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TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 06:16 PM Dec 2014

The NYPD's "Pretorian Guard" Tipping Point?

Is this the NYPD's "Pretorian Guard Moment?"

Last week the NYPD turned their backs on the Mayor and Police Commissioner in a flagrant gesture of contempt. This week we find out that they're engaged in an unofficial 'work stoppage,' where they've apparently decided to stop giving out traffic tickets, and arresting people for minor crimes until they get what they want. This is partly about their public position that they're not getting enough 'respect' and 'support' from De Blasio, but it's also about the police union contracts that are currently under negotiation. De Blasio is now headed for an emergency meeting with the police unions.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/

Could this set an unfortunate precedent? Could this be the NYPD's "Pretorian Guard Moment?"

Perhaps a history lesson is in order. Remember this guy? This is the Roman Emperor Claudius, hiding behind a curtain in 41 A.D.. The Emperor Caligula had just been assassinated, and the Roman Senate had decided they didn't want anymore emperors, and wanted to return to a republic. But the pretorian guardsmen, who had a nice job guarding the Emperor decided they didn't want to be unemployed. So, they went and found Caligula's uncle Claudius, grabbed him out from behind a curtain where he'd been hiding, shoved him in front of the Senate and said "Here's your new Emperor, like it or not."

That was the moment Rome officially became a police state, and from then on, nobody could become emperor without first getting the unofficial approval of the Pretorian Guards. Usually by offering them a large bribe, which would be payable when the candidate ascended the throne. From that moment on, the Pretorian Guard became a POLITICAL entity that had to be appeased by any politician who wanted to become Emperor.

Is this where New York is headed? Anybody who wants to be, or STAY Mayor of New York will have to appease the NYPD, or they'll just decide to stop enforcing the law? Welcome to Rome, folks.


26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The NYPD's "Pretorian Guard" Tipping Point? (Original Post) TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 OP
Great Questions. ** K&R ** Awesome post. Thank you. nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #1
Thank you! nt TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #5
"I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world" PoliticAverse Dec 2014 #2
Yep. I looked it up once, and saw that the NYPD is bigger than the total, combined armed forces of TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #6
nice post. Calista241 Dec 2014 #3
Thanks! nt TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #7
We could say the same about NSA, CIA etc. AngryAmish Dec 2014 #4
The CIA came pretty close to that when they accessed the Senate's COMPUTERS, illegally, and TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #10
Here's now BBC did the Claudius/Pretorian Guard coup. It starts at about 47:00 TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #8
ANd yes, that's Bernard Hill from Lord of The Rings playing Gratus. nt TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #9
And Patrick Stewart was in this series (not sure about this episode) WITH HAIR! randome Dec 2014 #13
YES, and he played Sejanus, the LEADER of the Pretorian Guards. TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #17
If they won't do the job, find people who will. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #11
If I were de Blasio, I'd give FDNY firefighters and sanitary engineers some great contracts, with TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #19
If the NY police union is coordinating breaking the law lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #12
Good point. The DoJ should at least investigate to determine if there is collusion between the NYPD TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #18
If the DOJ had ever heard of RICO - truedelphi Dec 2014 #24
Makes ya wonder what kind of underhanded dealing Bloomberg gave them. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #14
Bloomberg, like all previous Mayors, let them do whatever they want, without being accountable for TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #22
I imagine Wall Street padded a few pockets too. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #23
Good post. And don't forget the connection found between the police force's truedelphi Dec 2014 #25
The scary thought; is Giuliani their go to guy? TRoN33 Dec 2014 #15
It appears that way, doesn't it? nt TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #20
The request for two police cars to answer to every call is reasonable FOR CERTAIN LEVELS JDPriestly Dec 2014 #16
As I said to another commenter, what de Blasio should do now is give the FDNY a great contract that TrollBuster9090 Dec 2014 #21
Great comment. Post it as an OP and send me a private message and I will recommend it and JDPriestly Dec 2014 #26

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
10. The CIA came pretty close to that when they accessed the Senate's COMPUTERS, illegally, and
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 07:50 PM
Dec 2014

deleted information. There might have been plenty of CIA political coups going on behind the scenes that we never knew about, but THAT CIA coup happened in broad daylight. And the fact that Obama won't do anything about it is the worst part of the coup. It means they can get away with this again, in future.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
13. And Patrick Stewart was in this series (not sure about this episode) WITH HAIR!
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 07:58 PM
Dec 2014

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
17. YES, and he played Sejanus, the LEADER of the Pretorian Guards.
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 09:52 PM
Dec 2014

Although, it was before the Claudius thing happened. Also, it was a rug he was wearing, but still, it was a pretty juicy role for him! Especially when he got to do all those purvy scenes with Patricia Quinn (from the Rocky Horror Picture Show). Stewart also got a pretty juicy role from BBC when he played LENIN in 'Fall of Eagles.' All they had to do was stick a goatie on him, and you couldn't tell him from the real Lenin.

Anyway, in I Claudius, Stewart got some of the best lines thrown at him, WHICH ARE STILL TRUE.

These are my favorites:

Gallus: "I'm not signing any confession for you to produce after I'm dead. Either put me on trial or murder me and take the consequences."

Sejanus: "I've no need of a trial to prove your guilt."

Gallus: "A song sung by every small town corrupt policeman, which is what you are and what you should have stayed."

Gallus: "I've watched your career with fascination, Sejanus, it's been a revelation to me. I never before realized how a small mind, allied with unlimited ambition and without scruple could destroy an entire nation full of clever men."


True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
11. If they won't do the job, find people who will.
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 07:52 PM
Dec 2014

They have gone beyond the bounds of legitimate union behavior, and instead of representing the interests of their officers, they are seeking to build the political power of their institution against democratically elected authority. Since they wield force, doing so borders on fascism. If they take this any further, crush them. Force officers to choose between doing their jobs and being part of a gang of thugs, and then throw the thugs the hell out.

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
19. If I were de Blasio, I'd give FDNY firefighters and sanitary engineers some great contracts, with
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 10:13 PM
Dec 2014

with increased salaries and benefits, and increased job security, as a tradeoff for them agreeing to greater oversight. (Civilian oversight committees, with big staff etc.) That's what liberals are supposed to do. A) greater respect for workers, combined with B) greater accountability and transparency to the public.

So, if I were de Blasio, I'd make good deals like that with the FDNY and sanitation workers etc.; and then slow roll the contract negotiations with the NYPD as long as they're engaging in THIS nonsense. He can't afford to yield to this kind of blackmail, it sets a precedent that anybody who wants to be or stay Mayor of New York has to appease the NYPD. Nobody wants that except the NYPD.

One think the NYPD should be reminded of is that de Blasio, like other liberal politicians, is pro-union. And if you undermine him politically, you'll end up getting a conservative Mayor who is ANTI-union. Those anti-union conservative politicians may pay homage to the NYPD unions for the purpose of driving a wedge between them and the other public sector unions; but once all those other unions have been broken, they WILL come after the NYPD unions.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
12. If the NY police union is coordinating breaking the law
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 07:56 PM
Dec 2014

It is a violation of the RICO act, and a federal crime.

The justice department needs to step in.

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
18. Good point. The DoJ should at least investigate to determine if there is collusion between the NYPD
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 10:06 PM
Dec 2014

union reps and GOP political operatives. They could also subpoena email accounts to see if union leaders told their members to do this. It didn't just happen spontaneously, as they're suggesting. A 5% drop in traffic tickets and minor arrests could be explained by police officers being 'cautious.' But a 60% drop in minor arrests, and a 94% drop in traffic tickets cannot be explained that way. This is being coordinated.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
24. If the DOJ had ever heard of RICO -
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 11:37 PM
Dec 2014

We would never have had the transfer of wealth from Main Street to the One Percent, with Obama/Geithner/Bernanke and Holder's full approval.

Largest ransfer of wealth in history, at least going as far back as what the nobility in France did to the average worker in late eighteenth century. (And we remember how that ended.)

Oh and that transfer of wealth is still on going.

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
22. Bloomberg, like all previous Mayors, let them do whatever they want, without being accountable for
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 10:26 PM
Dec 2014

bad behavior. That's usually enough. Think of it this way, the NYPD that responded to Occupy Wallstreet was basically the Bloomberg NYPD. 'nuff said.


truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
25. Good post. And don't forget the connection found between the police force's
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 11:41 PM
Dec 2014

Violence and how Homeland Security helped them realize that the protesters were nothing more than domestic terrorists!

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
16. The request for two police cars to answer to every call is reasonable FOR CERTAIN LEVELS
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 08:52 PM
Dec 2014

OF CALLS.

On the other hand, if the officers don't want to work, new officers should be hired and eventually those who do not work will be fired for insubordination.

TrollBuster9090

(5,954 posts)
21. As I said to another commenter, what de Blasio should do now is give the FDNY a great contract that
Tue Dec 30, 2014, 10:21 PM
Dec 2014

includes pay raises, more benefits, and (most importantly) more job security. And give them this in exchange for greater oversight. (Firefighters having to pass competency exams and fitness tests; and having more civilian oversight committees to investigate corruption and incompetence...not that there's much of that in the FDNY.) But this is what a liberal politician should do. Bring in A) Greater job security for public sector unions, in exchange for B) greater accountability and transparency. It's a fair trade off.

If de Blasio does THIS for the FDNY as a reward for remaining politically neutral; and simultaneously plays hardball with the NYPD unions, given that they're actively trying to undermine him and get rid of him, they'll eventually get the message. This can't be allowed to stand as a precedent, no matter WHO is Mayor. The idea that the NYPD will get away with taking down any Mayor they don't like. That would be a de facto police state.

And, at the same time, the NYPD unions should realize that liberal politicians are pro-union. If you undermine them you'll end up getting conservative, anti-union Mayors who only pay homage to the NYPD in order to drive a wedge between them and other public sector unions. Once they've broken the other unions, they'll come after the NYPD union, too.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
26. Great comment. Post it as an OP and send me a private message and I will recommend it and
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 02:23 AM
Dec 2014

K&R it. Great ideas in my opinino.

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