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DFW

(54,403 posts)
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:59 AM Jan 2015

Your town votes to ban fracking? Watch the oil companies pay to overturn you

The NYT had one VERY scary article today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/us/heavyweight-response-to-local-fracking-bans.html?emc=edit_th_20150104&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=34053085

Longmont, which sits near the juncture of rolling plains and jagged mountains, has spent about $136,000 fighting — unsuccessfully so far — to defend a 2012 measure that outlawed fracking. In July, a district court judge tossed out the ban, and the city is appealing.

A judge also overturned a fracking ban last year in Fort Collins, Colo., and denied pleas from the city to keep the ban in place while local officials went to court to defend a five-year fracking moratorium. In Broadview Heights, Ohio, energy companies are suing the town — and residents are suing the energy companies in return — over a bill of rights that outlawed fracking and the disposal of its byproducts.

In Denton, Tex., one day after voters passed the state’s first ban on fracking in November, the measure was met with lawsuits from the Texas General Land Office and the Texas Oil and Gas Association. An official on the commission that regulates oil and gas in Texas told The Dallas Morning News that she would still issue permits to companies hoping to drill in Denton, even while the ban remained on the books.

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Your town votes to ban fracking? Watch the oil companies pay to overturn you (Original Post) DFW Jan 2015 OP
Heh, wait until the TPP and other "agreements" are passed - any corporation can djean111 Jan 2015 #1
No, any corporstion can not overturn any regulation under TPP. And the corporations, in these Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #2
You obviously don't know about investor-state in FTAs~ RiverLover Jan 2015 #5
Why can we not trust the courts of the states, including America, to be fair and equitable? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #20
FYI, NAFTA investor-state is being used to impose 'eminent domain' to steal American property. RiverLover Jan 2015 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author PowerToThePeople Jan 2015 #6
Hard left socialist LondonReign2 Jan 2015 #7
Exactly my thought.. pangaia Jan 2015 #21
+1000. To many, the goal posts for the Democratic party are further right than Reagan these days. adirondacker Jan 2015 #26
Your style is old here and sucks. Bullying people upaloopa Jan 2015 #17
I know that area very well JonLP24 Jan 2015 #3
I guess even Republicans want drinking water that does not burst into flame DFW Jan 2015 #15
An Ohio town is having to sue the State of Ohio, Gov Kasich & 2 oil companies RiverLover Jan 2015 #4
That next-to-last photo is scary DFW Jan 2015 #8
Lovely sight. SammyWinstonJack Jan 2015 #10
if ohio citizens and environmentalists want to get noticed- protest at the rw radio certainot Jan 2015 #13
watch rachel maddow on msnbc barbtries Jan 2015 #19
That ad is desperately misleading. madamesilverspurs Jan 2015 #29
I stopped going to msnbc.com regularly because of that ad. RiverLover Jan 2015 #33
Between Big Oil and Nestles we are going to lose our water. marble falls Jan 2015 #9
And the curtain is pulled away a little farther. Scuba Jan 2015 #11
fracking's best friend in any situation where a community is fighting certainot Jan 2015 #12
But fracking is safe! smiley Jan 2015 #14
This is where the rubber meets the road.. mountain grammy Jan 2015 #16
Where in the hell do these people get off voting on that? ybbor Jan 2015 #18
Henrik Ibsen wrote a savage play about this about 100 years ago DFW Jan 2015 #23
I believe he wrote it as an exercise of anger salin Jan 2015 #24
You are mostly correct about Ibsen's anger DFW Jan 2015 #25
It's available as a free download and HIGHLY recommended reading for many on DU.... adirondacker Jan 2015 #31
lying by ommision fracking ad in colorado isitreal Jan 2015 #27
"We can out-lawyer you." madamesilverspurs Jan 2015 #28
This isn't what we were told democracy was all about in school. The vote was supposed to matter. RiverLover Jan 2015 #30
I have lived in Colorado locks Jan 2015 #32
.... Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #34
Democracy? What democracy? n/t gollygee Jan 2015 #35
Monsanto et al did the same thing on Kauai w/ GMOs KauaiK Jan 2015 #36
Monsanto is evil incarnate DFW Jan 2015 #37
The Kauai GMO law did not prohibit growing KauaiK Jan 2015 #39
Where is the 'Don't Tread On Me' crowd hiding out at now? Did they slither off into the woodpile? freshwest Jan 2015 #38
When it comes to fracking DFW Jan 2015 #40
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
1. Heh, wait until the TPP and other "agreements" are passed - any corporation can
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:08 AM
Jan 2015

overturn any regulation. Or bankrupt the entity that passed the law or regulation. Sweet, huh?

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
2. No, any corporstion can not overturn any regulation under TPP. And the corporations, in these
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:15 AM
Jan 2015

cases, oil and gas mega giants, are doing fine bankrupting the entity that passed the law or regulation without an international trade treaty.

TPP no where around. Surely it is a workers and little folk paradise in America now?

Folks seem not to care to know the facts anymore before joining one armed camp or another with passionate hate for the other armed camp.

There can only be two.

In my armed camp folks realize Bernie Sanders is a hard left socialist. Is America ready for a hard left socialist or will they vote in President Mussolini the Second.....that may be the choice?

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
5. You obviously don't know about investor-state in FTAs~
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:42 AM
Jan 2015

FYI,

Investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) is an instrument of public international law, that grants an investor the right to use dispute settlement proceedings against a foreign government.

...Notably, only foreign investors can sue states under investment treaties, and only states can be held liable to pay damages for breach of the treaty. States have no corresponding right to bring an original claim against a foreign investor. Thus, a decision in favour of the State means that the state has not been ordered to pay compensation, not that it has received any compensation from the investor. A state cannot "win" in ISDS in the manner of a foreign investor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement


Coming to a town near you via TPP?

Check this map to see what corps can sue you, your state or city govt~

. Click here for a full list of companies based in TPP countries that operate in the United States, sorted by congressional district.
= Corporation based in Australia = Corporation based in Vietnam
= Corporation based in Canada = Corporation based in Singapore
= Corporation based in Japan = Corporation based in Mexico
= Corporation based in Malaysia = Corporation based in New Zealand
= Corporation based in Peru
= Corporation based in Brunei
= Corporation based in Chile

Public Citizen, the Sierra Club, Friends of the Earth, and other organizations have called for a different trade agreement model that protects the environment, workers’ rights, and the public interest. This new model necessitates eliminating or dramatically scaling down the “investor-state enforcement” provisions of trade agreements which corporations can use to sue governments. Click here for a report outlining this vision.

http://citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=4083


What does Liz think?
...Warren, Baldwin and Markey are particularly concerned with a process called "investor-state dispute settlement," which grants foreign corporations the political power to challenge the laws and regulations of a government before an international tribunal. This nongovernmental court has the power to levy trade sanctions against offending nations. The investor-state dispute settlement regimen differs from those used in World Trade Organization treaties, which allow only sovereign governments to bring trade challenges.

"We believe that the TPP should not include an investor-state dispute settlement process," the letter reads, warning that doing so "would expose a broad array of critical American financial regulations to challenge by many additional foreign companies."

Investor-state challenges were rare before the new millennium, but have become increasingly popular tools for corporations to use when challenging regulations they object to. Under the North American Free Trade Agreement, for instance, companies including Exxon Mobil, Dow Chemical and Eli Lilly have attempted to overrule Canadian regulations on offshore oil drilling, fracking, pesticides, drug patents and other issues.

Unrest over investor-state powers is not exclusively a progressive phenomenon. Free-trade advocate Daniel J. Ikenson of the Cato Institute has argued against the practice, on the grounds that it gives foreign firms an unfair advantage over domestic companies....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/elizabeth-warren-trade-deal_n_6350312.html




Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
20. Why can we not trust the courts of the states, including America, to be fair and equitable?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:26 AM
Jan 2015

Instead of the state having to enforce a corporate complaint, through an artificial trade tribunal, the corporstions sue directly in the resident state?

Unfairness can be dealt with by sanctions and publicity, etc.

Local self -governance is already long gone in a lot of places in America due to local corporate greed, but that is through political takeover, not corporate civil suits.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
22. FYI, NAFTA investor-state is being used to impose 'eminent domain' to steal American property.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:35 AM
Jan 2015
The NYTimes reports that TransCanada, a Canadian oil company, promises to confiscate private land from South Dakota to the Gulf of Mexico, and has already filed nearly 60 lawsuits against private US citizens who refuse to allow the Keystone XL pipeline on their property, even though the controversial project has yet to receive federal approval.

“Randy Thompson, a cattle buyer in Nebraska, was informed that if he did not grant pipeline access to 80 of the 400 acres left to him by his mother along the Platte River, ‘Keystone will use eminent domain to acquire the easement.’”

In an email, Vince Wade comments:

“One of my frequent preaching topics is why NAFTA is bad for our economy and our nation and how it is a tool of the robber baron globalists who have destroyed the Middle Class of the industrialized world–which is why we have a global recession/depression.

“For those of you who worry about U.S. Sovereignty, let’s think about this: a Canadian company–that is, a foreign company, which is part of NAFTA, is threatening Americans who are refusing to surrender their property to build a pipeline to carry highly toxic tar sands oil from Alberta, Canada to the refineries of Texas...

https://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/1-vs-99-keystone-xl-seizes-private-us-land-for-oil-to-china/


Lets just add 12+ more foreign countries & 54,000 of their companies who can do this. And trusting the international tribunals is like trusting the jury system at DU. To date, I read the tribunals have ruled in favor of the foreign companies 37% of the time. Is that a risk you're comfortable with?

Great info on this can be found:
https://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/1-vs-99-keystone-xl-seizes-private-us-land-for-oil-to-china/

Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #2)

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
17. Your style is old here and sucks. Bullying people
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:51 AM
Jan 2015

and giving no facts or evidence should be banned I think. That style is used by some forums on this board. You should take debate lessons then come back with some actual facts and ideas that you can footnote.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
3. I know that area very well
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:28 AM
Jan 2015

I was born in Fort Collins and have family in Loveland which Longmont is just south of. First of all, I'm surprised city officials even want a fracking ban considering the area is heavily GOP.

DFW

(54,403 posts)
15. I guess even Republicans want drinking water that does not burst into flame
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:22 AM
Jan 2015

...or causes cancer after short periods of contact with it.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
4. An Ohio town is having to sue the State of Ohio, Gov Kasich & 2 oil companies
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:39 AM
Jan 2015
Broadview Heights tries new legal tactic in fight against fracking
12/5/2014

BROADVIEW HEIGHTS: A group of residents filed a class-action lawsuit Thursday against the state of Ohio, Gov. John Kasich and two drilling companies.

It is believed to be the first suit of its kind in Ohio and seeks to protect the rights of self-governance, including the right to ban fracking.

In November 2012, Broadview Heights voters approved a charter amendment for a community bill of rights and banned fracking and the disposal of fracking waste.

In June 2014, Bass Energy and Ohio Valley Energy filed suit against the city to overturn the community bill of rights. The companies said that only the Ohio Department of Natural Resources oversees drilling.


Efforts by residents to intervene were rejected by a Cuyahoga County Common Pleas judge.

In the new suit, the residents contend that the Ohio Oil and Gas Act violates the constitutional right of residents to local self-government. The residents were aided by the Pennsylvania-based Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund.

“This class-action lawsuit is merely the first in Ohio, and expected to be one of many filed by people across the United States whose constitutional rights to govern their own communities are routinely violated by state governments working in concert with the corporations that they ostensibly regulate,” said Thomas Linzey, executive director of the defense fund. “The people of Broadview Heights will not stand idly by as their rights are negotiated away by oil and gas corporations, their state government and their own municipal government.”

http://www.ohio.com/news/local/broadview-heights-tries-new-legal-tactic-in-fight-against-fracking-1.547110


Broadview Heights, Oh~













Can you blame them for not wanting anymore wells??

DFW

(54,403 posts)
8. That next-to-last photo is scary
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:49 AM
Jan 2015

I'd love to force some of the oil execs to drink a cup of that stuff every morning, and THEN tell everyone fracking is safe.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
13. if ohio citizens and environmentalists want to get noticed- protest at the rw radio
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:04 AM
Jan 2015

stations that routinely sell fracking as environmentally safe and great for the economy.

rw radio blowhards regularly attack them as commies and dupes, and will give the industry think tank shills regular friendly space on their talk shows to do the same.

that's what those stations have been doing for years across the country- selling and protecting fracking and any other environmental stupidity that industry wants unregulated.

barbtries

(28,798 posts)
19. watch rachel maddow on msnbc
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:13 AM
Jan 2015

and the commercial they constantly run. "jason's grandfather started this ranch. so we try to protect what's ours. Some people wonder why we let fracking on our land, but we talked to experts, and you know what? It's safe."

every time i watch rachel i am treated to this propaganda. this bullshit.

well, i was - finally put in an ad blocker yesterday so hopefully no more

madamesilverspurs

(15,805 posts)
29. That ad is desperately misleading.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:46 PM
Jan 2015

The woman leads you to believe that their family livelihood depends on the "ranch", and nothing could be farther from the truth. It's a couple of acres, and the "experts" they spoke with are essentially her employers, seeing as how she's a longtime highly paid lobbyist for the industry. Understandable that they buy the ad time on Maddow's show, they need to start "de-convincing" viewers who are starting to understand the realities.

The bottomest bottom line for the oil companies: There's no profit in giving a damn about your fellow human beings.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
12. fracking's best friend in any situation where a community is fighting
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 09:54 AM
Jan 2015

it is republicon radio.

even though it may end up as a judge's ruling, national and local rw radio has been loving fracking and attacking its critics for years. any attempt to limit it will come up against those think tank scripted blowhards and their think tank guests talking about perfectly potable fracking water and all the millions of jobs and economic booming that results from it. the industry's friends in high places wouldn't be so anti public if it wasn't for all that bullshit and the manufactured constituency among the talk radio/teabagger base at their backs.

which environmental groups continue to ignore

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
16. This is where the rubber meets the road..
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jan 2015

Corporations fighting the will of citizens. Is there any doubt who will win in the courts? Will people finally wake up and see what's happening here?
Oh wait, I think Kim Kardashian is pregnant and there's that pretty lady in the commercial telling us how an attack on fracking is an attack on small organic farmers who just need some extra money to send their kids to college. Oh, you mean she's a corporate stooge? but she's so pretty and sincere and grows organic veggies.

Oil and gas is spending millions in Colorado to promote fracking and why? They have all the laws, money and power behind them. They just want to look pretty when they start locking up citizens who interfere with "America's business."

ybbor

(1,554 posts)
18. Where in the hell do these people get off voting on that?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:59 AM
Jan 2015

That is not how democracy works!

You need the deepest pockets and the best interests of those pockets in mind.

And Ohio folks, what's the big deal? The playground looks totally fine. I'm sure that the company folk play there on their breaks all the time. Everything is fine!

Carry on.

DFW

(54,403 posts)
23. Henrik Ibsen wrote a savage play about this about 100 years ago
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 12:20 PM
Jan 2015

"Enemy of the People"

How little has changed--only the cast's names

salin

(48,955 posts)
24. I believe he wrote it as an exercise of anger
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 12:57 PM
Jan 2015

at the hostile reception to an earlier, controversial play (Ghosts).

Ultimately, in the Enemy of the People, it wasn't the corporations winning - it was the fickleness, and easily propagandized public getting whipped up in order to act against their own (health) best interest.

Hmmm. 2014 elections... Faux... You are right - how little has changed.

DFW

(54,403 posts)
25. You are mostly correct about Ibsen's anger
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:11 PM
Jan 2015

But his premise that a majority of people can be fooled into accepting and supporting something that will ultimately damage them was no less valid for all that.

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
31. It's available as a free download and HIGHLY recommended reading for many on DU....
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jan 2015
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2446

It was my first assigned required reading in college and have seen it played out in real life repetitiously since then.

isitreal

(25 posts)
27. lying by ommision fracking ad in colorado
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:35 PM
Jan 2015

A local news paper looked at the facts behind the the add where some one claims to be an organic farmer that depends on the mineral income that she gets. Well it turns out She has been involved in the oil industry for many years and it is her primary job. The farming she does is mostly a hobby. The thing that takes the cake is she does not even live in the same county as where she has her mineral rights. This means she does not even have to tolerate the local impact caused by the fracking.

http://npaper-wehaa.com/boulder-weekly/#2014/12/11/s1/?article=2401274

madamesilverspurs

(15,805 posts)
28. "We can out-lawyer you."
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:38 PM
Jan 2015

That's what the oil companies told residents of Weld County Colorado over twenty years ago. Small towns and communities can go bankrupt on legal fees while fighting corporations for which such expenses are a mere drop in the barrel.

Weld County, now home to over 21K wells, presently boasts commissioners, all GOP, who are thoroughly gaga over all the oil money; they are also snidely dismissive of increasing health concerns. Similar attitudes prevail in Greeley, the county seat; during his re-election campaign the mayor was treated to a fundraising party in the offices of a drilling company, and his campaign signs were planted on well sites. The city now has several hundred wells within city limits.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
30. This isn't what we were told democracy was all about in school. The vote was supposed to matter.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jan 2015

Not be a cause to spend taxpayers' money defending what voters want.

I didn't know about Weld Co CO. Over 21000 wells. Heartbreaking. Thanks for the window to that part of our country though.

locks

(2,012 posts)
32. I have lived in Colorado
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 04:42 PM
Jan 2015

for 40 years where so many towns and people have worked long and hard to raise awareness about the dangers of fracking. We cannot help but be discouraged that oil and gas "own" the businesses, media and most of our elected representatives, and with their big bucks seem to win every battle in the courts and in the legislatures.

My granddaughter lives in Denton TX. There, too, the good people have worked for years and finally Denton was the first town to vote to ban fracking. But immediately after the win Texas big oil and the state regulators started lawsuits.

In Colorado we always think we are not so corrupt or conservative as Texas but there's very little difference when it comes to money and greed.

KauaiK

(544 posts)
36. Monsanto et al did the same thing on Kauai w/ GMOs
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:17 PM
Jan 2015

It's a tactic that companies use to bankrupt municipalities. Monsanto has protection enacted by Congress against law suits.

DFW

(54,403 posts)
37. Monsanto is evil incarnate
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:27 PM
Jan 2015

Messing with a place as pristine (formerly, anyway) as Kaua'i is the very definition of obscenity.

KauaiK

(544 posts)
39. The Kauai GMO law did not prohibit growing
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 03:41 PM
Jan 2015

all the law said was
1. They had to disclose WHAT they were spraying;
2. They had to give 48 hr notice when they were going to spray
3. They could not spray within 100 yrs of houses, schools, - essentially people.

There is a case in state court on Maui that IS going forward. Monsanto is trying to get it booted up to Federal Court where they have preemption (protection from Congress that Monsanto can't be sued).

Europe, India, Mexico and Countries in South American have prohibited GMO growing. Hawaii is ground zero b/c there is nothing near it for 2000 miles.

Here's a link (that hopefully works) as to what they are doing on Kauai. It's obscene and criminal....

http://times.org/2014/06/16/kauai-cocktail/

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