Does integrating elements of historically black culture into the mainstream (whatever that might be) aggravate or mitigate the unfairness?

I'd just say 'tread lightly' and don't make it a minstrel show.

That's a statement I can wholeheartedly support.

The world being such as it is there will always be those who are cruel and part of the expression of the cruelty will be mocking people for anyone of any number of superficial identifiers: skin color, gender, sexual identity, religious faith, etc. Such people can never be removed from our community, they are a burden to be endured.

I believe the greatest counter to these benighted souls is for the rest of us to simply be who we are. We won't convert the hateful but the delight and wonder of who we are will shine bright enough to overcome the poison they might otherwise spread to others.

And it's better if we just go on about our own lives rather than giving the haters the power they cannot possess on their own.

Life is better for us that way.

But how to know if something is someone's sincere effort at art, is it respectful? Does ti bring a wider appreciation to a broader audience?

That's what I want to see happen.

Then there are things such as Mel Brooks' film Blazing Saddles. I wonder if such a film could be made in this day and age even though the entire point was to give racism the skewering it so richly deserves.

I think the pornography standard may be in play here: We'll know it when we see it.

I can usually tell flattery and sincerity from greedy opportunism.

I think I can say, without fear of embarrassment, that the last thing I will ever be accused of is realigning my beliefs simply to gain approval.

Thank-you for the conversation.

Of comedies! Blazing Saddles! Up there with original - The Producers.

And "Half Baked".

I don't think Blazing Saddles could be made today.

And - All In The Family and Sanford and Son would never get it time now.

and saw suburban white kids with saggy shorts and backwards ball caps with boom boxes and trying to keep up with NYC rappers, I had to giggle a bit.

However, if they go on to write it and manage to write some good stuff, hooray for them.

Kids will try to imitate cultures they're not part of and most of the time, it looks like parody and we get to laugh at them. A few of them might have the talent and put in the time to do a creditable job in that cultural art form and that's a good thing.

I remember the resistance toward using black dancers in ballet. Now most US companies have a few black faces among the sea of white, at least if they go for the best dancers instead of merely the whitest, and nobody considers it a parody of "white culture." Likewise, a few white dancers have gone on to do decent break dancing.

Art has always been very fluid, inspiration being found across many cultures. Culture, itself, isn't that immutable, as the American experiment has found across both North and South America.

I'd have to say it's not a question of treading lightly as it is of treading competently.

Art is to be shared, that is true.

I wonder how many people have Kokopeli artwork, how many fully understand its context and if those identifying with the cultures from which it was appropriated are unhappy about it?

HAHAHAHA!

We're done here.

Black men who kill dogs go to prison for years.

There's a problem, somewhere.

Lied us into a war. He should be in chains with the rest of the Bushies.

asking me 'who does it hurt?' in response to a post I'd made about cultural appropriation, in which I had just specifically noted that it was problematic for those who were the target of cultural appropriation.

Who does it hurt? Real people. People who deserve the same respect as anyone else, people we've (we, the dominant culture members) been, as you put it earlier, treating like dirt for centuries. If we can't even stop disrespecting them and ignoring their pain, how will we ever advance to treating them the same as we do ourselves.

Many believe we are exceptional in all ways and find it difficult to reconcile how awesome we think we are, with what we did to people to get to this point.

and as a nation we should be ashamed of ourselves. Black and Native Americans have been stepping stools for America to succeed, yet sadly few turned around to give you a hand up.

You have been cheated, lied to, beaten and murdered. Yes, we should be ashamed.

Thank you for the Op, bravenak.

PS I just followed your link, I have to go back there and read more.

Lol!! I posted that blog for DU in a way... Gotta keep track of this stuff somehow.
Maybe the crazy questions can be answered there and we can have real conversations here. That would be nice.

I will follow them both, thanks.

Good luck~

I better make sure to keep it updated.
It gives me stuff to do while I study my various interests.

As to your point of dress and appearance in a job interview ?

That goes for anyone , White , Black etc...

The point is that it goes for everybody because the majority says so.
Do you know how much work goes into getting an afro turned into silky locks?
For me, 2 hours and I cannot get it wet.
My sister? 5 fucking hours!! Her hair is down to her butt.
For people who do NOT have naturally long hair like ourselves? 8 hours and 500 - 2000 dollars for a weave. I used to lay tracks for people, glue or sewn. The hair is over 100 dollars per bag and it takes multiple bags of hair. Then you have to braid synthetic hair in cornrows in a pattern so that the hair falls properly, leaving out enough hair in the front to cover the tracks. Then you sew or glue them in carefully. How is that the same for everybody?!?! Not the same for us. If the majority had to do all that to get a job, they'd change the rules.

against fat people, really skinny people , ugly people , older people , long haired men ,clothing style even peoples names.

In some cases women who are too pretty even.

An interviewer very rarely picks the best person for the job.
They have their own conceived prejudice when you make that first impression .

I do understand what you are saying about the hair thing though but I believe that's done
by the individual more so because of current trends in fashion.

That's the style now that they see movie stars , singers , celebrities wearing

If all Black female celebrities went back to the natural look then you would see the style through out the country change.

I have. I refuse to burn my hair everyday anymore.

The one thing about fashion and styles is old style at some point becomes the new style once again.

It always does , whether it's hair styles, home styles , cars , clothes , motorcycles ,you name it

were also revoked on that hidden Op in your group, bravenak. I say good riddance, I alerted but it was already hidden.

After what he said to BainsBane, I'd like to wring his neck. I'm seriously pissed. I might just post that crap on my blog and destroy it for the pleasure of busting something up. Thank you for alerting. I was so mad, I forgot to ban him. He was so quick!!! Busy trolling days lately.

Actually I am glad it was hidden and not just a ban that would have left the what they said there. With the hide people can read it if they wish, yet it won't punch you in the face when you click the link. That was ugly and they certainly were not talking for me as a white person.

bravenak~

Black men. Disgusting.
I know that person was off his rocker. I had already copied it because I wanted to save it for future reference. But I am glad it and he are both gone.

stepped up. Hope they get time and a half for working over the holidays.

That's what she told bravenak to do.

Voted for #1, of course.

Also served on jury for that 1Post Wonder.

That post was my "WTF?" winner for the entire month.

So gross. That might be the grand prize winner of omfg.

Some people need to be alone with no internet connection.

then crazy sure, but if he is crazy then we have about 50 MILLION crazy white people in America, aka teaparty and republican party.

I am certain they would ALL agree with every word of that racist, ignorant, punk ass post...

And I say punk ass because we have to start treating these assholes with great disdain, and in real life too, not just on the internet.

I have ended friendships over racism, and I will do it every time it is called for.

Enough

is

Enough

And let me repeat that racism in American is EXCLUSIVELY a white problem...

We will overcome this Randy. Our grandchildren will live better if we do the hard work now. I hope.

The human race started out Black...

remind the assholes of that

Easier to deal with the ozone layer disintegrating.

an upset in what would have likely occurred at another point in time..their own immigration to
America, in their own time. We have no way to reset that period in history...reparations are unacceptable
to many, unfortunately. Reparations would not remove the racism but it would be an official
record of attempting to right a wrong which is a powerful statement for the people of this nation.

The genocide advanced upon Native Americans on their own land due to their lack
of military power created a hole that remains open today. The idea that people stolen for
another mans benefit..slaves, and another populace killed and displaced for their land
has had continual negative consequences..we treat minorities terribly today because we do
not completely recognize and accept the responsibilities of our past. Not to the degree that
we should..imo.

Sadly, there are Americans who believe we're done with racism as an issue, since we elected a black man to be
POTUS. It is also shameful that no Native American is expected to run for POTUS and win.

Good poll question, glad you posted it.

I agree.

Last edited Tue Dec 30, 2014, 11:15 AM - Edit history (1)

heirs) of Manzanar. Which is as it should be. But as bad a stain as Manzanar is upon our national honor, it pales before the great crimes of land and labor theft for which a more radical form of reparations are due. And yet 3 DUers as of this writing posit that blacks (and, one presumes, Native Amiericans) are 'living in the past.' I swear, you cannot make this shit up!

Most the threads I've seen have dealt with pop-culture (hip-hop, hair style)... So I don't know how or what you include in 'culture'

I'm closer to a Doo Wop guy than a hip-hop guy

Otherwise the op will be trolled to no end. We are dealing with some issues here right now. I can pm you a message and explain why today is not a good day? If you want.

Of the thread op that was deleted.

Sending now...

Older DUers see that. Gaaaah - I'm glad heaven is taking a few days off and didn't see that.

From the cultural appropriation one.

138. "Being left out all the time leads you to make your own culture."

Specifically, what "culture" have you and others created? Would hip-hop/ghetto rap be part of that creation? Is this "culture" helping or hurting blacks, black males in particular? For example, if two young men show up for an interview, one dressed professionally and the other dressed with his pants hanging below his ass crack, who will get hired?

I've worked in DC and surrounding areas for decades and see successful blacks every day. PG County, Maryland is nearly 65% black, and according to Wikipedia, "the 70th most affluent county in the United States by median income for families and the most affluent county in the United States with an African-American majority." What are they doing right?

I work in the IT industry -- lots of Indians (Hindu, Muslim and Sikh on my team) -- and have to say they seem to have assimilated beautifully, without losing their "culture." What are they doing right?

A small but vocal minority (no pun intended) on DU likes to chalk up black woes to racist whities, but at what point are *some* blacks culpable for their failures?

What does the OP consider the "culture" being created by blacks? The OP dodged my question, and referred me to what I am sure is yet another goofy blog on the internet. There's a never-ending supply of them...

You're on the internet on a site with bunch of people who blog.

Who knew?!

I get enough of said posters on DU; I'd rather sit home sticking pins in my eyes than read some of their blogs.

I just started it like, 2 days ago so... I won't try to force it on you. Promise.

If your contribution to this web site goes unnoticed or unappreciated by others, you have simply GOT to understand that the ones that are unappreciative, the ones that malign your presence here and view you as a "trouble maker" are the ones lacking in humor, wit and humanity. Because there is simply no denying you've got all three.

But I never had to practice to be a good dancer. Came naturally.

I'm at the point in my life where I am just about done caring about what people who are ignorant think. It feels good to let them go.

I practiced dancing so hard... My sister used to tell me to relax and stop bouncing around like that, why you so stiff?? LOL!! I ended up working in a dance club. We try hard at everything we do. Have to.

& my give a damn button broke on Christmas when I wandered into a thread I probably would have been better off staying the hell out of. But hell be damned if I was going to let it slide, I said what I had to say after a long heated discussion, got alerted on, & to my surprise the jury came out on my side.

Here is what I posted

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6004710

I have to actually get nasty with her ass to prevent an eruption! She does that shit every fucking time. I got one hid once. It was bad too. She calls me her stalker! Wtf? $&@@& please!

I've decided I'm not holding back anymore...People need to understand this country isn't a "white" country & I'll be damned if me or my children are going to be treated like we owe somebody something.

Did you see it? It was one of the nastiest ops ever. Nasty as hell. It's in a reply to Randys. Posting ops in AA now? Shit.
I refuse to be uncomfortable alone. No, we don't owe nobody shit. Especially not silence in the face of rampant racism.

Do you mean the Constitution? The government? Or do you mean subgroups of citizens? Or?

That is not the point of this exercise.

I still have my same Hennessy from Christmas. I will be drunk tonight!!

That was actually said in 2013...

In America...

By a human being...

And I've see that Ellen Challenge and it's hysterical!

But hopefully one day soon it will. Can't stop trying to get there.

One day.

I try to look at this issue as objectively as I can. That is sort of hard because I'm a rural white guy from Appalachian part of Ohio.

From any objective standard it is clear that black people and other racial minorities have the deck stacked against them. As if this was not bad enough, the law enforcement community doesn't play fair with minorities, often even targeting them for a special brand of justice.

It makes many of us paranoid.

Time for protest, again.



I am Tamir Rice
I am Eric Garner
I am Michael Brown
I am Jordan Davis
I am Trayvon Martin

What lives in the dumpsters, under dark bridges, rotten logs and swamp rocks.

Edit to add: Seems only the rich and privileged get treated fairly these days, at the expense of everyone else. They leave us divided, conquered and fighting over our differences. Mission Accomplished.

very telling myself.

I won't forget....I hope no one else does either. It is way past time to tell some to go jump off a cliff and mean it.

And BTW, I haven't posted anything in particular on any of these appropriation/assimilation threads but have been reading them and learning. Thanks for the eloquent, nuanced arguments and perspectives you just shared here.

(And never doubt that your calm and persistent messaging can pay off in educating others.)

I can be an asshole elsewhere.
Click the link 'ask bravenak black' to see what we just dealt with in the AA forum a little while ago. You'll be amazed.

Meaning, we NEVER get a fair shake.

Joined today and is ordering pizza from Dominos for dinner tonight!

fairly shitty, that is. Seems to be getting worse instead of better as time goes by.

While not literally possible, it is possible to get a good sense of what it is like if you took more of an interest in black friends, co-workers etc. It would be truly eye opening! I am white, grew up and live here in S.E. Texas. I went to an all black Middle School and experienced racism from the other end. I was treated poorly to say the least, just due to the color of my skin. Our school was falling apart, books and equipment were hand-me-downs from the mostly white Middle School in the same District, and the teachers had given up, or at least didn't want to be there. No way was public education the same for whites and blacks.
My second wife is black and from long talks with her parents and her very sweet 93 year old "Auntee" I heard first hand accounts of Jim Crow that made me ashamed for my race. I am amazed that her family has accepted me with such open arms after what they have been through. I can't say that I could have let it go so completely. While many things are much better than they were, progress has seemed to have slowed dramatically.
Being white, I also hear pretty regularly how tired Whites are of hearing the cry of "racism" at every turn. The problem is, the people doing the complaining either have no clue, or are the ones perpetuating the problem. People assume that Blacks have the same opportunity as Whites, they just squander it. While there are some cultural issues that hold Blacks back, they are ones of institutionalized poverty, not of any inferiority to any other race. If you are "tired of hearing about race" then finally help to do something about it, or at least have a better understanding of the dynamics.

Be the change you want. Don't want to hear it? Change it!

Ursula Burns, CEO of Xerox.


Debra Lee, CEO of BET


Eleanor Holmes Norton


La June Montgomery Tabron, President and CEO of W.K. Kellogg Foundation


Gwen Ifill, Lead Anchor and Political Analyst, PBS


Donna Brazile, Political Strategist (short hair and... gray!)


These women seem to know what they're doing. Exceptionally well.

If you and others wish to buck "assimilating to the dominant culture," what are your plans for survival? What does the future hold for non-assimilating African-Americans?

Too bad so many Americans take their cues from fucking pop stars, rather than from women like those above.

you are so shallow.

Glad I'm not you...your karma is really going to suck as in big time.

black women and *I'm* shallow? I condemn idiot pop stars and the insane focus on appearance and *I'm* shallow?

Ooookay, Caretha, okay...

Not everybody can be those women. My mom wears her hair like Ursula Burns right there at the top. She's strong. I no longer care about hair like pop stars, but I'm lucky and can grow sheets of hair. Not everybody is lucky or strong.

in which you think "long, straight, hair" is a basic condition of employment. It's not. I work in the DC area and see hair, hair everywhere hair, including afros.

Things have changed.

What *is* the change?

Natural was in when they were young and they have adapted that style. Then came Jheri curls and S-curls, better No Lye Relaxers, more trade brought better weaves in.
Trying to fit in is hard when the standard of that All American girl is not you. Hair blowing in the wind and all that. Hollywood beauty standards inform the public of what is in. And long ass itchy hair is in for young women. So they buy it.

listening to Hollywood and being obsessed with what's "in." Isn't long, stick-straight hair on its way out? Good. It's not flattering on many -- black or white -- and they all look like clones.

Esperanza hair. Halle hair. Whoopie hair. Lupita hair. All very different looks, and not really "blowing in the wind," unlike Beyoncé's blonde extensions.

I'm just baffled as to why so many are influenced by celebrity. Like those obsessed with getting glasses just like Sarah Palin's, or Jennifer Aniston's latest 'do. I wear makeup, contacts, and style my hair, but I'm not trying to emulate Hollywood. And I didn't when I was younger.

Jesus, we women put waaaaay too much pressure on ourselves.

Especially with our hair. Watch good hair. It's a documentary about black hair. It will help you understand why we are so sensitive about it.

I see black women with different hairstyles every couple of days, and they cost a pretty penny. I hear the discussions at work.

I'll add the documentary to my Netflix queue.

Chris Rock produced it. I've watched it like 50 times.

Joke! It was a joke!

I get it. I'm not that sensitive about it. I have too much hair.

she can wear her hair as she damn well pleases How do you wear your hair? Do you have any fine tips for how to protest too?

Who do you think is dictating how you should speak? Certainly not me. Speak away. But I still won't read yet *another* blog.

You missed that day. Sorry.
I was joking. You don't have to read it.