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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSalon: Let's Abolish West Point: Military academies serve no one, squander millions of tax dollars
http://www.salon.com/2015/01/05/lets_abolish_west_point_military_academies_serve_no_one_squander_millions_of_tax_dollars/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflowInteresting read.
In the spirit of hands across the aisle, Id like to suggest that the first thing the new Republican majority devote itself to is not, say, the repeal of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), but to converting the four hugely expensive and underproductive U.S. service academies (Navy, Army, Air Force and Coast Guard) taxpayer-funded undergraduate institutions whose products all become officers in the military to more modest and functional schools for short-term military training programs, as the British have repurposed Sandhurst.
Training is something the military doeseducation, certainly, is not. Indeed, undergraduate education of officers has already largely been outsourced, since most new officers come from the much cheaper Reserve Officer Training Corps programs at civilian universities (at one-quarter the cost of the academies), or from the several months of Officer Training Corps (one-eighth the cost) that follows either an enlisted career, or college. By all standards, these officers are just as good as those who come from the service academies, which now produce under 20 percent of U.S. officers.
The service academies once had a purpose: when they were founded in the 19th century (the Air Force split off from Army after World War II), college was classics and religion for gentlemen, so it made sense to have technical training institutes for people who would be in charge of increasingly technical warfare. All the service academies have now to justify their cost and their pretensions, it seems, is their once-illustrious history, and the club of tradition, which they wield mercilessly against students who dare question why things are as they are.
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NV Whino
(20,886 posts)I think it has merit.
MADem
(135,425 posts)National military academies are a place where a lot of foreign military exchange happens. Most people don't realize that a lot of future military leaders of our allies (and former allies) got their start at a US military college or studied at a graduate military institute or war college.
And millions? Millions is pennies, chickenfeed...once Rummy and Snarly got going and spent TRILLIONS on their pet war, hell, a million is like chickenfeed!!!
We sometimes send a guinea pig or two to foreign academies/war colleges--it's a cooperative exercise.
If anything, I say "Mend it, not end it" is the way to go.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)A small fraction at the academies, actually.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)were ROTC products.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)In the combat arms the ROTC officers had less training than the other schools, having gone through only a short branch course. Even Infantry OCS, at 6 months, was at least twice as long.
Of course, as an Army Infantry OCS grad I'll admit that I could be slightly biased.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)My mileage varied.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)We should cut every other military expenditure before we cut the education of future military officers.
We shrunk the military down after WWI and had to rebuild it for WWII, there's no reason to cut any education spending.
If we are going to cut something, let's make less tanks and fighters. You could educate a lot of folks for the cost of a fighter.
I understand West Point has a good engineering program.
jen63
(813 posts)has overtaken USMA in just about all areas, including STEM. For clarity, I have a dog in this fight. My son is a 3/C Midshipman at USNA. Our lives haven't been easy; I moved him to one of the best high school districts in the state and we lived like church mice. He worked very hard for his appointment and did it all on his own. These are the kinds of kids we need leading our armed forces. Unless you are familiar with the Service Academies, ROTC seems just as good; but it isn't. You have to see it to understand and believe it. GO NAVY, FEAR THE GOAT!!
Blanks
(4,835 posts)I agree with you "these are the kind of kids we need leading our armed forces" even if ROTC is better (which I don't necessarily agree with either) I think it is better to have both programs.
I think all able bodied youngsters should go through some type of basic military training it is an opportunity to meet people from different walks of life, different regions of the country etc.
Military training and military education aren't inherently wrong, we spend too much on defense - we don't spend too much on military education. A fair amount of it is history and the history of war tells us that war is rarely (if ever) a good idea.
They also teach that "team" as opposed to "me." No one succeeds on their own. My son was turned down the first time he applied to USNA and spent a year at Ohio State; he even applied for an ROTC scholarship and was turned down. He ended up with 5200.00 in loans just for that year. He graduated from a school district that has 63 valedictorians and still owed that much in loans. The second time he applied he got his appointment. He's in his element there and other than missing his family and girlfriend, he has no regrets. He's getting an MIT type education and I am forever grateful that he has this opportunity.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)You do find the occasional "ring knocker," but by and large, they have been fine officers. Good luck to your son. Fly Navy!
jen63
(813 posts)vote of confidence. My only worry is that the conservative indoctrination will be successful. He entered USNA as a liberal. I try to remind him when ever we talk that he doesn't need to give up his principles in order to conform to the conservative ideology there. The more liberals in the military the better for our country. When these liberal young men and women climb the ranks, we may see a sea change in the way our military operates. That's my fervent wish!
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)So don;t worry too much.
jen63
(813 posts)I figure my 21 years worth of influence will counteract the military. In fact, before he applied to USNA, I had him pegged for the Peace Corps type. He did tons of service work outside the country, I hope those experiences stick with him.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Like so many things, the fight wouldn't be worth the results. Besides, for better or worse some kids are getting a "public" college education.
Besides, it would interfere with my idea of setting up an academy for foreign service. Basically an academy for the State Department. Graduates would work in embassies and consulates the world round, and/or do a couple of cycles through the Peace Corp. Ultimately I can see graduates being the people that begin to populate the executive branch in general, and also getting elected to the Congress as well.
geardaddy
(24,931 posts)I don't necessarily agree with closing the military academies, I just thought it was an interesting article.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)My wife got her PhD at a George Washington U in DC. That place seemed stuffed with foreign policy students. They apparently produce a large number of foreign service officers.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Well, and I'll admit that I also want people who got undergraduates in this academy to go into other fields as well and be knowledgeable about foreign affairs. They might make more intelligent voters and supportive of diplomatic efforts over military ones.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I would never forgive or vote for any politician who would make such a stupid proposal.
linuxman
(2,337 posts)The dumbest thing I'll read this week.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)And I'd definitely want to keep the postgraduate school in DC, but the idea is intriguing in general.