Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 09:54 PM Jan 2015

Will collapse in oil cause stock market crash?

Thom Hartmann was talking about this a few weeks ago, primarily energy junk bonds. Here's highlights from one article:

http://oil-price.net/en/articles/will-collapse-in-oil-price-cause-stock-market-crash.php

Snip

Possible Scenario

The mechanism by which a fall in the price of oil could trigger a collapse in the stock market lies in the financial devices used to fund oil exploration and exploitation throughout the world, and particularly in the United States. Modern oil exploration is financed through a range of methods including issuance of shares to increase capital, and raising debt through bonds and bank loans.

Snip

Today with oil under $50, many producers lose $20 for every barrel produced and will likely default on these loans, as outlined in last month's Falling Oil Price Slows US Fracking article. This loss will be passed to the banks that made the loans, as it happened with the housing sector in 2008.

A telltale sign of this is the recent 20% fall of high yield corporate bonds since this summer which follow very closely the fall in crude oil prices. Many investors are afraid of defaults in the high-yield market due to over-lending to the energy sector and are indiscriminately selling off "junk bonds." The downside of this corporate bond selloff across the board is that less favorable financing options will be available for other sectors, which in turn will spread the slowdown to the rest of the economy.

Snip

Not all shale oil exploitation was financed by loans and bonds. Derivatives have played a part, too and many of the main players in the fracking business have their prices set in futures contracts all the way into 2016. The holders of these obligations to buy will be in serious trouble if the oil price does not turn around by mid-2015 when many of these contracts fall due. The major Wall Street banks hold a total of $3.9 trillion worth of commodities contract, the bulk of which are based on oil and were written when oil seemed to be destined to remain above $80 per barrel. If the price of oil stays below $80, America's biggest financial institutions will have to beg – once again – the Fed (and the taxpayer) for help.

snip

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Will collapse in oil cause stock market crash? (Original Post) Ilsa Jan 2015 OP
I don't know... Adsos Letter Jan 2015 #1
It could. That's why they pushed the Citi rider through in the budget at the last minute, RiverLover Jan 2015 #2
More likely a boom. All carbon based energy is on sale for half price. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #3
I doubt it. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #4
I used to be a big Thom Hartmann fan, but I don't buy anything he says any more. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #5
His discussion got me interested, but the Ilsa Jan 2015 #6
Say good-bye to pensions for EVERYONE, then. WinkyDink Jan 2015 #7

Adsos Letter

(19,459 posts)
1. I don't know...
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 10:08 PM
Jan 2015

...but what would be the effect when combined with this:

Swiss Move Roils Global Markets
ZURICH—Switzerland’s central bank triggered turmoil in the markets Thursday when it unexpectedly scrapped its cap on the Swiss franc’s exchange rate against the euro, a move that unleashed new volatility among bonds and currencies around the world and further underscored growing concerns about global economic prospects.

Against the cloudy backdrop of collapsing oil prices, a sharply rising dollar, fresh doubts about the stability of the euro and mounting global concerns over deflationary pressures, the move by the Swiss authorities was the starkest sign yet of the pressure policy makers face in dealing with unusual financial conditions that threaten the world’s already fragile economy.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/switzerland-scraps-currency-cap-1421320531


RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
2. It could. That's why they pushed the Citi rider through in the budget at the last minute,
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 10:12 PM
Jan 2015

to protect themselves & deregulate some more so they can gamble with no risk. It's on us taxpayers, again.

Derivatives taken out to ensure prices don't go down are now creating billions in losses for those who sold such bets on the market; someone is going to have to absorb massive losses created by the sudden drop in oil on the other end of those insurance contracts. In many cases, it is the big Wall Street banks, and if the price of oil does not rebound substantially they could be facing colossal losses.

The huge losses may send a shock wave into the entire financial industry. It has been estimated that the six largest "too-big-to-fail" banks control $3.9 trillion in commodity derivatives contracts, those same gambling instruments that brought us the 2008 housing collapse. And a very large chunk of that amount is made up of oil derivatives. Combined with the huge flood of shale junk bonds on the market, the derivatives could initiate a bubble burst that could turn into a financial market implosion.

...There are also those who scratch their heads and ask, "Why did the TBTF banks push for a deletion of the Dodd-Frank provision now, instead of waiting for the friendlier Republican-controlled Congress to pass this legislation?" The only answer that seems to make sense, and explain their urgency, is that the collapse is imminent.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/28406-russia-blamed-us-taxpayers-on-the-hook-as-fracking-boom-collapses


 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
5. I used to be a big Thom Hartmann fan, but I don't buy anything he says any more.
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 10:49 PM
Jan 2015

Not since he affiliated with RT.

Stopped listening to his radio show on WCPT as soon as he affiliated with RT.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
6. His discussion got me interested, but the
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 11:08 PM
Jan 2015

Linked website is oil-price.net. I don't know of any affiliation between TH and that site.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Will collapse in oil caus...