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kpete

(71,996 posts)
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:16 AM Jan 2015

Charles M. Blow: "The Scenario I Have Always Dreaded - Yale Police Stopped My Son At Gunpoint"

Saturday evening, I got a call that no parent wants to get. It was my son calling from college — he’s a third-year student at Yale. He had been accosted by a campus police officer, at gunpoint!

..........

This is the scenario I have always dreaded: my son at the wrong end of a gun barrel, face down on the concrete. I had always dreaded the moment that we would share stories about encounters with the police in which our lives hung in the balance, intergenerational stories of joining the inglorious “club.”

When that moment came, I was exceedingly happy I had talked to him about how to conduct himself if a situation like this ever occurred. Yet I was brewing with sadness and anger that he had to use that advice.

I am reminded of what I have always known, but what some would choose to deny: that there is no way to work your way out — earn your way out — of this sort of crisis. In these moments, what you’ve done matters less than how you look.



the rest:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/charles-m-blow-says-yale-police-held-son-gunpoint
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/26/opinion/charles-blow-at-yale-the-police-detained-my-son.html?smid=tw-share
73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Charles M. Blow: "The Scenario I Have Always Dreaded - Yale Police Stopped My Son At Gunpoint" (Original Post) kpete Jan 2015 OP
K&R but the 2 links sortof ran together! BumRushDaShow Jan 2015 #1
thanks for kpete Jan 2015 #3
Thanks and reading now! BumRushDaShow Jan 2015 #4
jesus, this country can really suck. marym625 Jan 2015 #2
Hopefully you aren't pretending these types of things pipoman Jan 2015 #6
pretending? marym625 Jan 2015 #7
You have to excuse him, I'm sure being a cop apologist is hard to do on DU. Rex Jan 2015 #36
oh. marym625 Jan 2015 #39
Yeah, America has RABID racist assholes, many are cops, but many are not. NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #44
I read you loud and clear marym625 Jan 2015 #55
lol...didn't bother to check my journal before lying about me eh? pipoman Jan 2015 #61
How does that make anything better?? bvf Jan 2015 #8
Wow...you've really read a lot into this, no? pipoman Jan 2015 #62
Wow. No, I didn't. bvf Jan 2015 #69
Why would you even think, let alone, SAY THAT????? onecent Jan 2015 #9
It's a lot like "Cops are killing black folks at a disproportionate rate when compared to the amount Ed Suspicious Jan 2015 #29
Because I tire of people acting as though this is somehow unique to the US... pipoman Jan 2015 #65
Hopefully, you're not pretending that addressing a concern for A denies a concern or knowledge of B. LanternWaste Jan 2015 #34
I read it both times and it is pretty ambiguous. ... pipoman Jan 2015 #63
Hopefully you are pretending this should have happened the way it did. Rex Jan 2015 #35
You really are seeing things not there.... pipoman Jan 2015 #64
I many countries, no gun would be drawn in such circumstances Vattel Jan 2015 #45
We claim to be better than 'around the globe'. We're not. And it's getting worse. sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #48
I agree, it is getting worse, with unwarranted data collection, pipoman Jan 2015 #60
Damn straight it is. DeSwiss Jan 2015 #66
From the editorial BumRushDaShow Jan 2015 #5
fit the description.... BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2015 #11
Description was black college age man wearing black jacket and red and white hat joeglow3 Jan 2015 #12
And given that Yale is just about lily white BumRushDaShow Jan 2015 #14
Not entirely lily white (according to 2013-2014 statistics) frazzled Jan 2015 #15
It is BumRushDaShow Jan 2015 #22
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #31
LOL, did you just azmom Jan 2015 #38
No BumRushDaShow Jan 2015 #50
Thanks for the link azmom Jan 2015 #51
What About The Gun? ProfessorGAC Jan 2015 #18
That does seem an issue sarisataka Jan 2015 #24
If you read the whole article, he's not upset that his son was detained... Pacifist Patriot Jan 2015 #21
yes, this. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2015 #28
Yeah, I too question why the need for that. joeglow3 Jan 2015 #30
Thank you. Though I don't understand why that needed to be pointed out when it is Number23 Jan 2015 #52
The question is: why did they approach him with gun drawn and not just ask for ID pnwmom Jan 2015 #42
Did they know the name of the suspect? joeglow3 Jan 2015 #56
He was a STUDENT legally allowed to be there, and they were CAMPUS POLICE. pnwmom Jan 2015 #57
I agree with the gun part, but not the rest joeglow3 Jan 2015 #67
Why should a person with a student ID be forced to lie down on the ground pnwmom Jan 2015 #58
You are correct about the gun joeglow3 Jan 2015 #68
Well, probably wouldn't have stopped him if the description was "white" kjones Jan 2015 #32
Must have been terrifying matt819 Jan 2015 #10
K&R! I'm glad the young man wasn't shot. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #13
Draw gun, intimidate, ask questions later PumpkinAle Jan 2015 #16
Tragic, tragic ... and but for the grace of you-know-who frazzled Jan 2015 #17
I am so glad this young man knew what to do and wasn't shot!!! FourScore Jan 2015 #19
K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #20
Man if that was my son I would be fuming to... trumad Jan 2015 #23
Holy $#*! KamaAina Jan 2015 #25
The tragedy is that he can never be free of racial profiling. riqster Jan 2015 #26
So today on college campuses TNNurse Jan 2015 #27
And just to be double-safe, make sure the escort isn't female Demeter Jan 2015 #40
the talk ... napkinz Jan 2015 #33
This is really messed up. So sorry. Glad the young man survived the encounter. McCamy Taylor Jan 2015 #37
There is a deep sickness in this Country rbrnmw Jan 2015 #41
According to about 60 MILLION Of us the deep sickness is you liberal black racists picking NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #46
right rbrnmw Jan 2015 #49
K&R nt 99th_Monkey Jan 2015 #43
If the reports of the bruglar did not say that he was armed, then drawing a gun is ridiculous. Vattel Jan 2015 #47
<shrug> I'm white and have had the exact same thing happen to me. ARMYofONE Jan 2015 #53
The exact same thing? Were you a student with a student ID and stopped pnwmom Jan 2015 #59
At a fundamental level, yes, it was the same thing. ARMYofONE Jan 2015 #70
It makes a fundamental difference that this occurred on a private college campus. pnwmom Jan 2015 #71
Okay, fair point, but not related to my post or your response, really. ARMYofONE Jan 2015 #72
My point is that if the Yale student had been white, he is unlikely to have been treated pnwmom Jan 2015 #73
Was there reason to believe the suspect was armed? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #54
 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
6. Hopefully you aren't pretending these types of things
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:01 AM
Jan 2015

are somehow American instead of human conditions. ..happening around the globe. ...always have....

marym625

(17,997 posts)
7. pretending?
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:08 AM
Jan 2015

No, I'm not pretending anything. We're not talking about around the globe. We're talking at an Ivy League school in the US.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
36. You have to excuse him, I'm sure being a cop apologist is hard to do on DU.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jan 2015

Yeah, that was about the lamest excuse I've seen on here about defending dumbass cops. The cop could have asked questions and then sent the young man on his way. Totally wrong to pull a gun on him and order him to the ground.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
39. oh.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 03:02 PM
Jan 2015

Didn't know if that was a troll, a cop apologist, a racist or just a very confused person. Thanks for the clarification.

Yep, horribly lame. If cops are going to start pulling guns on anyone walking down the street, we are going to have some serious issues. Worse than we already have.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
44. Yeah, America has RABID racist assholes, many are cops, but many are not.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:28 PM
Jan 2015

Many, very many RABID racist assholes.

Lots of em, everywhere.

More than we want to admit.

I mean what is worse a country where racists are everywhere you turn or a country where many of the POLICE are said racists.

Crazy, eh.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
55. I read you loud and clear
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:17 PM
Jan 2015

And yes, I know. I was being polite. Because we both know, we can be baited.

It's disgusting. Just disgusting

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
8. How does that make anything better??
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:31 AM
Jan 2015

Are you suggesting that this is somehow acceptable?

Cripes! Somebody relates a story of physical danger to a close relative at the hands of law enforcement gone nuts and your response is to say, in effect, "this happens everywhere"?

Just shrug it off if you like. Don't expect people to follow suit.


Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
29. It's a lot like "Cops are killing black folks at a disproportionate rate when compared to the amount
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jan 2015

of white folks killed by cops. Cops should stop doing that." the analogous reply - "Well, black folks are killing each other. Black on black crime is bad."

It's a response that I'm not used to seeing from left leaning citizens, but am very familiar with coming from the right.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
65. Because I tire of people acting as though this is somehow unique to the US...
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:16 PM
Jan 2015

Nothing more...feel free to see my journal if you wish to see my opinion of the larger issue. ..

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
34. Hopefully, you're not pretending that addressing a concern for A denies a concern or knowledge of B.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:38 PM
Jan 2015

Hopefully, you're not pretending that specifically addressing a concern for A denies a concern or knowledge of B.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
35. Hopefully you are pretending this should have happened the way it did.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jan 2015

What's wrong? Can't admit that the cop didn't need to pull a gun on the son? Or make him get on the ground with his hands spread out? You pretend that is normal, when all the cop had to do was stop and ask him questions.

Total overkill with the gun and orders - of course you know this, but are making a very lame excuse for the officer.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
60. I agree, it is getting worse, with unwarranted data collection,
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:55 PM
Jan 2015

Police procedures that have gone far to the right and is way overdue for a correction, the list is long. Some in these parts like to think that this is somehow unique to the US....it isn't, and in comparison to the rest of the world is comparable with those in the rest of the first world and better than many. ...because the US is controlled by humans...

This kind of abuse of power is a human condition....always has been, and must be politically battled by the public. ..another great thing allowed in our country

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
66. Damn straight it is.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:19 PM
Jan 2015
- Remember? We're the dumb fucks who give guns to idiots and people with mental problems.

BumRushDaShow

(129,090 posts)
5. From the editorial
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:42 AM
Jan 2015
”She explained students had called about a burglary suspect who fit my son’s description"


 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
12. Description was black college age man wearing black jacket and red and white hat
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:40 AM
Jan 2015

If his son fit all of that, then I see little to get worked up about - his son fit a detailed description, was momentarily detained, quickly determined to not be the suspect and released.

The questions are:

1. Did he fit any of the clothing descriptions or did he just happen to be a black 20 year old?

2. Was he roughed up while detained?

BumRushDaShow

(129,090 posts)
14. And given that Yale is just about lily white
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:51 AM
Jan 2015

if the "description" was "white college age man wearing black jacket and red and white hat" and a big crowd of say, white fraternity members wearing those colors were roaming around campus, would the whole crowd been rounded up?

I doubt it (havng gone to an almost all-white university and seen it first hand - even when these white roaming bands were doing massive damage to campus property).

Unfortunately the whole "fit the description" thing is a fiasco because without further details, black males are automatic targets where cops may claim that they ditched the clothing and other nonsensical excuses. It's easier for them to just round up any black male they see because there are no repercussions (unless their daddy works for the NYT).

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
15. Not entirely lily white (according to 2013-2014 statistics)
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 12:04 PM
Jan 2015

It's 62% white.
8% African American
8% Hispanic
17% Asian
2% Native American or Alaska Native

http://oir.yale.edu/yale-factsheet

BumRushDaShow

(129,090 posts)
22. It is
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 12:59 PM
Jan 2015

when you are part of that "8%" African American population. But I will note that anything over 20% minority is considered a "threat" to the "majority" in many white communities.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
31. LOL ...
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jan 2015

Which gives me reason for hope! ... Not too long ago, anything over 5% was considered the "threating" tipping point.

BumRushDaShow

(129,090 posts)
50. No
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:13 PM
Jan 2015

there are actually sociological studies out there that show what they call "tipping points" in communities. Below that %, the minority is not considered a "threat". Once the percentage starts approaching the "tipping point", all hell breaks out and/or the "majority" population picks up and leaves.

The whole paper linked to appears to be here as a PDF.

sarisataka

(18,663 posts)
24. That does seem an issue
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 01:18 PM
Jan 2015

with the given description of the suspect, a drawn weapon sounds excessive.

I also have issue with the cop not asking for an ID until after first telling him he could go. That should have been the first thing to happen; makes me wonder how experienced the officer is.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,653 posts)
21. If you read the whole article, he's not upset that his son was detained...
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 12:22 PM
Jan 2015

He's upset because of the manner of the detention. What was the need for a drawn gun when the description/complaints didn't cite anything about an armed suspect?

Number23

(24,544 posts)
52. Thank you. Though I don't understand why that needed to be pointed out when it is
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:26 PM
Jan 2015

so obvious to anyone that's even half read the Blow article.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
42. The question is: why did they approach him with gun drawn and not just ask for ID
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 03:56 PM
Jan 2015

right away? Why did they keep him there for minutes when a 2 second look at the ID could have ended all this?

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
57. He was a STUDENT legally allowed to be there, and they were CAMPUS POLICE.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:13 PM
Jan 2015

Campus police aren't supposed to draw their guns on students just for walking across campus, no matter how many robberies have been reported.

His student ID would show them exactly where to find him if they needed him. So all they should have done is take down his name and number and get back to him if they needed to follow up for some reason.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
67. I agree with the gun part, but not the rest
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:11 AM
Jan 2015

College kids rape every day. College kids steal every day. There have been public cases of college kids murdering. Thus, showing he was a college kid wouldn't have done shit by itself to prove he didn't commit any crimes.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
58. Why should a person with a student ID be forced to lie down on the ground
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:16 PM
Jan 2015

simply because someone else reported a robbery suspect who might have resembled him? Why did he have to lie on the ground? Why couldn't the police have looked at his ID and then questioned him STANDING UP? Why didn't they quickly let him go while they looked for more likely suspects? They would have known, from the ID, exactly where to find him.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
68. You are correct about the gun
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:12 AM
Jan 2015

However, like I said below, all your other points are bull shit.

kjones

(1,053 posts)
32. Well, probably wouldn't have stopped him if the description was "white"
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jan 2015

haha

Though seriously, I'm a white guy and I've been stopped
not once, not twice, but three times because I "fit a
description" and/or "looked like someone with a warrant
out on them." Twice in a car and once on the street.
Perhaps I just naturally look suspicious. I'm going with
the theory that I have an evil twin though.

You know, I just got a thought. I've taken quite a lot of
Psych classes and seminars in my life, and I just remembered
something about recognition. People recognize individuals
of their own race (whatever the race) easier than
members of other races. It's just the way it is generally.
One has to wonder what effects that has on policing.
The "you guys all look the same think" is a racist
punchline, but there's a little nugget of statistical
truth there (worst kind of truth), in that people seem
slower to recognize people of other races. It's just
something I read quite a while back about recognition,
so I don't know what the latest is on it.

matt819

(10,749 posts)
10. Must have been terrifying
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:15 AM
Jan 2015

So, one of the questions that I can't wait for an answer to is whether there was a similarity between the suspect and Tahj Blow, other than them both being black.

I think the equally large problem is the fact that the campus police officer's first response was to pull his gun. Yes, being a police officer can be dangerous. But given the information they had about the burglary suspect, I wonder whether this was the right move. I'm afraid all the police apologists here are going to say it is very necessary because you never know. But I have to believe that there's another way.

PumpkinAle

(1,210 posts)
16. Draw gun, intimidate, ask questions later
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 12:07 PM
Jan 2015

..... if the (black) person hasn't been shot because of some perceived resistance.

This is becoming more the norm for police forces everywhere.

Truly disgusting.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
17. Tragic, tragic ... and but for the grace of you-know-who
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 12:07 PM
Jan 2015

this young man did not become another Michael Brown.

From the op-ed:

Now, don’t get me wrong: If indeed my son matched the description of a suspect, I would have had no problem with him being questioned appropriately. School is his community, his home away from home, and he would have appreciated reasonable efforts to keep it safe. The stop is not the problem; the method of the stop is the problem.

Why was a gun drawn first? Why was he not immediately told why he was being detained? Why not ask for ID first?

What if my son had panicked under the stress, having never had a gun pointed at him before, and made what the officer considered a “suspicious” movement? Had I come close to losing him? Triggers cannot be unpulled. Bullets cannot be called back.



FourScore

(9,704 posts)
19. I am so glad this young man knew what to do and wasn't shot!!!
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 12:12 PM
Jan 2015

I feel so sad when I read such stories.

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
23. Man if that was my son I would be fuming to...
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 01:11 PM
Jan 2015

Gun, trigger, accidental sudden movement, dead son.

Fucking scary.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
25. Holy $#*!
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 01:22 PM
Jan 2015

Yale police never, ever behaved like that in my day (mid-'80s)! In fact, they would sometimes warn students of upcoming drug raids by the New Haven PD.

riqster

(13,986 posts)
26. The tragedy is that he can never be free of racial profiling.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 01:29 PM
Jan 2015

Not until and unless this country changes. A LOT.

TNNurse

(6,927 posts)
27. So today on college campuses
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 01:29 PM
Jan 2015

Young women need an escort to prevent rape and young black men need a white escort to keep the cops from pulling a gun?

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
46. According to about 60 MILLION Of us the deep sickness is you liberal black racists picking
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:33 PM
Jan 2015

on innocent white guys.

Innocent white people like this


 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
47. If the reports of the bruglar did not say that he was armed, then drawing a gun is ridiculous.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:35 PM
Jan 2015

Reminds me of another case where a gun was drawn for no reason: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/21/us/new-york-police-shooting/

Akai Gurley would be alive today if no gun had been drawn.

 

ARMYofONE

(69 posts)
53. <shrug> I'm white and have had the exact same thing happen to me.
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:39 PM
Jan 2015

It was a case of mistaken identify. My car and general appearance matched that of a bank robber. Denver police pulled me over and yanked me out of my car at gunpoint. I was calm and collected and a few minutes later the matter was over. Shit happens sometimes.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
59. The exact same thing? Were you a student with a student ID and stopped
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:18 PM
Jan 2015

by Campus Police with gun drawn? Were you forced to lie on the ground before they ever asked to see your ID?

No, what happened to you wasn't the exact same thing.

 

ARMYofONE

(69 posts)
70. At a fundamental level, yes, it was the same thing.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:15 PM
Jan 2015

No, it did not occur on a campus, but so what? I had done nothing wrong and before I was able to say a word, I was being pulled from my car at gunpoint for something I had not done, based on a mis-identification. So yeah, same basic situation.

And to your question, yeah, I was forced to lie on the ground. I was put there by two officers, who then patted me down and took my wallet out of my pocket. So, in actuality, my encounter was even more tense. But thanks for playing.


ETA: My first post very clearly says I was yanked from my car at gunpoint, so I'm really confused by your response.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
71. It makes a fundamental difference that this occurred on a private college campus.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:28 PM
Jan 2015

On most campuses, campus police are under the control of the university, not the city or state. They are supposed to be there to keep the students safe. They're not supposed to be pointing loaded weapons at unarmed, completely peaceful students and forcing them to lie on the ground.

All they had to do was ask to see the student ID. The ID would have showed his campus address and they would have known exactly where to find him if they ever needed to follow up. There was no reason to detain him for longer than it took to get his name and address.

 

ARMYofONE

(69 posts)
72. Okay, fair point, but not related to my post or your response, really.
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:38 PM
Jan 2015

My point was simple. The police make mistakes with white people too, and the result is no less dramatic, frightening or humiliating, because they are white. Not everything is about race.


ETA: I should not have used "exactly". You're right about that. But really, the OP had nothing to do with private vs. public police. The issue was a black man being forced to the ground at gunpoint due to a mis-identification.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
73. My point is that if the Yale student had been white, he is unlikely to have been treated
Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:54 PM
Jan 2015

in that manner, even if a young white male had been reported as a suspect in a robbery. They would have asked for an ID right off the bat.

I think that race very likely had something to do with why this Yale student was treated as he was. If they treated all their students like this there would be an uproar. They did it in this case because they didn't think the young black man looked like a student -- so his race had everything to do with it.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
54. Was there reason to believe the suspect was armed?
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:45 PM
Jan 2015

Either way, given that he was dressed the same way, stopping him seems entirely reasonable, unless that colour of shirt and hat is a local Yale insignia or something (I don't know what Yale's colours are).

But if there wasn't reason to believe the guy they were after wasn't armed, stopping him at gunpoint strikes me as more than a little gratuitous.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Charles M. Blow: "Th...