's practically unavoidable in this business. Did you know that even MacIntosh and Bose, companies known for audio products, have contracts with the military?

5) If I'm to be honest with myself, I must admit to the possibility that at some point, some project I've been involved with has resulted in the death of others - and yes, I AM horrified by that ... but this is the profession I decided to train myself for, and I gotta eat, too.

My point here is that WHITEWASHING a profession is STILL painting with a broad brush - it's just a different color of paint.

2)You are correct

3)Inventors are not responsible for negative uses of their inventions.

4)Good for you. The company I work for has military contracts. None of them are for weapons systems.

5)I'm extremely concerned by the possibility that something I've designed could hurt/kill someone. You just have to remember that you have nothing to worry about as long as you are not being negligent or intentionally causing problems.

Designing rollercoasters.

In my humble opinion. I LOVE modern steel rollercoasters. DO NOT LIKE wooden bone shakers.

I don't think he'd kill him, though.

On. Cue.

What job do you do that you are so saintly?

And the cop is always wrong. How fair is that? Yeah, right on cue.

One that does its best to self-police, and one in which most practitioners get awfully, and publicly, upset when a few of its members are found to have violated the fundamental ethics of the profession in order to do terrible things to people.

And yes, I know some excellent, intelligent, compassionate cops who try to do the right thing.

This is not about trashing all law enforcement officers. It's about the lack of internal controls, it's about a profession with immense power over the citizenry, including that of deciding life and death, and a systemic professional culture that shields those who abuse that power.

It's not about the cops. It's about the system.

Astoundingly well said!

What did the kids say back in the mid 2000's? Pwned.

So it's certain groups that it's ok for? How do you determine that?

over shooting and killing people, they belong in a special category.

Last edited Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:17 AM - Edit history (1)

to me that citizens are in the streets in large numbers demanding justice and reform because too many cops paint groups of citizens with a broad brush while on the job, and still other cops are willing to wash that brush off or hide it when something goes awry. I imagine quite a few "good cops" can be found in the latter group. My question to you is very simple. If you are in law enforcement, as you would have us believe, what are you doing to clean up your profession? Or, are you washing brushes for some bad actor? Ethical practice of a profession is pretty basic.

I guess some still find that poster amusing.

a gay person I (I am paraphrasing here) had enough rights, I ceased to find anything at all that they had to say "amusing".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2952192

And then doubled down and tripled down etc. etc.

Blind loyalty is so sad to watch.

Last edited Tue Dec 23, 2014, 04:19 PM - Edit history (6)

yes I can think, about how many generations of BLACK people have gone through WIDESPREAD police abuse for one reason only, you can guess what that reason is. If white people had been going through what people of color, for generations, have had to endure at the hands of the privileged of this society, first just trying to be recognized as a human being with the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as other citizens with a different hue to their skin color. Then trying to hold on to that citizenship for generations without the vote and the continuing abuse of state sanctioned storm troopers, hiding under sheets or not, who continually created terror in the minority communities, white anger would be overwhelming for this society.

Then, finally with the help of compassionate members of the majority race, minority members were finally 'given', after a long and bloody fight with the racist privileged of this society, a voice/vote in our democracy, which in itself was hypocrisy, and still have to fight for that right all the way to Nov 4, 2014 is what this argument boils down to. The policing system in america has always been used to keep people of color "in their place", on a widespread basis, in this country. If white people had been in a reverse situation they would have been fomenting revolution and violence against the oppressor society long before now, no doubt.

Please all this back and forth over civil and human rights is BS. Whether police are good or bad is moot. Even in days of segregation, lynchings, castrations, burnings, there were 'good' cops turning a blind eye to the hate and murder. Black people and people of color are STILL, TODAY, fighting for their right to vote, to live where they please, to keep from being murdered by state sanctioned executioners or just not to be stopped while DWB or stop and frisked only because of WWB. Black people are a very patient people. That is a proven point/fact. All this hand ringing over the two that were killed? It's understood by me yet I'm wondering when the killings in the minority populations at the behest of the privileged by their state sanctioned executioners is going to finally be a thing of the past like slavery, Jim Crow segregation LAWS? People who have racial hate because one happens to have melanin in their skin are still not a thing of the past, and judging by the longevity of that widespread hate, it won't be gone anytime soon. When the police start protecting and serving ALL citizens, then they will gain respect, not the fear and hate they have caused.

This is the deal. This isn't just happening now, this past year or the year before. This injustice has been ongoing for centuries. Time to look at it fully in the face as institutional racism, make amends if that can be done, and change how we go forward as a just society for everyone.

should never be underestimated. Motivated cognition--loosely, holding whatever beliefs you find comforting--is a major factor in determining what we think. Since whites are substantially less likely to experience police brutality and unfair treatment directed at them or their friends, it is much easier for "good whites" to remain ignorant of those aspects of reality. It is (obviously) much harder for black people to deny that reality.

And then, of course, there are the unmitigated racist assholes who may publicly deny, but secretly approve of, racial disparities of all kinds--social class, likelihood of imprisonment, etc.

I live in a state with a black population of about 5%. The inmate population in our prisons is about 50%.

Ten to fuckin' one. If you are black, you are ten times more likely to be in prison in Wisconsin.

More blacks do crime, thus more are in prison.

More blacks in prison proves that more blacks do more crime.

QED

As long as the "good" members of the profession protect them, defend them, and circle the wagons shielding them from criticism. Good cops know who the bad cops are -- and they protect and enable them. If they started cleaning house and tossing out the rogues, then I'd have more respect for the whole profession. Cops who get themselves involved in these situations are often well-known to their fellow cops for their violence and out-of-control behavior. But if anyone outside the department mentions it, the cops get vicious.

The police have to police themselves. If cops started saying enough and getting rid of the bad people would notice and they would regain the respect they have lost.

At this moment in time cops are their own worst enemies for not doing anything about those who abuse the badge.

power, entrusted to them by the people, to kill citizens, or to harass minorities, or to engage in corrupt practices, (see the ticket scandal eg, in NYC).

Actually people are being kind, there are so many scandals attached to the NYPD it's hard to list all of them and their 'ONGOING INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS'.

We know there are good cops. And we know what happens to them when they try to stop the corruption.

I'm not worried about my job being blamed for killing hundreds of citizens every year. Because it doesn't.

I'm not worried about Fire Fighters being blamed for killing hundreds of citizens every year. Because they don't.

When the police stop abusing the people they are supposed to protect, when they stop shooting first and getting away with it, when independent agencies investigate wrong doing rather than their foxes investigating their hen houses, we won't have to worry about the Police either.

I HOPE you would "attack" and expose me.

But apparently you don't feel that way.

I think you might want to read that post again and reconsider your response.

We have a huge problem with police in this country. If you can't recognize that then don't bother reading farther. Of course not all individual police are psychopaths but it's a great job for such. They can and do kill with impunity. I know you know what impunity means but I want to emphasis it: Impunity is a noun that means - 1. exemption from punishment. 2. Immunity from detrimental effects, as of an action. Police across the country are killing citizens, mainly black citizens with IMPUNITY. They are not being held accountable for their actions and the problem is getting worse. This is unacceptable. The worst problem is that those police and police departments that are not psychopathic, enable and defend those that are.

I would hope you'd understand the outrage and forgive a little hyperbole.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays treestar

Hmmm.

Let's see.

Burglar comes into your home. Burglars make certain no one is home then they make silent entry, take a lot of your stuff, and leave. Insurance company pays, you get new stuff, case closed.

Cops come to your home. They roll up in armored vehicles from the Army, cops all decked out in their SWAT gear, break down the door destroying the door frame in the process, terrify you, your family, your neighbors, your dog and cat, charge into the house knocking over lamps, tracking mud and dog shit on the carpet -- ooooppssss -- wrong house. You're left to clean up the mess, insurance doesn't pay.

Who you gonna call?

He left out firefighters too, but they protested with us. The cops locked us up for singing

the rest of the union movement.

Don't know when it happened but we've all seem the vitriol coming from police union reps in NYC and other parts of the country and it ain't pretty.

It's scary, what with the threats of them "being at war" with the citizens of New York, not even a glimmer or word of sympathy for Eric Garner nor his family, the turning of their backs on the mayor, the going bat shit crazy over a mere mention of obviously needed reform after a man is choked to death by one of their members.

That's no way to build support from people, which is what most union want because it strengthens them.

No, police unions are apart from the wider, traditional union movement.

police supporters here, or police apologists...
why do you think they are members of Police Union, or is that a known fact?

Just curious. Interesting if so.

Because they use those dogs to "smell drugs" on command so they can manufacture probable cause.

are probably former military who served several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. They say an adrenaline high is as additive as any other drug and you must continue to feed it. Those guys who were on alert 24/7 come back to comparably mundane lives. They seek out a profession where they can get their adrenaline fix. Or they are so spooked by their tours, that everyone is out to kill them, they can't make the distinction between a toy gun and a real one. All they know is to shoot before they get shot.

Since 9/11 we have been building a climate of hatred. We have allowed ourselves to become this monstrosity. We let people destroy lives and we award them for it. Then we wonder why the shit gets bad in the streets.

many people who are drawn to police work have just been bullies their whole lives. They enjoy the feeling of domination over others. They get something like an endorphin rush when they're inflicting pain on others.

I've always said that the desire to become a cop should itself come under very intense scrutiny during the application process.

There is little downside to abusing citizens when your union will protect you and promote you even when an innocent is abused. I mean, if you are a violent psychopath in uniform.

There is absolutely ZERO way of making that a reasonable feature of a civilized society.

As a Democrat I have always supported unions and especially public employee unions such as police unions. As progressives we should be standing up and defending unions

And I don't "claim" to support unions, I DO support unions. I don't appreciate your innuendo. If I say I support unions that's exactly what I mean.

director for seven full years, during the time when the worst allegations of labor abuse were alleged by women and those who claimed to have been forced to work overtime without pay.

only one vote and unfortunately her objections were overruled by other directors. But as I said she has always been a strong union supporter.

Of course I realize that there are some Clinton haters out there who believe she is the devil incarnate and there is no reasoning with them.

Or less? (In your opinion.)

This is not about Bill.

Always has. She would have never gotten where she is without him, IMO.

Bill was NO friend of unions, and so it will be with Hillary.

And I'm sure that there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. And your assertion that she is running for a third Bill Clinton term is merely speculation on your past probably fueled by your dislike of the Clinton's.

But the Police union is one of the WORST actors on the scene in these murders. They are siding with the cops EVERY TIME, even advocating for cops who kill unarmed "civilians" to get their jobs back. Just go and look at the statements of the Police Benevolent organization WRT the Garner murder in NY.

So one can love unions and wish the world were unionized and yet say the police unions, in some of these cases, are part of the problem, maybe even the worst part of the problem.

supporting each and every thing that every union does. But the fact is that those with an anti-union agenda are seizing upon the conduct of police unions to try to disparage the union movement in general.

But that doesn't change the two salient facts:
-the NY police union is a bad actor and part of the problem
-Unions are a Good Thing for Society.

I have no problems regarding both those statements as true at the same time.

If you didn't know that before, just research some of the vitriol coming from the union rep in New York as he just about declared war on the citizens of the city.

No, police unions are a different animal.

The police are the enforcers of the Capitalist ruling class and so the police union is an enemy of the working class and so must be crushed.

societies. Not all police work for the ruling class. And I know of at least one police union that is affiliated with the AFL-CIO so they can be bona fide unions.

problem with unions.

No matter what or who you support.

Because it's organized crime, at that point.

do with unions? Do you also condemn teacher unions when they fight for bad teachers?

I am REALLY done with you. Good-bye.

Where they think they have a right to shoot anyone that does not obey their commands.

. . .not one court action regarding the "can't video the police" laws have upheld the statutes. I think those in favor of "video immunity" for the police are Oh-fer on those court cases.

"The right to bear lens shall not be infringed."

In a well regulated civilian militia, not necessary, it is a personal freedom that needs no caveats,

When the POV being pushed was that black men were scary, bad, dangerous criminals was substituted with cops are scary, bad, and yes, dangerous criminals (with video proof) the lie was exposed. Not all black men are the same. Not all cops are the same.

Because it is the last remaining medium that tells the truth. It's also the most powerful.

It tells establishment lies too, but they are easy to dismiss and ridicule. The establishment hates that too.

we have a right to observe our gov at work, that includes the police who the state gov is in charge of.

dropped dramatically. if they were out there, there should have been video everywhere.
now we know what is REALLY out there.

cuz technology. yeah!

meh, these humans are nuts! Let's move on to a less violent planet.

could be it. i couldnt blame them.

They also cannot stand the fact that we cannot be stopped from talking about it.

look at the abused and there is one factor that brings it together.

Nobody ever heard of Ferguson, MO, until this year. Now the whole world knows what that neighborhood has known all along.

It's no longer a secret

when all cops take an oath to report wrong doing by any other police officer and start living by that rule. Any cop who doesn't is a bad cop.

Something like the honor code at the military academies.

And since police forces are becoming so militarized, it's worth a try . . .

Nah! they would never go for it because it would break down their beloved "blue wall" that the rogue cops hide behind.

The US is awash in guns legal and legal due to the NRA et al ending up killing many in black community.

is crumbling around them.
Even though they still get together make up a story, and repeat it to grand juries, it is getting out that they lie under oath, and their testimonies are false.
It's only a matter of time before they take it too far, and are hauled by their own petard.

and the politicians are not far behind.

Another thing, they hate to be identified with the Klan, but what else can I call them. If you are doing the right thing...don't keep your mouth closed when you see sheit happening.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely and police are the single most corrupt institution in the status quo. There is no such thing as a "good" policeman or woman, they are indoctrinated into their world from the first day of the academy and told how much they will not be a part of their communities, but above them. The police are generally untouchable by the legal system they are a part of and consider themselves above the law. I have been involved in community efforts to "build bridges," with police and youth, with police and communities of color etc... which have all foundered on the principle that the police are "authority," and to be unquestioned in that role. The people are the ultimate authority in a democracy, not their servants, and police are supposed to be the peoples' servants, living and working in service to peace and justice not violence and death. When the servants become the masters and enforce their mastery by violence then there is no peace or justice, only force and fear. The police are reaping the whirlwind of the wind of violence and injustice they have stirred up for decades.

Our society has become so sick that it is impossible to dig out the cancer of violence from the body politic, it is time to acknowledge that America is violence incarnate, not only domestically but worldwide. It is time to acknowledge that we are the problem, that our society is predicated on violence, that we worship at an altar of self destruction and that our god of violence is answering every prayer for death with a human sacrifice every day.

Who has the absolute power to take your life away without question if you do not do what he demands immediately?

Hell, they will take your life if you do what they say! Like the incident filmed by the cops dashboard cam when the told the black man to show him his license.

As the man reached into his car to get his wallet the freakin cop drilled him four times with his gun! And he was obeying Mr Judge, Jury, and Executioner!!

I agree with you!

Holy Harry Hanukkah!!
I can't believe it!

Here's the unvarnished truth -- a lot of those white cops want to use all of that military gear that the federal government gave to them.
The feds just gave it to them a few years ago!
That was Ashcroft's idea when he was the Attorney General.
Remember back when he went on his American tour talking to all of the police departments in secret, holding private group sessions with them behind doors, where reporters were barred from entering?

So now, big surprise, a lot of those racist neo-Nazi cops want to use that gear.
They want to start playing 'Army', like they are big, bad, and bold soldiers of fortune.
They want to start racking up their body counts.

The only difference is . . the people they want to kill are non-white Americans, ones who aren't armed to the teeth like most of the white supremacist groups are!!!!!

Racist white Republicans know that they are not going to make up the majority of the population in this country for very much longer.
In just a few years white people will make up less than 50% of the total U.S. population.
So, they want to use much greater levels of fear and intimidation NOW, in order to try and prevent the non-white American population from turning to violence later, when they become the majority in this country.

Orwell could never have gotten a book about the white supremacist nation that used racist policies to rule America published in his day.
But, it has been a situation of "1984" in this country for over 30 years now, in fact nearly 60 years, ever since Eisenhower became President, in my opinion.

Nevertheless, when non-white Americans become the majority, that will be when they will become the rulers of this country.
They will get more of them elected to the House of Representatives than white people.
They will get more of them elected to the Senate than white people.
And they will gather themselves together to overpower the white people who are in Congress.
And then, they will be the ones who will start passing all of the laws that are written in this country!
And all of those laws will be upheld by a Supreme Court that has a majority of non-white Americans on it!

And that is what has all of the white, racist Republicans scared shitless!!!

*mike drop*

"An officer helping people and not abusing them should not be a news story. Not more than a fireman helping people should be a news story. Or a ER doctor. Or a medic. That is their job!"

This.

Way to go, Logical! You nailed it.

And a copy of the ACLU's "Bill of Rights" handy.

And get bad press

complaining to various folks that the cops I had encounters with were lying. Those complaints almost always fell on deaf ears. I suspect a lot of other folks had similar experiences.

At least the video cameras are providing evidence to other citizens that something is wrong, even if the authorities are unwilling to admit it as yet.

The problem is that Jurys tend to 100% believe them.

If I was on a jury, I would be a lot more skeptical than the average juror.

You'll be the first one the prosecutors strike out, should you ever admit as much during voir dire.

They would end up criminals in many cases, if they didn't become cops.

Too many cops see themselves like a glorified street gang---in BLUE.


This is a disease.




America's tormented Public School Teachers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cops






As true as 2+2=4