The anti-vaccers have had a hand in this.

Fucking anti-vaccination nutjobs abound where I live here in Orange County. . .home of Disneyland.

Not vaccinating your kids is child abuse.

Europeans do not routinely vaccinate. Any tourist destination of Europeans--airports, Disney World, the Fort Worth Stock Show--is at risk.

You know, before I even opened the OP, I knew that someone would use this as as excuse to pummel folks who object to vaccines---even though the disease almost certainly originated in a tourist who will never be identified.

That she got somewhere around the age of forty.

Not only did she refuse to vaccinate her kids for every crank reason you can think of, she herself refused antibiotics after a miscarriage caused by an infection and came within hours of septic shock. She also put permanent scars on her arms and legs with some sort of ointment that was supposed to leech unspecified toxins from her skin.

Western medicine: Bad!

Sketchy remedies ordered online or bought in little ethnic stores with instructions translated with Google Translate: Good!

When they first moved in I was sure she was a Scientologist, but she is FAR beyond that.

Europeans do not routinely vaccinate? I love statements like that.

So sure of itself and yet so short of evidence that it almost begs the following statement "full of shit".

I can assure you that all Northern European ones do.

If I were the parent of an infant too young for the vaxx who caught one of those diseases I would be furious beyond words.

In the late 1940s and early 1950's my parents took me to visit anyone who had measles, mumps or chicken pox. I scored a home run on the measles and chicken pox but I had the mumps when I was 16 even though I was playing with my mump jawed cousin in grade school.

It was better to get the disease at a young age than it not happen until an adult.

ALSO I MUST ADD my mother waited until I was school age and NOT as an infant.

It was no picnic.

Another victory for the forces of woo.

out at places like Disneyland. My neighbor is a pediatrician and he says his daughter isn't going there until she's 10 or 11.

I'm not anti-vaccine but I think there is blame on both sides.

and could just as easily be picked up in the supermarket or at the bank. Good luck keeping kids away from all those places before they're eleven. What other nuggets of wisdom has your anonymous paediatrician friend passed along?

like measles? If they're too young to vaccinate it seems to me you wouldn't want to expose them to such large groups. I'm sorry my neighbors advice offends you, he doesn't mean too, he only means to protect his child.

My doctor told me to cover my sons carrier with a blanket or towel for the first six months. I thought it was sound advice.

the supermarket has a low ratio of children to adults and very little contact common objects.

you have the shopping carts, the credit card machines, the fresh produce and the checkout counters. Most of these come into contact with many if not most people in a supermarket.

Do you have any anonymous paediatrician friends that you'd like to reference, Jim?

They are usually in their own carriers or mom brings a shopping cart cover. Moms can use hand sanitizers.

But yes, one can even pick up TB at the supermarket.

Some people just don't seem to understand simple human respect At Disneyland, all kids, the most likely carries of these diseases are riding the same rides and griping very tightly the SAME restraints as the hundreds of others that same day. Not so in the supermarket and certianly not the numbers.

Petri dish of germs.

It's only babies under 2 months that are too young to be vaccinated for anything but HepB.

http://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/infants_to_teens/index.html

Toddlers should already be vaccinated and enjoying Disneyland. We had yearly passes until my son turned 7. My son is now 11 and considers himself too old for most of the rides in Disneyland. So if you wait until your kids are 10 or 11, you really are depriving them of their prime Disneyland years, your "pediatrician neighbor" advice notwithstanding.

And all the other theme parks here in Orlando. But WDW is my favorite.

But I do understand - I think there might have been a time in my tweens/early teens where image was way more important than fun.

Glad I got over that! Haunted Mansion babeeeeeee!

not at 2 months. Other vaccines, multiple doses, are given earlier, especially for diseases they are more likely to contract or have more devastating outcomes.

I kept my kids out of public until they had at least one dose of vaccine for the scariest diseases.

My kid got his first MMR shot at 12 months. We got a yearly passes to Disneyland when he was 2 years old and renewed them until he was 7.

I agree you have to be careful with babies, especially with all those idiots out there not vaccinating their children. I kept him in the stroller a lot to keep him from slobbering on stuff in the park.

But I don't know how you can keep a baby "out of the public" altogether for the first 12 months, nor do I think that would be good for the baby's development.

Until he had first doses of all vaccines except mmr, plus 2 weeks for them to take effect. That would be about 2-3 months. You can't wait for the mmr, but breastfeeding imparts some immunities as well.

of measles all stemming from Disneyland visits at a specific time period in December of 2014. Of the 19 only 2 cases were too young to begin vaccinating-says the article-and there were only 2 cases of full vaccination. The other 15 were either un-vacccinated or in partial stage of vaccination.

The article I read also says that the only way to prevent measles is through vaccination. Yet there were 2 cases that were fully vaccinated.

Dunno seems like maybe even full vaccination is no guarantee.

My measles titer was checked before I got pregnant. Should have been in the greater than 1.0 for me. But since I had measles as a child, my antibody level was >1000.

Adults should be revaccinated for measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) and Tetanus, Dipheria, & Pertussis according to their Dr's recommendations. Seems like most drs only rec the tetanus boosters. I took both sets plus Hep B series when I was an adult in her early thirties.

I was 31 my grad school required I get another MMR vac. It wasn't a big deal to me to get it, I actually was glad to see the uni was proactive in that way.

What I don't get is why is everyone so mad at the anti-vaccine crowd? They're most likely the ones who caught it. Maybe from a pre-vaccine Grandparent who was taking their Grandchildren to Disneyland for the holidays. Or someone from another country where there isn't that vaccine standard we have.

Big places like that with tons of different people from all over the world, it's a breeding ground for all kinds of stuff.

idiot anti vaxxers

Odd since it's aimed at kids younger than that. That's way way way outside the norm.

pass to those infants?

Another thought is that perhaps infants that young should not be out in places like Disneyland.

More to the point, eight of nine people who came down with measles had not received the recommended vaccinations, so maybe the blame is on those who didn't get the vaccinations, not on anyone else.

I'm of the generation who got all the "childhood diseases" meaning measles, mumps rubella, and chicken pox. I'm not suggesting we go back to those days, but those who chose not to vaccinate have no grounds for complaint if their kids get any of these diseases.

A side note: five years ago when I was hired to work at a hospital, they wanted to know when I'd been immunized for these diseases. I laughed out loud, pointed to my birth date (1948) and said I'd had all of those.

Another aside note: My oldest son, born in 1982, got Fifth disease when he was 18 months old. Look it up, if you're interested.

I'm trying to recall info lost in the jumble of my memory so forgive me if I fumble. But, I believe that the mother passes on her antibodies to pathogens during the last couple of months of pregnancy. She also passes on antibodies in her colostrum. Some antibodies are passed on in breast milk but I don't think it is as much as during late pregnancy and the first few days of breastfeeding.

I think that I read that the youngest of the Disney visitors infected were both eight months old. Breastfeeding may or may not offer a whole lot of protection at that age (and not all babies are at breast at that age). And, the antibodies are from the mother so the child would never produce any of his own until he is vaccinated or infected himself. I think that the passive immunity would offer protection for only a few weeks after a mother stops breastfeeding.

Part of me was wondering why in the world would a parent expose an unvaccinated child to large crowds but then I rethought it all. Most of us would take a curious eight month old into the big world without too much concern. They aren't very mobile, they are generally contained in a very tiny space (our arms and/or a stroller) so they can't touch much or put something into their mouth without our knowing. So, even out in public the parents do have some control

But, they don't get that MMR vaccine until they are at least 12 months old. And, they don't have to touch anything to get measles. It can travel through air. It doesn't matter if the child is at Disney, daycare or the grocery store. If he is exposed before being vaccinated then there is the risk of infection.

--since you mentioned your generation, I'll mention mine. I was born in the late 60's and was given my MMR shot (back then only one was given). But, I came down with rubella shortly after and got the mumps in the early 70's. There was a huge batch of ineffective vaccines given to a large number of American children. I can remember being rather bummed that only one side was affected when I had the mumps. I only had swelling on one side and that was good for two weeks out of school. If both sides had swelled, I would have had a three week vacation. darn.

I know that a lot of what was learned about the effectiveness of certain vaccines came from when the first cohort who was vaccinated, then some years later exposed, and came down with the disease. That's why certain vaccines require booster shots.

As I noted, I was born in 1948, and I'm now 66 years old. About a year ago I got a shingles vaccination. It's clear that right now they (meaning the medical establishment) aren't sure just how long the vaccine will be good for, and so I'm guessing that as the very first of those who got the shingles vaccine suddenly break out in shingles, we'll know just how long it's good for. And then I'll get my second shot or booster or whatever they call it at that point.

Regarding shingles, my younger son, now 27, came home from college at age 20 with a strange rash. I sent him off to the family doctor, who diagnosed something or another, can't recall what. Son then went on the internet, and said to me, "I think this is shingles." Turned out he was right, and a course of anti-viral medication cleared things up. I'm under the impression that someone who comes down with shingles, as he did, at a relatively young age, is more likely to get it again. Oh, and he's just old enough not to have gotten the chicken pox vaccination. I also believe that the shingles vaccination simply isn't given to someone as young as he is.

Dealing with all of these diseases is complicated. In a way I feel fortunate that I'm old enough I got all the so-called childhood diseases. And yes, I recognize that they are not all completely benign to everyone. In a similar manner, someone who got smallpox and recovered had a permanent immunity. The smallpox vaccination is only good for a period of time. Don't get me wrong. I'm by no means advocating that we all get smallpox, just noticing the difference between getting the disease and having the vaccination.

I do remember getting those diseases quite well. The mumps were especially painful.

did not breastfeed me. If she had, I probably would not have caught measles so young.

Now getting ready to turn 67, I just got the Pneumonia Vac, and I was wondering if I had most of the vaccinations. I can't remember if I had measles or chicken pox. I want to protect myself as I am in the risk group. Asthma and Mitral Valve problems. I run away from the little kids and the people with little kids.

I got DPT (not the same as DTap today). They came around with the Polio one when I was in school. They also came around with the Measles one in school also. We had to raise our hands if we had ever gotten measles, which most of the kids in class had. They did NOT give the measles vax to anyone who raised their hands. Tell THAT one to those younger posters. Back in the 50s, they did not give measles vax to those who the had the disease itself. lol

Even if you didn't actually have mumps or chicken pox, CDC consider you immune being born before a certain time since you were exposed to the disease back then.

I was completely unaware of a measles vaccine before the MMR.

When I was less than a year old, my older sister got chicken pox, and because I was so young, my mom took me to the doctor and I got a gamma globulin injection. I never broke out with the actual pox, although apparently I seemed unwell at exactly the time I would have broken out. My sister had a very bad case, and Mom, who was a nurse, said many times that it was the worst she'd ever seen.

Growing up we (I'm one of six kids) got all the standard childhood diseases. I know that there's a blood test to see if you've had Rubella, and maybe there are some for the others, I don't know.

A few years ago, after being hired by the local hospital, I was asked to fill out paperwork that included my vaccination history, which I found highly amusing. There wasn't a place to put down when I'd had all those things.

As for polio, the Catholic school I attended for kindergarten and first grade was one of the ones involved in the testing of the Salk vaccine. And I clearly remember the mass immunization clinics as soon as it became available.

Big stainless steel thing and no changes between shots, no separate needles. I am surprised that the entire generation wasn't killed off.

and yes, they do continue to receive antibodies.

http://www.llli.org/faq/prevention.html

Breastfeeding has been shown to be protective against many illnesses, including painful ear infections, upper and lower respiratory ailments, allergies, intestinal disorders, colds, viruses, staph, strep and e coli infections, diabetes, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, many childhood cancers, meningitis, pneumonia, urinary tract infections, salmonella, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome(SIDS) as well as lifetime protection from Crohn's Disease, ulcerative colitis, some lymphomas, insulin dependent diabetes, and for girls, breast and ovarian cancer.

One way breast feeding protects your newborn from illnesses is the immune molecules, called antibodies, that are present in breast milk. Antibodies are made by your body's immune system and are very specific molecules that help you fight each illness. When babies are born, their immune systems are very immature and they have less ability to fight illness-causing germs. Through your breast milk, you give your baby immunities to illnesses to which you are immune and also those to which you have been exposed. Nursing also allows your baby to give germs to you so that your immune system can respond and can synthesize antibodies! This means that if your baby has come in contact with something which you have not, (s)he will pass these germs to you at the next nursing; during that feeding, your body will start to manufacture antibodies for that particular germ. By the time the next feeding arrives, your entire immune system will be working to provide immunities for you and your baby. If you are exposed to any bacteria or viruses, your body will be making antibodies against them and these will be in your milk. Breast milk also contains a host of other immune molecules that also help protect your baby from germs

Don't you know the new attraction is "The Elephant Flu" ?

The adult attractions are fair game, but for God's sake these are miners!

Even the miner attractions have gone viral.

I'm surprised he didn't attract more attention this season


(Thanks for the clip. My most 'recent' memories of that movie involve the scene with the General in "1941" )

I want to bang my head against the wall when I read stories like this.

whole bunch of them are convinced that vaccinations caused their children's Autism. Science refutes that, of course - but it is still widely believed.

Beliefs. If people do not want to vaccinate their children they shouldn't be allowed in public to cause serious health risk to the general public.

How do you even know that? You are getting into a police state with that one.

would be in danger getting the vaccine. Please don't put words in my mouth.

in 1949. 6 months old to be exact. Not hospitallized. A month later I got chicken pox. Again, not hospitalized. I am now 66 years old.

Those infants will now have lifetime immunity to Measles. They will not need to be vaccinated or get boosters. Unvaccinated Baby Boomers are walking all around you today.

while the virius may go away it never leave the persons system. It may never cause any further problem or it may reerupt as one ages especially beyond 50 as shingles.

<You can't catch shingles from someone who has it. However, if you have a shingles rash, you can pass the virus to someone who has never had chickenpox. This would usually be a child, who could get chickenpox instead of shingles. The virus spreads through direct contact with the rash, and cannot spread through the air.>

There was another poster who said that.

I just don't want anyone on here to get confused of think since they've had measles they won't get shingles.

I had a friend who refused to wear a seat belt because his dad walked away from being hit by a train without a seat belt. Of course, they couldn't interview the other 1,000 people hit by trains because they all died.

Likewise, your story is great. Too bad we can't interview the millions who caught it the same way you did and died.

Seriously, step back and look at your reasoning. It blows big time.

I know it might even be YOU as the ads all say.

After all, if they survive, they can now say they caught the disease as an infant, just like hockeymom.

Who's contagious in the club
that's made for you and me?

Next up for the anti-vaxxers, POLIO!!!

I hope somebody out there still knows how to make an iron lung.

someone had kids sick with measles, and decided the best thing to do was to take them into one of the most densely populated theme parks in the world?

It amazes me to no end how little consideration people give to those around them...... not to mention that I'm sure if a doctor knew your kid had measles he or she is going to tell you that for your child's sake you need to keep them at home on bed rest, not out in a theme park!

We are Typhoid Marys walking around carrying the measles disease inside of us. While we "may or may not" catch it again, we can give it to the little children because we haven't been vaccinated oureslves. Hey, Grandpa, better get your MMR vax before you take the Grandkids to Disney.

for boosters for seniors. They outbreaks of our youths are coming back to haunt us.

http://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/seniors/

http://www.vaccines.gov/who_and_when/

My niece is a NICU Nurse and everyone in her unit must get shots and boosters. That included flu. She made a list for me to talk with my Dr. I got whooping cough booster and the flu shot this yr next year they will do shingles.

Last edited Fri Jan 9, 2015, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)

She has a super immune system that prevents her from every getting even the flu. And believes that kids today should just have mumps/meales/etc instead of vaccinating. Because well SHE lived through it.

Anti vaxxers at DU should be treated the same as chemtrailers.

Sid

That would make a great TV ad. About the same as throwing her off that cliff.

Good. Welcome to science.

Sid

I had all those diseases.

Read it. See how many people on there have said they haven''t gotten the flu since "1968", "1976", etc. Just ME and MY super immunine system? Also, think about how many years it has been and how old these DU posters must be. I think there was one poster who said he was 71 years old and at the rate he is going, he will be dead from old age before he gets the flu.

Just ME??????? lol Maybe the BETTER question is, why AREN'T we getting the flu in all that time? It must be all of you with your Herd Immunity protecting us from the flu for the past 30/40 years!!!!!!

to not waste their time recommending any vaccines for you.

That's the same person who got on DU to laugh at her husband when he got sick.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014957554#post13

But there is for other diseases.

Honestly, the good old days before vaccines were, frankly, not that good.

where is that? This is also from the CDC website. Very long, so I only copies this paragraph.

Why are people born before 1957 exempt from receiving MMR vaccine?

People born before 1957 lived through several years of epidemic measles before the first measles vaccine was licensed. As a result, these people are very likely to have had the measles disease. Surveys suggest that 95% to 98% of those born before 1957 are immune (highlighted) to measles. Note: The "1957 rule" applies only to measles and mumps—it does NOT apply to rubella.

I do know that health care workers born before 1957 are given a blood draw to prove they have these antibodies; not an automatic MMR vax. Back when I had my kids, my OB did a draw for Rubella. I had the antibodies to Rubella from having had it as a child. Doubt they even bother testing pregnant women anymore. They just give vax.

BTW, I remember also when my kids were born every visitor to the NICU what to wear masks and gowns, including babies Dads. Today, it's signs all over. Are you up to date on your vaccinations? lol Paper, Citizens? Personally, I would rather go with the masks and gowns Today they won't let nurses do that. FIRE your ass if you refuse a flu shot. Maybe they need Hazmat suits? Maybe everyone needs that to walk around anywhere in public? Better safe, than sorry?

MMR is WHITE space, not yellow for recommended. This is because it is assumed over that age you had measles or came into contact with it.

I am left shaking my head at your posts Hockeymom.

used to have to wear gowns and masks years ago. Not show me your vax papers.

When my son was in neonatal we had to scrub in and yes, wear caps and gowns. it's a ward full of the most vulnerable of all humans. We should do everything we can to ensure they don't get other illnesses on top of what already has them there.

Also, I happen to be a nurse and no one I know has ever been fired for refusing the flu shot. If you refuse the flu shot, you have to wear a mask in all patient care areas if you're a hospital employee in any department. Fired, no.

A pregnant nurse was fired for refusing a flu shot. Hospital would not give her the option to wear a mask. She won her lawsuit.

I'm 55.

Not saying that vaccines are bad, but I'm just wondering why it's so horrid that kids get these diseases? Most of us got them and recovered.

now that you know 2.6 million kids die from it, do you now think it's horrid?

"Most of us got them and recovered."

What about the rest?

the people who never got the diseases at all, not the ones who got the diseases and were killed or disabled by them.

At least, I hope that's what was meant.

I'm not antivax, had them all that existed when I was that age. We all got chicken pox, mumps and German measles - the diseases, no vax existed then. Measles vaccine existed in my day and I got it. I'd have my kids vaccinated.

However this moralizing around vaccination does get old. Of course, everything these days is subject to moralizing - what you eat, where you eat, where you shop... Live and let live is dead.

It is not about YOU but other people. You are SELFISH. Well, as a Grannie myself, when did I sign up to become the CDC's Poster Child? I don't like be USED for some campaign.

I made sure my kids had that vaccination.

Now the HPV vaccine was so new, I refused to allow my daughter, who was 14 at the time, to get it. And I don't vaccinate my dogs every year; you can run titers to see if they still have immunity. People can do that, too.

Most people survived these diseases with no long-term problems, but some died and some were permanently disabled.

If you go back in time to before we had vaccines, life was very different. Children often did not live to be adults.

If you have 7 billion people around the world, and they get sick with a disease that "only" kills 1 in 1000, how many corpses are we gonna be stacking up?

but not everyone survived to adulthood. Some kids did die of these diseases. My parents (late 70s) can list off who they grew up with who died of various diseases.

because most recovered? Really, there is no excuse for not getting vaccinated and clearly those choosing not to are endangering others willfully.

Her cousin Jan is still in a wheelchair from contracting polio before the vaccine came to Montana.

I love WDW in Orlando.

Ugh!

Just by way of reality, the death rate from measles in the United States since 1912 (as far back as the table I looked at went) was never great and was headed steeply down, even with a fairly stable number of measles cases, before the vaccination was developed. After the vax became widespread the death rate and the infection rate fell off a cliff, where it remains today.

Measles is extremely contagious and its lethality usually comes from complications. Complications are negatively correlated with nutrition and general health.

Just sayin' for a little perspective before too many people reach for the pitchfork and torches.