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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCharles M. Blow: "The Scenario I Have Always Dreaded - Yale Police Stopped My Son At Gunpoint"
Saturday evening, I got a call that no parent wants to get. It was my son calling from college hes a third-year student at Yale. He had been accosted by a campus police officer, at gunpoint!..........
This is the scenario I have always dreaded: my son at the wrong end of a gun barrel, face down on the concrete. I had always dreaded the moment that we would share stories about encounters with the police in which our lives hung in the balance, intergenerational stories of joining the inglorious club.
When that moment came, I was exceedingly happy I had talked to him about how to conduct himself if a situation like this ever occurred. Yet I was brewing with sadness and anger that he had to use that advice.
I am reminded of what I have always known, but what some would choose to deny: that there is no way to work your way out earn your way out of this sort of crisis. In these moments, what youve done matters less than how you look.
the rest:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/charles-m-blow-says-yale-police-held-son-gunpoint
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/26/opinion/charles-blow-at-yale-the-police-detained-my-son.html?smid=tw-share
BumRushDaShow
(129,090 posts)kpete
(71,996 posts)the head's up!
peace to you BumRushDaShow,
kp
BumRushDaShow
(129,090 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)This should never happen.
K&R
pipoman
(16,038 posts)are somehow American instead of human conditions. ..happening around the globe. ...always have....
marym625
(17,997 posts)No, I'm not pretending anything. We're not talking about around the globe. We're talking at an Ivy League school in the US.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Yeah, that was about the lamest excuse I've seen on here about defending dumbass cops. The cop could have asked questions and then sent the young man on his way. Totally wrong to pull a gun on him and order him to the ground.
Didn't know if that was a troll, a cop apologist, a racist or just a very confused person. Thanks for the clarification.
Yep, horribly lame. If cops are going to start pulling guns on anyone walking down the street, we are going to have some serious issues. Worse than we already have.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)Many, very many RABID racist assholes.
Lots of em, everywhere.
More than we want to admit.
I mean what is worse a country where racists are everywhere you turn or a country where many of the POLICE are said racists.
Crazy, eh.
marym625
(17,997 posts)And yes, I know. I was being polite. Because we both know, we can be baited.
It's disgusting. Just disgusting
pipoman
(16,038 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)Are you suggesting that this is somehow acceptable?
Cripes! Somebody relates a story of physical danger to a close relative at the hands of law enforcement gone nuts and your response is to say, in effect, "this happens everywhere"?
Just shrug it off if you like. Don't expect people to follow suit.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)onecent
(6,096 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)of white folks killed by cops. Cops should stop doing that." the analogous reply - "Well, black folks are killing each other. Black on black crime is bad."
It's a response that I'm not used to seeing from left leaning citizens, but am very familiar with coming from the right.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Nothing more...feel free to see my journal if you wish to see my opinion of the larger issue. ..
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Hopefully, you're not pretending that specifically addressing a concern for A denies a concern or knowledge of B.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)What's wrong? Can't admit that the cop didn't need to pull a gun on the son? Or make him get on the ground with his hands spread out? You pretend that is normal, when all the cop had to do was stop and ask him questions.
Total overkill with the gun and orders - of course you know this, but are making a very lame excuse for the officer.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)Police procedures that have gone far to the right and is way overdue for a correction, the list is long. Some in these parts like to think that this is somehow unique to the US....it isn't, and in comparison to the rest of the world is comparable with those in the rest of the first world and better than many. ...because the US is controlled by humans...
This kind of abuse of power is a human condition....always has been, and must be politically battled by the public. ..another great thing allowed in our country
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,090 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)And the description was: "Black."
Do I assume correctly?
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)If his son fit all of that, then I see little to get worked up about - his son fit a detailed description, was momentarily detained, quickly determined to not be the suspect and released.
The questions are:
1. Did he fit any of the clothing descriptions or did he just happen to be a black 20 year old?
2. Was he roughed up while detained?
BumRushDaShow
(129,090 posts)if the "description" was "white college age man wearing black jacket and red and white hat" and a big crowd of say, white fraternity members wearing those colors were roaming around campus, would the whole crowd been rounded up?
I doubt it (havng gone to an almost all-white university and seen it first hand - even when these white roaming bands were doing massive damage to campus property).
Unfortunately the whole "fit the description" thing is a fiasco because without further details, black males are automatic targets where cops may claim that they ditched the clothing and other nonsensical excuses. It's easier for them to just round up any black male they see because there are no repercussions (unless their daddy works for the NYT).
frazzled
(18,402 posts)It's 62% white.
8% African American
8% Hispanic
17% Asian
2% Native American or Alaska Native
http://oir.yale.edu/yale-factsheet
BumRushDaShow
(129,090 posts)when you are part of that "8%" African American population. But I will note that anything over 20% minority is considered a "threat" to the "majority" in many white communities.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Which gives me reason for hope! ... Not too long ago, anything over 5% was considered the "threating" tipping point.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Make that up?
there are actually sociological studies out there that show what they call "tipping points" in communities. Below that %, the minority is not considered a "threat". Once the percentage starts approaching the "tipping point", all hell breaks out and/or the "majority" population picks up and leaves.
The whole paper linked to appears to be here as a PDF.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Will read tonight.
ProfessorGAC
(65,075 posts)Detained could have been done without the threat of deadly force, no?
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)with the given description of the suspect, a drawn weapon sounds excessive.
I also have issue with the cop not asking for an ID until after first telling him he could go. That should have been the first thing to happen; makes me wonder how experienced the officer is.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)He's upset because of the manner of the detention. What was the need for a drawn gun when the description/complaints didn't cite anything about an armed suspect?
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)so obvious to anyone that's even half read the Blow article.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)right away? Why did they keep him there for minutes when a 2 second look at the ID could have ended all this?
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)How could knowing his name have ended it all?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Campus police aren't supposed to draw their guns on students just for walking across campus, no matter how many robberies have been reported.
His student ID would show them exactly where to find him if they needed him. So all they should have done is take down his name and number and get back to him if they needed to follow up for some reason.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)College kids rape every day. College kids steal every day. There have been public cases of college kids murdering. Thus, showing he was a college kid wouldn't have done shit by itself to prove he didn't commit any crimes.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)simply because someone else reported a robbery suspect who might have resembled him? Why did he have to lie on the ground? Why couldn't the police have looked at his ID and then questioned him STANDING UP? Why didn't they quickly let him go while they looked for more likely suspects? They would have known, from the ID, exactly where to find him.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)However, like I said below, all your other points are bull shit.
kjones
(1,053 posts)haha
Though seriously, I'm a white guy and I've been stopped
not once, not twice, but three times because I "fit a
description" and/or "looked like someone with a warrant
out on them." Twice in a car and once on the street.
Perhaps I just naturally look suspicious. I'm going with
the theory that I have an evil twin though.
You know, I just got a thought. I've taken quite a lot of
Psych classes and seminars in my life, and I just remembered
something about recognition. People recognize individuals
of their own race (whatever the race) easier than
members of other races. It's just the way it is generally.
One has to wonder what effects that has on policing.
The "you guys all look the same think" is a racist
punchline, but there's a little nugget of statistical
truth there (worst kind of truth), in that people seem
slower to recognize people of other races. It's just
something I read quite a while back about recognition,
so I don't know what the latest is on it.
matt819
(10,749 posts)So, one of the questions that I can't wait for an answer to is whether there was a similarity between the suspect and Tahj Blow, other than them both being black.
I think the equally large problem is the fact that the campus police officer's first response was to pull his gun. Yes, being a police officer can be dangerous. But given the information they had about the burglary suspect, I wonder whether this was the right move. I'm afraid all the police apologists here are going to say it is very necessary because you never know. But I have to believe that there's another way.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)PumpkinAle
(1,210 posts)..... if the (black) person hasn't been shot because of some perceived resistance.
This is becoming more the norm for police forces everywhere.
Truly disgusting.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)this young man did not become another Michael Brown.
From the op-ed:
Why was a gun drawn first? Why was he not immediately told why he was being detained? Why not ask for ID first?
What if my son had panicked under the stress, having never had a gun pointed at him before, and made what the officer considered a suspicious movement? Had I come close to losing him? Triggers cannot be unpulled. Bullets cannot be called back.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)I feel so sad when I read such stories.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Gun, trigger, accidental sudden movement, dead son.
Fucking scary.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Yale police never, ever behaved like that in my day (mid-'80s)! In fact, they would sometimes warn students of upcoming drug raids by the New Haven PD.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Not until and unless this country changes. A LOT.
TNNurse
(6,927 posts)Young women need an escort to prevent rape and young black men need a white escort to keep the cops from pulling a gun?
Demeter
(85,373 posts)It sucks big time.
napkinz
(17,199 posts)McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)on innocent white guys.
Innocent white people like this
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Reminds me of another case where a gun was drawn for no reason: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/21/us/new-york-police-shooting/
Akai Gurley would be alive today if no gun had been drawn.
ARMYofONE
(69 posts)It was a case of mistaken identify. My car and general appearance matched that of a bank robber. Denver police pulled me over and yanked me out of my car at gunpoint. I was calm and collected and a few minutes later the matter was over. Shit happens sometimes.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)by Campus Police with gun drawn? Were you forced to lie on the ground before they ever asked to see your ID?
No, what happened to you wasn't the exact same thing.
ARMYofONE
(69 posts)No, it did not occur on a campus, but so what? I had done nothing wrong and before I was able to say a word, I was being pulled from my car at gunpoint for something I had not done, based on a mis-identification. So yeah, same basic situation.
And to your question, yeah, I was forced to lie on the ground. I was put there by two officers, who then patted me down and took my wallet out of my pocket. So, in actuality, my encounter was even more tense. But thanks for playing.
ETA: My first post very clearly says I was yanked from my car at gunpoint, so I'm really confused by your response.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)On most campuses, campus police are under the control of the university, not the city or state. They are supposed to be there to keep the students safe. They're not supposed to be pointing loaded weapons at unarmed, completely peaceful students and forcing them to lie on the ground.
All they had to do was ask to see the student ID. The ID would have showed his campus address and they would have known exactly where to find him if they ever needed to follow up. There was no reason to detain him for longer than it took to get his name and address.
ARMYofONE
(69 posts)My point was simple. The police make mistakes with white people too, and the result is no less dramatic, frightening or humiliating, because they are white. Not everything is about race.
ETA: I should not have used "exactly". You're right about that. But really, the OP had nothing to do with private vs. public police. The issue was a black man being forced to the ground at gunpoint due to a mis-identification.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)in that manner, even if a young white male had been reported as a suspect in a robbery. They would have asked for an ID right off the bat.
I think that race very likely had something to do with why this Yale student was treated as he was. If they treated all their students like this there would be an uproar. They did it in this case because they didn't think the young black man looked like a student -- so his race had everything to do with it.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Either way, given that he was dressed the same way, stopping him seems entirely reasonable, unless that colour of shirt and hat is a local Yale insignia or something (I don't know what Yale's colours are).
But if there wasn't reason to believe the guy they were after wasn't armed, stopping him at gunpoint strikes me as more than a little gratuitous.