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Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 11:02 AM Jan 2015

FBI says search warrants not needed to use “stingrays” in public places

The Federal Bureau of Investigation is taking the position that court warrants are not required when deploying cell-site simulators in public places. Nicknamed "stingrays," the devices are decoy cell towers that capture locations and identities of mobile phone users and can intercept calls and texts.

The FBI made its position known during private briefings with staff members of Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa). In response, the two lawmakers wrote Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security chief Jeh Johnson, maintaining they were "concerned about whether the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have adequately considered the privacy interests" of Americans.

According to the letter, which was released last week:

For example, we understand that the FBI’s new policy requires FBI agents to obtain a search warrant whenever a cell-site simulator is used as part of a FBI investigation or operation, unless one of several exceptions apply, including (among others): (1) cases that pose an imminent danger to public safety, (2) cases that involve a fugitive, or (3) cases in which the technology is used in public places or other locations at which the FBI deems there is no reasonable expectation of privacy.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/fbi-says-search-warrants-not-needed-to-use-stringrays-in-public-places/



Use your phone in public your fair game for the american Ministry for State Security

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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FBI says search warrants not needed to use “stingrays” in public places (Original Post) Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 OP
One more squeeze on privacy in America nt newfie11 Jan 2015 #1
No--it's actually pretty consistent with Smith v. Maryland. You'd still need a warrant msanthrope Jan 2015 #12
D.C. Public Library Will Live-Stream a 10-Hour Reading Of George Orwell's 1984 mahatmakanejeeves Jan 2015 #2
One would think that a simple memo from the Attorney General Lurks Often Jan 2015 #3
An abomination on personal privacy, civil liberties and the rule of law. These things must have Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #4
Didn't the SCOTUS rule in the 90s that cell phones have no expectation of privacy? MohRokTah Jan 2015 #5
Technologically that hasn't been true since the late 90s LeftyMom Jan 2015 #6
Land lines are also in public places. So what stopped them from tapping the lines? L0oniX Jan 2015 #7
IIRC, they could tap payphones w/o a warrant. jeff47 Jan 2015 #8
No---I think it's Katz---a conversation (content) of a payphone would not be recordable without a msanthrope Jan 2015 #11
Aren't the Stingray devices JimDandy Jan 2015 #20
At the rate Law Enforcements are killing black people in this country Hutzpa Jan 2015 #9
good info frylock Jan 2015 #13
Then the pen register argument JimDandy Jan 2015 #21
Well, we all know the Constitution is just a piece of paper after all... truebrit71 Jan 2015 #10
"Death to America" is largely a domestic undertaking, isn't it? k&r n/t bobthedrummer Jan 2015 #14
Riddle me this Batman: How is it even fucking remotely possible SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #15
Please don't be this naive. Hutzpa Jan 2015 #16
Seriously? SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #18
Okay... maybe I misread your post because of this sentence Hutzpa Jan 2015 #19
Range and position. jeff47 Jan 2015 #17
 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
12. No--it's actually pretty consistent with Smith v. Maryland. You'd still need a warrant
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 02:45 PM
Jan 2015

to record content where there was a reasonable expectation of privacy but otherwise, cell data is an extension of the pen register.

I'm not saying I agree. I'm opining, however, that this isn't too far off current law.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,499 posts)
2. D.C. Public Library Will Live-Stream a 10-Hour Reading Of George Orwell's 1984
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 11:10 AM
Jan 2015
D.C. Public Library Will Live-Stream a 10-Hour Reading Of George Orwell's 1984

Matt Cohen in Arts & Entertainment on Jan 5, 2015 4:11 pm

Because we pretty much live in an Orwellian society anyway, the D.C. Public Library is hosting a ten-day series of events exploring how Big Brother is constantly watching us and everything we do all the time. Yes, you. Right now. No, you can't do anything about.

The series of events, entitled Orwellian America? Government Transparency and Personal Privacy in the Digital Age, will feature events, lectures, and screenings in venues across the city. To kick things off, the DCPL will live-stream an 11-hour marathon reading of George Orwell's classic dystopian novel 1984 in the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library's Great Hall.

According to a release, "special guest readers and members of the public will be on had to read aloud the entire text of the book," which will be live-streamed on YouTube. Anyone can sign up for a reading slot, which will start at 10 a.m. and wrap up by 9 p.m., by applying here.

Other events for DCPL's Orwellian America? series includes a lecture entitled "Government Transparency vs. National Security" at the Newseum on January 31, a screening of The Internet's Own Boy at Black Cat on January 18, and a session on accessing government information online. You can see the full lineup of events here.

Big Brother is watching you.

In January 2015, the DC Public Library, with funds granted by the Institute of Museum and Library Services, will present a 10-day series of events titled Orwellian America? Government Transparency and Personal Privacy in the Digital Age.

The program will launch Jan. 21, with a live-streamed marathon reading of George Orwell's classic dystopian novel 1984. (Sign up for a 10-minute reader slot by filling out our online form.)

Other events will include workshops on protecting individual's online privacy, film screenings, and a live-streamed program, "Privacy vs. Security: A Conversation," at the Newseum.

A monthlong celebration
Neighborhood libraries across the city will be hosting programs led by community partners, book discussions, and film screenings as a part of this series of events. Click here for a full list of all Orwellian America events.
 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
3. One would think that a simple memo from the Attorney General
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 11:18 AM
Jan 2015

could reverse the FBI's views on not needing a search warrant for #3 at the very least.


Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
4. An abomination on personal privacy, civil liberties and the rule of law. These things must have
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 11:21 AM
Jan 2015

judicial authorization or, yes, another part of the pavement in the road to fascism.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
5. Didn't the SCOTUS rule in the 90s that cell phones have no expectation of privacy?
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 11:27 AM
Jan 2015

Since they use wireless signals that anybody can capture, aren't they considered open game under the 4th amendment?

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
6. Technologically that hasn't been true since the late 90s
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 11:51 AM
Jan 2015

At that time carriers transitioned away from analog phones. Digital phone signals are encrypted so they can't really be stolen that way (or cloned, which was the big problem in the 90s.)

Lord knows law and technical savvy never overlap in this country though.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
8. IIRC, they could tap payphones w/o a warrant.
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 02:05 PM
Jan 2015

But it's been a really, really, really, really long time since the subject came up, so I could easily be misremembering.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
11. No---I think it's Katz---a conversation (content) of a payphone would not be recordable without a
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 02:44 PM
Jan 2015

warrant because you have a reasonable expectation of privacy as to your conversation. Smith v. Maryland, however, would allow a pen register because of the business record created.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
20. Aren't the Stingray devices
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 02:56 AM
Jan 2015

intercepting the calls before a business record for that call can be created with the phone company? Not sure how the process works.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
9. At the rate Law Enforcements are killing black people in this country
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 02:26 PM
Jan 2015

Last edited Tue Jan 6, 2015, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

you will think that something of this magnitudde will be used only on Judge approved warrants.

Edit

Just came across this information about how the makers of stingray device misled FCC.

This needs to get out there also ACLU is on top of this and should continue aapplying pressure.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/documents-suggest-maker-controversial-surveillance

Here is how a stingray works;



I might also add that the fear is criminals, corporate spies and foreign intelligent agencies could be in posession of said
device which is why ACLU wants the device banned.

But one of the ways to prevent this device from capturing your cell towers is to ensure your mobile signal is
on 3G or 4G network. An IMSI Catcher works by blocking the smarter 3G or 4G signals forcing the phones in the area
to switch to unsecured 2G network.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
21. Then the pen register argument
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 03:06 AM
Jan 2015

couldn't apply, because the call is being intercepted by the stingray device before it gets to the service carrier right? This interception seems to disrupt the business relationship courts cited as their reason to not allow pen register data to be private.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
15. Riddle me this Batman: How is it even fucking remotely possible
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 04:19 PM
Jan 2015

to tell whether your cell phone is in a public or private place?

If I'm standing outside my front door it's legal for them to spy on me but not if I'm standing inside? And they know the difference how?

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
18. Seriously?
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 04:42 PM
Jan 2015

Do you think I'm naive about how cell phones work or naive about how I'm being spied on 24/7. It's hard to tell on DU, there are many here who believe the NSA/FBI/CIA have every right to fucking follow my every move.

This is no surprise to me, I have been taking shit on DU for a long time now whenever I bring up the fact that you have no more privacy.

And next time you have something to say, have the guts to say it not to try the old veiled insult. You want to have a civil debate on this with me fine, you want to talk shit? Take a fucking hike.

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
19. Okay... maybe I misread your post because of this sentence
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jan 2015
If I'm standing outside my front door it's legal for them to spy on me but not if I'm standing inside? And they know the difference how?

Specifically this line threw me off slightly
And they know the difference how?
which is the main reason I suggested not to be naive, but now that you've made your point clear I can see exactly what you meant which is our privacy is been taken away from us by unscrupulous individuals whose sole purpose is to benefit from the ignorance of the majority of the American people.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
17. Range and position.
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 04:41 PM
Jan 2015

Set up the unit so it can only collect signals from a shopping mall, for example.

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