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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPope, in Philippines, says same-sex marriage threatens family
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Appealing to the traditional values of Filipino Catholic families, Pope Francis made one of his strongest calls as pope against movements to recognize same-sex unions as marriage. "The family is also threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage," the pope said Jan. 16, hours after warning that Philippine society was "tempted by confusing presentations of sexuality, marriage and the family."
"As you know, these realities are increasingly under attack from powerful forces which threaten to disfigure God's plan for creation and betray the very values which have inspired and shaped all that is best in your culture," he said. Pope Francis made his remarks at a Mass in Manila's cathedral and then at a meeting with families in the city's Mall of Asia Arena.
At the latter event, the pope called on his listeners to resist "ideological colonization that threatens the family." The Vatican spokesman, Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, said later that the pope was referring to same-sex marriage, among other practices.
The pope's comments came less than a week after a speech to Vatican diplomats in which he criticized "legislation which benefits various forms of cohabitation rather than adequately supporting the family for the welfare of society as a whole," saying that such legislation had contributed to a widespread sense of the family as "disposable."
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500200.htm
I'll say that I swiped this from the Religion group, considering the Pope's other recent statement, I think he should duck. LOL, just a joke!
Chemisse
(30,817 posts)But this sure isn't one of them!
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)'Who am I to judge' was one bit of a long and fairly nasty talk about 'the gay lobby' and he was talking about celibates who are 'theoretically gay' but are in fact celibate. It was basically very awful and all of his boosters pretended it was wonderful because they are not honest and don't give a shit about LGBT people or our rights. That's just how it is.
The religious and others just expect us to endure endless tirades out of their nasty leaders while we are told we must never 'disrespect' their precious faiths.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Turbineguy
(37,372 posts)Allowing Wall Street to steal our pensions threatens families. Not having affordable medical care threatens families. The list goes on.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)"When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?
People seem to forget the first part.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)for insulting their mother.
If my good friend says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch, Francis said
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/pope-charlie-hebdo-limits-free-expression-28240968
I hope one of 'em takes him up on the offer.
MANative
(4,112 posts)If the church loosely defines as family as two married people who procreate, this is not a problem. What? Does he think that LGBT people can't figure out ways to have children? (Then again, they don't like all that science stuff very much.) Even if they don't, any couple who love each other and are legally or morally committed are easily defined as "family."
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)any number of kids, but it HAS to be a man and woman. They even go so far as to use scare quotes around marriage and family when it comes to same sex families, because they don't consider those valid at all, some even go so far as to say its farcical.
MANative
(4,112 posts)When one has a circle of friends, 75+% of whom are members of the LGBT community, one's perspective becomes vastly broader! The definition of "ideal" should not be dictated by an antiquated, entirely homogeneous group. So glad I got out when I did. My life is immeasurably better since.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Perhaps now the 'believers' will stop trying to pawn this guy off as some pro-gay liberal.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','Infindel B',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal] This pope has said hate-filled shit in the past, and the francophiles ignore it or try to hand wave it away.
They will do so again a week from now. There is too much emotional investment in this pope for them to accept that he is not the progressive they so desperately want him to be.
Otherwise his praise would have died out when it was shown that he called the LGBTQ community disordered or when he said that we should not be allowed to raise kids.[/font]
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,592 posts)I mean I really like many of the things he's been saying lately, and the question I 'd like to ask him about this is; do you think Jesus would say the same thing?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)wundermaus
(1,673 posts)With all due respect to the leader of the Catholic faith, a family unit based on a loving, nurturing, caring relationship is the foundation of any healthy society. I am not gay but I have enough common sense to know this from my interactions with gay families. Step outside your pope mobile and spend some time with gay families, your holiness. You will find for certain that love is the common threat that holds us all together in the embrace of the holy spirit.
Skittles
(153,212 posts)why do you feel the need to respect someone who is an open homophobe and misogynist?
wundermaus
(1,673 posts)I want to save him from his ignorance , not condemn him for his ignorance.
We are all imperfect and deserving of compassion, love and respect.
I respect a person that speaks honestly even if I disagree with them.
He occupies a position in our civilization of great influence.
By branding him a homophobe and misogynist we stoop down instead of lifting up.
Skittles
(153,212 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 31, 2015, 08:32 PM - Edit history (1)
exactly how long does it take these assholes to evolve?
And when asked if a woman might someday head a Vatican office, he joked that "pastors often wind up under the authority of their housekeeper!"
wundermaus
(1,673 posts)If only that were possible...
I'm willing to admit that I may be completely wrong about the guy and his religion stuff.
Really, what do we truly know for sure about anything?
I'll bet you though, in a few thousand years, what you and I think will have completely vanished in consequence.
As for now, though... our days are number.
Don't waste any.
Good Luck.
Skittles
(153,212 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)A swinging noose
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)If he keeps this up, he does not understand that people of good will are able to see
though his contradictions?
Disfiguring God's plan for creation is one hell of a statement, one no one should forget.
I'm not a christian yet this is a man who is suppose to lead a billion people, he sounds as ignorant as one could be.
Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #23)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I would call that kind of homophobic hate speech pretty fucking judgmental.
But I guess he gets a pass because he claims that's what his god wants him to say.
Fuck him.
Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #31)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The same religious leader wants to strip lgbt people of their human rights.
Why does he deserve more respect than any other bigot?
Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #35)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
Panich52
(5,829 posts)Epitome of hypocracy to declare himself anti-same-sex marriage after demoting bishop for his anti-lgbt stance.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The Pope has never, ever said anything even close to pro gay or pro equality. Even the things people quote are just excerpts from longer, more nasty speeches. 'Who am I to judge' he said in the midst of an attack on what he calls 'the gay lobby'.
ann---
(1,933 posts)He cannot publicly teach dogma that would be against the church of which he is the leader.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Are you really defending him?
Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #33)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
Behind the Aegis
(54,007 posts)The past few weeks have been really eye-opening, and the next week will be as well, as previously discussed.
I am so glad you are posting on a more regular basis!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Frankie makes it his mission to take away my reproductive rights and your human rights and we're the bad guys because we publicly expose his agenda on DU?
Seriously???
Yeah, most of the time I'm in a lot of physical pain so I have to take breaks, but I'm kinda sorta back, babee!
Panich52
(5,829 posts)Here's just 1 story on it:
It's Finally Official - Pope Francis Demotes Highest-Ranking US Cardinal Over LGBT Issues - dailykos
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/10/1343748/-It-s-Official-Pope-Francis-Demotes-Higest-Ranking-US-Cardinal-Over-LBGT-Issues
Behind the Aegis
(54,007 posts)The title makes claims which aren't supported in the article. It is supposition on the part of the blogger. The Crux states:
Talking to Spanish magazine Vida Nueva, he said that many Catholics feel a bit of seasickness, because it seems to them that the ship of the Church has lost its compass. The cause of this disorientation must be put aside. We have the constant tradition of the Church, the teachings, the liturgy, morals. The catechism does not change.
Refusing to be labeled as the leader of the opposition of Pope Francis reform, Burke then spoke to the Catholic portal Aleteia.
He said that, in his opinion, many are misinterpreting the popes emphasis on going to the peripheries as a way of chasing after the culture.
In other words, that somehow we no longer have confidence in the teaching of the faith and in the life of the Church, and so we go after those very deficient situations in society as if we have nothing to offer, and nothing to say, he said.
It sounds, to me, the demotion was due to "talking smack about the boss." Is it possible his anti-gay stance is also a reason? Sure, but given the number of other cardinals with similar attitudes, it doesn't lend much to it being the primary or even big reason to his reassignment.
Panich52
(5,829 posts)While dissin the boss' authority might have been one rational, and while Pope holds to homosexuality as 'wrong,' the demoted bishop broke w/ his boss' supposed basic message -- tolerance. Bishop's screeds were too hateful f/ this pope's message. So... He was demoted because of his lgbt stance.
Behind the Aegis
(54,007 posts)Given there is no official word (I haven't been able to find anything), it is more logical to assume his demotion was due to insubordination, not LGBT issues, especially given you have just reconfirmed the Pope ain't too big on the homosexual issue.
Response to Humanist_Activist (Original post)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
thucythucy
(8,089 posts)What threatens families is misogyny, abuse, poverty, environmental degradation and climate change, war and militarism....
Two people committed to loving each other shouldn't, and in reality doesn't, threaten anybody.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)destroyed hundreds of thousands of indigenous families in Central and South America.
ann---
(1,933 posts)outta this unkind thread.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I suppose he means same sex marriage, but have to conclude that is what he is referring to from context.
theboss
(10,491 posts)You aren't supposed to bang if you aren't married......
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I even had a Francis defender tell me that homophobia isn't as bad as racism and that homophobia is just fear of gay people.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','Infindel B',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I...ah....
Words fail me.
Hatred of a people is hatred of a people. To say that they aren't the same is idiotic.
What are people like that doing on this site... [/font]
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)"As far as your first question, homophobic means fear of gays. Opposing equal rights for gays is a legal matter and it may or may not have anything to do with a fear of gays. Second question: No, homophobia does not equal racism. Racism means superiority over another race. homophobia means fear of gays. Two different things. But both are civil rights issues."
Pretty unbelievable, isn't it?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ann---
(1,933 posts)supports the teaching of the church of which he is the head, does NOT mean he is a homophobe.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Let's look at the definition:
ho·mo·pho·bia noun \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
Now let's review those comments with that definition in mind:
The new pontiff is being hailed as a fresh choice, but there's nothing new about his opposition to gay rights
Pope Francis has been praised for his humility (he picks up his own luggage!), his acceptance of other faiths (he wont insult the Prophet Mohammed in public addresses!) and his precedent shattering name choice (more humility!).
But the pontiff who is being hailed as a new direction for the Catholic Church is the same-old brand of theological conservative who opposes the ordination of women, abortion and the fundamental rights of gays and lesbians.
In fact, then-Cardinal Jose Bergoglio was a major force against the 2010 move to legalize same-sex marriage in his native Argentina. Though he ultimately failed, Bergoglio used the full weight of the church to crush the measure.
Here, a collection of his very worst quotes on the issue.
1. A Senate vote on gay marriage is a destructive pretension against the plan of God
From a letter to the Carmelite Sisters of Buenos Aires on the perils of marriage equality:
Lets not be naïve, were not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.
2. Gay marriage will destroy the family
More from the same letter to the four monasteries of Argentina:
The Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children.
3. Gay parenting is a rejection of Gods law engraved in our hearts
Again:
At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of Gods law engraved in our hearts.
4. The political struggle against marriage equality is war
And finally:
The bill will be discussed in the Senate after July 13. Look at San Jose, Maria, Child and ask them [to] fervently defend Argentinas family at this time. [Be reminded] what God told his people in a time of great anguish: This war is not yours but Gods. May they succor, defend and join God in this war.
5. Gay adoption is discrimination against children
According to the National Catholic Reporter, Francis called gay adoption a form of discrimination against children. A comment that resulted in a public rebuke from Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, who said that Francis remarks suggested medieval times and the Inquisition.
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_worst_quotes/
And most recently his comments that gay marriage tries to destroy the family and comparing gender theory to Nazi propaganda :
Catholic leaders often use the term "gender theory" to refer to ideas that question or deny the God-given nature of sex differences and the complementarity of man and woman as the basis of the family.
"Why do I say ideological colonization? Because they use a people's need as an opportunity to come in and impose their will on children. But this is nothing new. The dictatorships of the last century did the same thing; they came in with their doctrine. Think of the Balilla. Think of the Hitler Youth," the pope said.
The Balilla was a youth organization instituted by Italy's fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini.
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500255.htm
Just so we're clear on this, ann, the issue isn't whether or not the pope is homophobic since his prolific use of hate speech demonizing lgbt people proves you're wrong about that, it's about his supporters on DU.
Because I'm going to bring this up every time Pope Gays Are Destroying Families gets praised for his progressiveness here, and I want to know just where his fans draw the line.
Do you have a problem with the things he said about lgbt people and marriage equality?
ann---
(1,933 posts)with my thoughts and I am not his "fan." I am simply stating that I don't believe the man who is head of the Catholic Church HATES anybody - not even homosexuals - (which is what "homophobic" implies) just because he expresses himself on the dogma of his faith.
I don't have a problem with ANYONE'S free expression of their ideas. Do you? Is that why you are questioning mine?
Also, I didn't see ANYONE here supporting the pope's comments that you posted above. Not even me.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Why is "Pope a Catholic" - and hence defends Catholic doctrine, wicked and stupid as it may be - newsworthy?
Yes, he's made some liberal-sounding noises in the past. He's still the head of the Catholic Church, with all that implies.
theboss
(10,491 posts)I got nothin'
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I'm willing to wager that he'll not suggest they should go out and wash anyone's feet. JusSayin.