By Black September was just in anticipation of the Bush/Cheney illegal war then.

Why the need to make excuses for those animals?

There's a history of Islamic atrocities that pre-dates 2001.

I tried.

It's always something with those fugitives from the 6th century isn't it.

It was Christianity & Judiasim; and Christianity and Islam that had problems.you will also note. That Christianity went through its own cycles of fundie violence over the ages. Is 't so much specific religions as it is problem of forcing one's beliefs on others.

Islam is certainly no worse than others in this regard, and certainly it is far from majority of its adherents. Just bcause some historical Christians were brutal murdering idiots doesn't mean the entire religion can. Be painted that way, even though there are christian fundie terrorists at work today.

Try reading before making a fool of yourself.

them a 'cause', yes the whole world pays a price especially when the bad leadership is from a powerful country like this.

Bush/Cheney are war criminals, so far they are responsible for the deaths of over ONE MILLION human beings including thousands of our own troops.

What has THAT got to do with a totally different crime?

The Iraq invasion was a massive crime against humanity.

Don't try going down that road.

You?

I'd be crushed if I respected your opinion, but I don't even know who the fuck you are so I'm not.

Nice try though.

Oh wait, that was Christians.

Quite frankly, all religions have crazy fundies. Those peeps get offended at anything. Remember the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ"? or the book "Holy Blood Holy Grail" ? or that picture of Christ with urine all over it? or the murder of Dr. George Tiller? might as well ask about Dan Brown's De Vinci Code too. The Christian fundies here in the USA are just as nut-so as Isis or any Muslin fundie sect.

Religions do not have unicorns and rainbow peaceful all lovey dovey history.

But alas these terrorists are rather young and it wouldn't surprise me if just like a thread I saw the other day here about kids these days not knowing who Paul McCarthy is, maybe the would be young terrorist might not remember the slaughter of the Israeli Olympic Team which was Munich btw not Berlin..... just saying.

Have a great Blessed day!

and even the Crusades.

about "these animals" is strangely reminiscent

As for Hitler, he not only didn't think the Muslims were animals he revered them and they thought him a hero for doing their work.

So I guess your fond reminiscing is accurate. Good ole 'Dolf aye?

one who has no problem with such talk, not me.

you're saying some groups really *are* animals, hitler just got it wrong which groups they were.

why are you here, I didn't realize that was a democratic party value.


PS:

Al-Husseini and the Muslims troops fighting on the side of the Wehrmacht were not representative of Muslim sentiments in the course of World War II. Hundreds of thousands of Muslim soldiers from Africa, India, and the Soviet Union helped to defeat fascism at places like El-Alamein, Monte Cassino, the beaches of Provence, and Stalingrad.

There were also stories of great courage and sacrifice on the part of Muslims who risked their own lives to save the Jews from the Nazis. Muslim Albania was the only country in Europe in which there were more Jews after the war than there had been before the war. Before World War II, there were only 200 Jews in Albania, which had a total population of 800,000. After the war, there were many more Jews after Jewish refugees from some half dozen European countries fled the Nazi persecution and sought shelter in Albania...

Only about 1 percent of Jews in North Africa-between 4,000 and 5,000-perished under Axis control in Arab lands, compared with more than half the Jews of Europe. But had U.S. and British troops not pushed Axis forces from the African continent by May 1943, the Jews of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and perhaps even Egypt and Palestine almost certainly would have met the same fate as the European Jewry.

In all of this, Arabs played a central role. Indeed, Arabs' actions were not too different from those of Europeans. With war waging around them, most were indifferent. A percentage collaborated, including Arab officials in royal courts, Arab guards in labor camps, and those who went house to house pointing out where Jews lived. However, there were also Arabs who tried to help Jews. The sultan of Morocco and the bey of Tunis provided moral support and, at times, practical help to Jewish subjects. There were also remarkable stories of rescue...

http://www.projetaladin.org/holocaust/en/muslims-and-jews/the-holocaust-and-muslims.html

US bases in Saudi Arabia which is blamed on Saddam's invasion of Kuwait which is blamed divisions imposed after WWI which is blamed on the Ottoman Empire which is blah -- blah -- blah

People were murdered yesterday over a cartoon.

for the insurgency in Iraq after Abu Ghraib.

and the slaughter of one million of their citizens, president and leader was 'motivated by 9/11' and further, objections were not seen as 'freedom of the press'. Ask Dan Rather or Bill Maher.
No satire was tolerated - no criticism - ask the Dixie Chicks and others.
It was George Bush who called it a 'crusade'.
Spare me - this planet has barbarians everywhere and we in the West are just as evil.

People were murdered yesterday over a cartoon.

There is no justification, excuse, alibi, moment of understanding, deflection or anything else. It's murder and the murderers are solely responsible for their actions. It is no more linked to the occupation than is the bounty on Salman Rushdie's head or the murder of Theo Van Gogh.

Just like every other year.

Of COURSE everyone knows that the BFEE is the fault of all this bullshit WOT. Just some posters are special and will carry water for a group they hate or claim to.

a grievance to justify whatever it is they want to do.

the defense of Bush et al. Can you effin' believe it?

You noticed the various defenses of the bush gang and its acts too.

What a load of BS. The only thing accurate is your last sentence.

evil, crazed people predisposed to such horror can be rationalized in their own minds by many things, but yes ..... I agree that western intervention into Iraq and the horrors there no doubt did influence many, many people to claim the right to their own atrocities.

One article I read said that:

4. One of the Other Alleged Terrorists Is a Convicted Terrorist

The Associated Press reported in 2008 that Cherif Kouachi had been sentenced to three years in prison in Paris for helping to funnel prospective jihadi fighters from France to Iraq. He served 18 months, another 18 months of his sentence was suspended. In that case, Cherif was named as a member of the 19th arrondissement network, named for the mainly North African neighborhood where they were based. The New York Times first reported on Cherif in 2005. It was reported that he had become inspired to fight in jihad due to the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuses.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/01/hamid-mourad-charlie-hebdo-terror-suspect-arrest-yemen-cheriff-jouachi-said-kouachi/

That's all that I'm saying.

Let me be clear - these journalists and cartoonists are innocent victims - but there are people who see them as enablers of the slaughter of Muslims everywhere.
One man's terrorist is another man's 'Resistance Movement' or 'freedom fighter'.
And we in the West do not get to define everything. We are just as fugging evil.

No-one here is blaming anyone else for anything, but they themselves had obviously picked and chosen their own sick reasoning for doing what they did, and Iraq gave at least one of them fertile grounds in his own mind as one excuse to express his hate. So yes, Bush and Cheney's atrocities have led to what we all know ..... a rise in terrorism - even as senseless and sick as the retaliation against innocent people is, for all of us who aren't crazed murderers - including billions of Muslims around the world. I feel horrible for all the Muslims in Europe who will pay for this - these three will have the blood of many more than the poor people at Charlie Hebdo on their hands.

if the facts didn't show the vast majority of Muslims being slaughtered are being killed by other Muslims. The religious freaks like isis will kill anyone who doesn't adhere to their beliefs and that has zero to do with what we did in Iraq or our support for Israel. In fact, it's an argument that we should have left the brutal but secular dictator in place to keep the religious crazies in line (which would have been fine with me).

the Baath Party and other anit-communist elements in Iraq to smash the Iraqi Communist Party and destabiize and overthrow Iraq's Socialist leader Qasim. That sort of set the ball in motion, so to speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iraq

was now that they've stolen the election and gotten by with it how best to pad they and their friends pockets and set off a fire ball of hate and discontent that will possibly never be extinguished. Surely not to be seen by any one who was alive during the coup of '00.

Last edited Thu Jan 8, 2015, 11:16 AM - Edit history (1)

This was their neo-con plan and we are going to pay for it for decade to come.
And they do not give a flying fugg about our rights or freedoms. Sadly rational and irrational people have seen through the bullshit.

k&r...

Every solution to a problem contains the seeds of the next problem. The reality we live in is constructed of the unintended consequences of human action.

The NYT and Washington Post refuse to publish any of the cartoons, as offensive to religion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/news-organizations-wrestle-with-whether-to-publish-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-after-attack/2015/01/07/841e9c8c-96bc-11e4-8005-1924ede3e54a_story.html

but then I don't know French political culture or their sensibilities

Suspects in Charlie Hebdo shooting were on U.S. no-fly list for years

Said Kouachi's ID card found in 1 getaway car used in shooting

By John-Thor Dahlburg, Jamey Keaten, CBC
The Associated Press Posted: Jan 08, 2015 5:01 PM ET Last Updated: Jan 08, 2015 8:43 PM ET

The two French brothers wanted in the newspaper office bloodbath in Paris were already known to U.S. authorities and had been put on the American no-fly list, a senior U.S. counterterrorism official said Thursday.

Another U.S. official said the older brother, Said Kouachi, had travelled to Yemen. Though there is conflicting information about what he did while in Yemen, U.S. and European sources told Reuters he trained with Al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula, one of the group's most active affiliates.

SNIP...

They were identified as suspects after the older brother's ID card was found in the getaway car, authorities said.

Witnesses said the gunmen in the attack claimed allegiance to al-Qaeda's offshoot in Yemen.

Both Kouachi brothers — the Paris-born offspring of Algerian parents — were already known to French counterterrorism authorities.

Cherif, a former pizza deliveryman, had appeared in a 2005 French TV documentary on Islamic extremism and was sentenced to 18 months in prison in 2008 for trying to join up with fighters battling in Iraq.

SNIP...

A French security official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said that American authorities had shared intelligence with France indicating that Said had travelled to Yemen several years ago for training. French authorities were seeking to verify the information, the official said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/suspects-in-charlie-hebdo-shooting-were-on-u-s-no-fly-list-for-years-1.2894432

If Jeb Bush wins, it will basically cement the idea that their permanent war is OK. They should be rotting in prison.

nt

Because freedom!



And christians would only start a decade long war and kill and disrupt the lives of millions of people for a good cause, so stop bringing this up!

good old capitalism because usury is good and we in the West can carve up the world and share out benevolence as we define it to all - now don't you dare say we're exploiting anyone - we're merely spreading our freedumbs.

That gathering in France today was just as delusional. They've all suppressed freedom and been responsible for silencing and killing journalists.

fix the mess. Hopefully we will someday.