Rec

He frightened White America because he spoke the truth.

(apologies to those who did, if I missed it.)

but nobody on the tv machine, as I recall. But I've grown increasingly less dependent on the tv machine, so maybe I missed somebody?

nobody in a public position--media or government--was willing to say he was right...cowardice and denial rule.

unfortunately President Obama had to repudiate him.

He can't be Obama's ex-pastor, 'cause we all know Obama's a Kenyan Muslin.

he's an atheist Muslim.

Not a tan suit!

This is why he poses such a unique threat to the American flag pin. It's that combination of qualities -- he is as weak and incapable as Jimminy Carter, yet as threatening and devious as Bigger Thomas -- that should scare all of us. Both Sean Hannity and Franz Fannon agreed on last night's "Fox News Alert" that this "Mr. Obama" (IF that's his real name, and I'll add that that's a mighty big "if&quot is injecting subliminal and coded messages of hatred into the masses' unconsciousness.

The key is the flag pin.

Trying to understand the teabggers is an exercise in futility.

specific communities in ways that have been devastating and the laws have been crafted to make sure certain communities suffer far more than others.

Unless you think Black people are just more likely to become drug addicts? Or drug dealers?

Your going to the one thing he said that you think you can prove is a CT, and ignoring everything else, tells us quite a bit about you.

far more reasonable and rational to believe that high school and college students were importing all the cocaine in the 1980s, etc? It seems a far more believable explanation to me.

Think about it: the government/ intelligence community doesn't have the resources needed to import all those millions of dollars worth of drugs. It has to be high school and college students.

Like we have the airplanes, cargo vessels, and security personnel and other logistic networks to ensure that narcotics could be distributed and sold throughout our communities...

"Unless you think Black people are just more likely to become drug addicts? Or drug dealers?

Your going to the one thing he said that you think you can prove is a CT, and ignoring everything else, tells us quite a bit about you."

that Wright said that might not be true.

This means YOU have an agenda, that is what this means.

Hillary has her ,proper, birthing papers. You know what I mean?

I'm guessing that you have no knowledge of the thousands of people who've been sitting in prisons for ten to twenty years, decades, and had their lives literally taken from them, due to this government's "War On Drugs".

I am deeply opposed to the war on drugs and other abuses of our criminal justice system.

rather than what Jeremiah Wright said about drugs in the USA.

That's why I asked you what you meant. Sorry for misunderstanding.

about the CIA introducing crack cocaine into black communities. (Of course, much of what Wright says about the war on drugs is true, but not the conspiracy theory.) The poster attacked me in a silly fashion and I invited them not to be so silly. They persisted and so I gave up because even though one can lead a horse to water (i.e., you can point out their silliness), you can't make them drink (i.e., you can't make them stop being silly).

is in any way wacky, nor has it ever been proven to be a conspiracy theory.

Given the record of what the CIA has gotten away with in this country, it's not that far of a stretch to investigate what role they play in the Prison Industrial Complex, is it?

that the CIA deliberately introduced crack cocaine into black neighborhoods to damage those neighborhoods. To be fair to Wright, in the quoted remarks he doesn't say exactly what theory he is endorsing.

He never proved nor even said that the CIA actually had distributed coke throughout black ghettos in the USA. What Webb proved was that cronies of the Nicaraguan Contras had used CIA planes to run drugs up into this country and he backed-up that proof with an abundance of verifiable evidence. It was our own government (with the eager assistance of various other "reputable" journalists) who inserted the nefarious "conspiracy theory" label onto Webb's extensive (now provable) investigation.

So, again, to be fair, I do not think that it's that much of a stretch to wonder (or investigate, and by that, I don't mean an investigation conducted by the very agency known for its dirty work) what exactly became of those drugs. Too bad that Webb's career (and his very life) was destroyed simply because of the nosing around that he did manage to accomplish.

"Released on April 13, 1989 the Kerry Committee report concluded that members of the U.S. State Department "who provided support for the Contras were involved in drug trafficking... and elements of the Contras themselves knowingly received financial and material assistance from drug traffickers.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking


Elements connected to the government have been involved in drug trafficking since WW2, and US elites for even longer than that. Remember the Opium Wars?

That was when rich brits, French and americans forced drugs on the Chinese with arms to solve their trade deficit, resulting in one of the highest addiction rates in history.

Though I'm not sure of that, at least, with poor people it will affect them more.

Black people are disproportionately among the poor.

There is evidence that it is true...and I have some personal knowledge that it is in fact the case...although it could only convince me because it is second hand.

The CIA may well have been complicit in drug deals used to finance the Contras in Nicaragua, but that is a far cry from deliberately introducing crack cocaine into black communities.

Here is how it worked as I understood it.
They shipped arms to the contras on planes and brought back coke in the planes...then what did they do with it?
They then used it to pay off criminal gangs for domestic work they did for them...the case I know about secondhand was a motor cycle gang in south Florida called The Outlaws, who then sold the coke to dealers in the inner cities.

It was a win win situation...the financed their operations and got criminal gangs to do dirty domestic work for them.

just curious

That demand exists in every poor community with people in despare...the market is always there.
No cigarette company does not makes people smoke, they just supply the market.

it's just assholes making money

that members of the U.S. State Department "who provided support for the Contras were involved in drug trafficking... and elements of the Contras themselves knowingly received financial and material assistance from drug traffickers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking


the dope pushers are never to blame; that's what libertarians say. it's all about people's 'free choice'.....

And by that I mean the people at the top...who all wear suits and are squeaky clean.

The criminal element is not averse to making money off of vice don't you know?
The real crime I am talking about it is the one our government participated in.

yeah, win win indeed.

and now they're doing the same thing to the suburbs. happening where I live.

And real estate is where the smart money goes.

Remember the medical experiments done on black people.

Documented, well researched...and ignored.

and distance himself from him for political expediency.

BTW, I just learned that Wright was part of the Naval medical team that attended LBJ when he had heart surgery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jeremiah_Wright_as_a_Marine_Medic_Tending_to_Pres_Lyndon_Johnson.jpg


In 1961 Wright left college and joined the United States Marine Corps and became part of the 2nd Marine Division attaining the rank of private first class. In 1963, after two years of service, Wright joined the United States Navy and entered the Corpsman School at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center.[11][12] Wright was then trained as a cardiopulmonary technician at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with care of President Lyndon B. Johnson (see photo of Wright caring for Johnson after his 1966 surgery). Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House Physician, Vice Admiral Burkley, personally wrote Wright a letter of thanks on behalf of the United States President.[13][14][15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

that linked to posts on a far right website where people were bragging about joining DU and posting the fringiest stuff they could think of just to see who they could get to bite. You know: Loonie left kind of stuff.

It was an interesting thread.

Do you think Jeremiah Wright is loonie?

He's certainly not someone I would ever take any philosophical advice from. I have no respect for him.

You might try and ask yourself why he would say those things and why so many African Americans would agree....

I mean you would if you were predisposed to think a certain way, or something like that

He has a fringe following at most.

How many Democratic party leaders do you recall embracing Wright and his lunatic rants? Like I said, he has a fringe following at best. When is the last time you saw him on television giving advice to Democrats? He is almost universally recognized as a poisonous influence.

I'm a big proponent of both aspects of freedom of speech. He is free to say anything he wants, and I'm free to ignore him.

How do you reconcile that in your own mind?

I'm sort of an "innocent until proven guilty" guy.

... more people in prison than any other country?

You deny that we supported apartheid in South Africa, and still support Israel?

You deny that there's racism used against President Obama?


Oh, and about the drug claim ...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

Gary Webb was a gifted, creative writer, but his articles would hardly stand up in court. Scandals do sell newspapers, though.

Sorry, but the whole "CIA brought crack to the ghettoes" thing has never been credible in my mind.

As to the rest:

Yes, we lock up too many people. We need to stop prosecuting people for non-violent drug crimes. My issue with that particular paragraph is the above-mentioned CIA ghetto crack theory.

In my opinion, we don't support Israel nearly enough. Every time there is a terrorist attack against Israelis, we have people crawling out of the woodwork to say "that's terrible, but..." and then try to explain away why Israel deserves it.

Of course there are racist attacks against President Obama, but to claim, as Wright, that all criticism of Obama are the result of racism is pretty one dimensional.

As for the whole "God damn America" meme, Wright knew it was inflammatory and histrionic. That was his whole point. In my opinion, it was a "Praise the Lord, pass the collection plate" move, and it certainly got Wright the attention he craved.

Anyway, gotta run. I'll be back later.

is that what you would have liked?



I KNOW that is what some (maybe even some in this thread) would have wanted, I bet...

Republicans never back away from their 'beliefs', yet Dems seem to feel the need to do so, EVEN WHEN they RIGHT.

So why did Dems not go all out to defend someone WHO WAS RIGHT?

It the same mindset that creates the white Jesus. No f-ing way would a black jesus save white folk and get them to heaven to gasp a BLACK God, The Jesus's Daddy. well I guess God could be white then his Momma could have been black or maybe God was into cuckolding and an accident happened who really knows! Luckly for me it is all mythology.

If Jesus was depicted as anything other then white in Western Europe, Christianity, would have never taken hold and never would have made it here in da USA.

Course I am just an old white dude so what the fuck do I know,

...of Jesus prior to then. 2nd-4th century ones. You'll be shocked to hear that they ALL have the ethnic features and dress of those who drew them. i.e. look more Roman if from Rome. The Coptic church came into being in the 500's and followers were almost entirely from Egypt and North Africa. They broke with Constantinople over whether Jesus' was mostly human while among us or mostly divine. It was a very serious question and though the Emperor tried to put an end to the argument, it just wouldn't die and there was a schism.

Here's a Jesus from the 4th century (300's). Nearly two hundred years before that Coptic drawing.

Black people who are really into Jesus.

Jesus was middle eastern, though, not European looking as depicted in paintings.

White Jesus is the predominate one when he is forced upon folk via the sword, whip or gun, not because of any accuracy or anything.

But black people have been free to believe as they wished for a long time. And some of them are very religious Christians. Take Wright, he's a minister. His entire parish.

And the Clintons along with the media made that happen.

At the time I thought so too.

I still do.

That controversy produced one of President Obama's best and most important speeches ever.
I only wish there had been more action about these grievances and injustices.
I would have so loved to see a concerted effort to educate the populace, even if piecemeal, by our President.

White America just wasn't ready for the mirror he held up to them, something I said at the time.

"God damn America for treating its citizens as less than human.
God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

middle class white people.

...advantaged by his detractors because of the color of his skin.

I think you are equating disadvantage with racial identity.

and his campaign. When one looks deeply into the life of Wright that is so much good that he and his church at the time did for the Chicago community. He also provided many vicarious experiences to those educators who will never travel to foreign countries with information about his many studies. All that hate given to him and what for? The media were actually calling his parishioners and hiding in the services to hear any little tidbit that could extrapolated a million times. Free press...you gotta love it?

This old atheist agrees wholeheartedly

God Dam the men who did these things in America's name. America is alive and well in its constitution and in the hearts and minds of men and women who still live by the principles enbodied in that document. Ther are people who have subverted this nation for their own purposes, but they are not America. We need, however, to stop mere words of anger and take our nation back from them.

population and theft of life and labor from Africans kidnapped and forcibly brought here against their will.

Has any appropriate or proportional penance been done for either of these two great crimes, any meaningful reparations been made?

So, yeah, God Damn America.

I agree those were horrible crimes, but how would suggest rectifying them to any meaningful and constructive end?

At the time when Rev Wright was made that scary black minister, the noise from it all was loud and blinding, you couldn't get a real thought across. And no one really wanted to hear what you had to say about him. Rev Wrights church was in my neighborhood, and Fox news was always there.

Not sure I entirely agree with the 3rd paragraph. Hillary is a woman, so she can't be out looking for a cab at night. Obama admittedly raised by a very middle class white family - he's making it sound more like the experience of poor black people.

Has a good point about 911, and saying it near them was brave.

Obama admittedly raised by a very middle class white family

Dreams from My Father.

And the book that is a Biography of his mother, Anne Dunham.

Obama's mother was quite an unusual woman. An intellectual who had him living in Indonesia for a while, and sent him back to his grandparents because she was concerned about his education.

There's a class picture of him at school in Hawaii - the rest of the class is white.

I take it back: the rest of the class is not black:

I've got the book. Never finished reading it, because it was back during the time I was debating having my cataract surgery, and was (scared) and having trouble seeing. I've got a lot of reading to catch up on.

America could not handle him...maybe they should start visiting black churches, because this is nothing different than what goes on every Sunday..

Obama threw him under the bus. If he didn't, we'd of had a few more wars with McCain and have lived with the fear of a possible Palin presidency. He sold a little bit of his soul. His treatment of Wright and his coziness with Wall Street will always be his biggest negatives when we look back as far as I'm concerned.

I watched every video posted of him and it's obvious why Obama
wanted distance from this man.

themselves from him.

Truth about race in America is painful and few tell it.

great deal, I knew him and of his congregation at Trinity UCC long before I heard of Obama, and Obama being a member of that church was a strong selling point for me when first checking Obama out.
It was sad to me that Wright got kicked to the curb and Obama started hanging out with all those nasty homophobic preachers that that subjected LGBT people to so much extremely denigrating hate speech.