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Ex Lurker

(3,816 posts)
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 01:56 AM Jan 2015

Tamiflu psychosis is a real thing, and I witnessed it.

Last week, my 76 year old mother was diagnosed with the flu, spent a few days in the hospital, and was sent home with a Tamiflu prescription. The next afternoon, she became more and more confused, until that evening she had a full blown psychotic episode. She did not know who any of us were, became paranoid, tried to stab my father with a fork. We rushed her to the ER, where my 110 lb mother fought four nurses nearly to a standstill as they tried to put her in restraints. After a night in ICU and another night in a regular room, she was completely back to normal and has no memory of any of this happening. She had no history of mental illness whatsoever before this event.

If you choose to take Tamiflu, please be advised that this reaction, while rare, does happen to some people. I, for one, will opt not to take it.

My other thought is that if this had happened to me, I would probably be dead now. I'm a pretty big guy, and based on what my elderly mother was capable of in that condition, nobody at that hospital would have been able to control me. They would have called the cops, and well, you know the rest.

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Tamiflu psychosis is a real thing, and I witnessed it. (Original Post) Ex Lurker Jan 2015 OP
Why are you convinced it was the tamiflu? MattBaggins Jan 2015 #1
Tested positive for influenza B Ex Lurker Jan 2015 #2
Vivid nightmares, hallucinations, and psychosis are known occasional side effects Electric Monk Jan 2015 #4
That sounds just awful for her and you all. uppityperson Jan 2015 #3
When I think of Tamiflu, I think of Donald Rumsfeld, Grover Norquist, and George Schultz Electric Monk Jan 2015 #5
My son, 11, took some Tamiflu-like medicine. Fixed him up right away, but he was high as hell Bonobo Jan 2015 #6
I'm sorry, I know that is not a good thing, but your description gave me a brief chuckle. Xyzse Jan 2015 #28
For tamiflu to be marginally effective arikara Jan 2015 #7
I started my Tamiflu near the end of the first day of symptoms. Ilsa Jan 2015 #14
The thing with something like that is arikara Jan 2015 #20
My past experience indicates I probably would Ilsa Jan 2015 #31
Yeah, it didn't work for me Ratty Jan 2015 #21
Last year my husband took Tamiflu 2 days into the worst flu he ever had. SunSeeker Jan 2015 #8
oh no... Catherine Vincent Jan 2015 #9
They are not that common but they do occur. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #11
What does it do? Trick your body into thinking you're not sick? C Moon Jan 2015 #10
It blocks the virus from replicating efficiently. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #12
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #24
I had hallucinations Aerows Jan 2015 #32
I have only had one experience with Tamiflu davidpdx Jan 2015 #13
One size does not fit all. Baitball Blogger Jan 2015 #15
My neighbor's husband seemed a little sick. Their doctor wasn't sure what it was so... GreatGazoo Jan 2015 #16
I hope that dr was reported, at least to several other physicians. Ilsa Jan 2015 #17
it's tough because you have to have some trust but it is still buyer beware GreatGazoo Jan 2015 #19
I usually discuss my preferences for my treatment with my dr Ilsa Jan 2015 #29
People think antibiotics are warm and fuzzy drugs. Laffy Kat Jan 2015 #27
I've learned that a lot of drugs that Ilsa Jan 2015 #18
Yes RobinA Jan 2015 #22
I won't dis antidepressants! They're critical for many. nt Ilsa Jan 2015 #30
It really is a situation Aerows Jan 2015 #34
My husband had a similar (but nonviolent) episode after starting Lantus for diabetes. Vinca Jan 2015 #23
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #25
Tamiflu commercials not listing adverse reactions HockeyMom Jan 2015 #26
I've never prescribed it. Aristus Jan 2015 #33

MattBaggins

(7,904 posts)
1. Why are you convinced it was the tamiflu?
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 01:59 AM
Jan 2015

Your mother already had the flu? What was her temp? Was she dehydrated? What other meds was she on?

Ex Lurker

(3,816 posts)
2. Tested positive for influenza B
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 02:02 AM
Jan 2015

She was on no other meds except her regular BP and cholesterol medication. The ER doctor immediately diagnosed a drug reaction, confirmed by her primary doc. They stopped the Tamiflu and the confusion subsided as soon as it had cleared her system.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
4. Vivid nightmares, hallucinations, and psychosis are known occasional side effects
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 02:10 AM
Jan 2015
http://www.cracked.com/article_20514_the-5-most-horrifying-side-effects-common-medications.html

The Medication:

Tamiflu is a wildly popular treatment for the flu, frequently prescribed for parents to pump their children full of at the first sign of a sniffle. Which is about to get a bit terrifying, since Tamiflu ...

The Side Effect:

... can send you on a bad trip reminiscent of a ridiculous old-school anti-marijuana PSA. That's seriously the best way we can think of to accurately summarize the symptoms, which range from hallucinations to psychosis to impulsive behavior. Kids taking it have tried to dive out of the windows of moving cars. Dr. Lawrence G. Roberts, aka "the creator of the freaking Internet," blacked out and introduced a tree to the inner workings of his BMW after taking it, while other adults have just gone whole hog and committed suicide.

But instead of slamming that shit to bits with the ban hammer, the FDA has sort of gone in the exact opposite direction, approving Tamiflu for use with newborns and infants. Which we guess actually makes a twisted kind of sense -- being skin sacks full of Jell-O, infants literally can't chase the pretty colors, so running out into traffic isn't really a concern. Also, they lack the fine motor skills to properly operate a handgun.

But the benefits are probably worth the possible side effects, right? After all, the flu is a really nasty, even potentially fatal virus that's implicated in thousands of deaths every year. So if Tamiflu can save people, maybe it's worth the risks. After all, a big-time medication like this wouldn't even be on the shelves if it hadn't been proven effective in numerous peer-reviewed double-blind scientific studies that -- wait, it hasn't? It doesn't seem to have any effect on the flu? Tamiflu, like most other flu medications, doesn't do anything (except maybe trigger a pseudo PCP freakout)?

Aaaaand, several of you are right now trying to think of how you can get your hands on some. Don't say we didn't warn you.


http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=21087&name=TAMIFLU&sort=satisfaction&order=1

Several kids in my daughters class had tested positive for flu so when she came home with a fever we started her on it prophylactically. The first night she took it she woke up with hallucinations and screaming uncontrollably. At first I just thought she was sleepwalking but it happened in the second night and she's never done that before. The only correlation could be the Tamiflu. I have never heard her scream uncontrollably and not make sense when she talks...it is truly scary to be woken up with that type of fear from your child.

_____

Hallucinations, psychosis, sleeplessness, horrible vivid nightmares, some type of temporary blindness, agitation, severe stomach pain, dizziness, and absolute fear of everything in sight

_____

Hallucinations, odd behavior, scared of normal things

_____

we gave this to our 5 year old on for the flu. He had taken this before with no reactions. He awoke terrified, unable to see with a look of terror. He was saying the were chasing him and he was seeing things that were not there.

_____

etc

uppityperson

(115,678 posts)
3. That sounds just awful for her and you all.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 02:09 AM
Jan 2015

Any medicine or drug can have bad side effects and I didn't know this was one for tamiflu. Best wishes for fast healing to her.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
6. My son, 11, took some Tamiflu-like medicine. Fixed him up right away, but he was high as hell
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 02:17 AM
Jan 2015

Was bouncing around like a cocaine fiend before bedtime.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
7. For tamiflu to be marginally effective
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:01 AM
Jan 2015

you have to take it just as soon as you get sick, then it may shorten the duration of your symptoms by a few hours to a day. Being already sick a day or 2 is too late and renders it useless. So that means its pretty much always useless because people are too sick before they get to the doctor for it to have any effect, other than the dangerous unwanted side effects. Too bad doctors persist in giving it to people.

Another wonderful gift from Rumsfled along with aspartame and the Iraq invasion.

Ilsa

(61,697 posts)
14. I started my Tamiflu near the end of the first day of symptoms.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 07:34 AM
Jan 2015

Worked great to alleviate severity and knock out the worst of in 24 hours. Still had downtime though due to weakness.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
20. The thing with something like that is
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 02:49 PM
Jan 2015

that you have no way of knowing how sick you would have got without it, or how long it would have lasted. You can't even tell by the people around you.

This year, everyone I was around had a cold that knocked them out for the better part of a week. Mine lasted 4 hours. I was using some kind of mushroom based immune support. Did it work? I tend to think so but maybe my immune system is healthy without it and I think the placebo effect works well too.

Ilsa

(61,697 posts)
31. My past experience indicates I probably would
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 08:28 PM
Jan 2015

have been suffering the worst of it for another 24-36 hours, totally about five days. Hubby's work contacts who had the flu were shut down 5-6 days. But yes, everyone's immune system is different, but the CDC usually keeps pretty good numbers that I generally "fit" into.

Ratty

(2,100 posts)
21. Yeah, it didn't work for me
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 02:51 PM
Jan 2015

Last year my flu led to the worst asthma attack of my life. They gave me tamiflu which I started taking as soon as possible but it didn't reduce or shorten the symptoms one whit. At least I didn't have a psychotic episode or any other side effects.

SunSeeker

(51,662 posts)
8. Last year my husband took Tamiflu 2 days into the worst flu he ever had.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:03 AM
Jan 2015

It worked great, really seemed miraculous. Within 24 hours, the uncontrollable shivering, fever, nausea and weakness were gone. I am now a big fan of Tamiflu, but this rare and dangerous side effect should be made known to patients and their families. I had no idea it could cause psychosis. Fortunately, it did not affect my husband mentally.

Catherine Vincent

(34,491 posts)
9. oh no...
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:08 AM
Jan 2015

I started taking tamiflu a couple of days ago. I didnt know there were drastic side effects as that.

C Moon

(12,221 posts)
10. What does it do? Trick your body into thinking you're not sick?
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:09 AM
Jan 2015

I was actually thinking about taking it this year if I caught the flu (haven't had the flu in 20 years, I think), because I keep hearing how everyone is getting sick. I'm glad I saw this, I will not put myself through that. When I was a kid I use to hallucinate from flu fevers.
No thanks—I'd rather have a mild flu hallucination.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
12. It blocks the virus from replicating efficiently.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 05:10 AM
Jan 2015

These are antivirals. Others recommended this year are Relenza and Rapivab (new this year). An older one is amantadine, but widespread use of that has made it very ineffective against current flu virus strains.

Relenza is known to cause bronchospasms. Rapivab is very new so we just don't know.

Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #12)

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
32. I had hallucinations
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 08:31 PM
Jan 2015

for three days when I got the chicken pox. Unfortunately, I got them after puberty which supposedly makes them worse, and boy, was it horrible. I had them even on the bottom of my feet and under my eyelids. In my ears, everywhere.

I've never been so sick in my life. I think I would still prefer that over going psychotic.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
13. I have only had one experience with Tamiflu
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 06:24 AM
Jan 2015

back in 2006 when I was sick with the flu. I happened to go to the international hospital here in Seoul (and boy was that expensive even with insurance) and the doctor prescribed Tamiflu. I think I was on it two or three days (honestly it was so long ago, I don't know for sure). If I was in a similar situation again I might consider refusing it.

Baitball Blogger

(46,756 posts)
15. One size does not fit all.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 09:18 AM
Jan 2015

I still can't believe how they don't adjust medication based on weight. They do a better job for dogs than they do for humans.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
16. My neighbor's husband seemed a little sick. Their doctor wasn't sure what it was so...
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 09:20 AM
Jan 2015

she wrote a prescription. Apparently you don't need to know what you are treating before get out the scrip pad these days. Virus or bacteria -- she don't give a shit.

A day later, neighbor comes home, finds her husband who is about 80YO, on the toilet crying. He had been there for hours unable to move, weakness in his limbs and upper body, confusion, odd pain in limbs. She called me to help. What was the prescription? I asked.

"Cipro." He had a mild fever and seemed tired so she wrote a scrip for Cipro (!?) They didn't know that Cipro was originally for Anthrax exposure, which is a long way from a runny nose

Possible side effects:

In addition to being unable to walk uphill, climb stairs or see clearly, his symptoms included dry eyes, mouth and skin; ringing in his ears; delayed urination; uncontrollable shaking; burning pain in his eyes and feet; occasional tingling in his hands and feet; heart palpitations; and muscle spasms in his back and around his eyes. Though Mr. Balch’s reaction is unusual, doctors who have studied the side effects of fluoroquinolones say others have suffered similar symptoms.

Three and a half months after he took that second pill, these symptoms persist, and none of the many doctors of different specialties he has consulted has been able to help. Mr. Balch is now working with a physical therapist, but in a phone consultation with Dr. David Flockhart, an expert in fluoroquinolone side effects at the Indiana University School of Medicine, he was told it could take a year for his symptoms to resolve, if they ever do disappear completely.
...
In addition to occasional unwanted effects on the musculoskeletal, visual and renal systems, the drugs in rare cases can seriously injure the central nervous system (causing “brain fog,” depression, hallucinations and psychotic reactions), the heart, liver, skin (painful, disfiguring rashes and phototoxicity), the gastrointestinal system (nausea and diarrhea), hearing and blood sugar metabolism.


http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0

The over use of Flox is blamed in part for the rise of MRSA and was implicated in Gulf War Syndrome.

Scares me that doctors are so quick and willing to write off-label scrips for the most powerful meds available. They don't talk side effects, they just say you need it.

Same doctor: they took their son in because he was run down from too much drinking. IMHO he is an alcoholic. She wrote a scrip for Zoloft -- didn't treat the alcoholism. Didn't talk about what is going to happen when he doses on Zoloft and then binges... Ugh.

Ilsa

(61,697 posts)
17. I hope that dr was reported, at least to several other physicians.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 10:56 AM
Jan 2015

An older friend had breast cancer and needed a mastectomy. Her dr was a GP and did the surgery. Naturally, he didn't know what the hell he was doing. Her new dr at a major medical center was so upset about her physical results from the surgery that she called him up and chewed him out, stressing that he was using 1970s techniques. She told him he better not do any more of those surgeries or she'd report him for malpractice.

I remember questioning my friend about this dr before her surgery, but she said she had no issue with him doing it. She's learned the hard way that they aren't to be revered, just respected.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
19. it's tough because you have to have some trust but it is still buyer beware
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 11:46 AM
Jan 2015

Most of the explosion in SSRI use, etc is due to off-label use/prescriptions and they are totally legal. Once a drug is approved for anything -- psychosis, bi-polar disorders -- they can prescribe it for ANYTHING, a headache if they want to.

I think the trick is to find a doctor who shares one's views on the risks versus benefits of these new powerful scrip drugs (and all the nonsense about cholesterol). I asked my doctor for Propecia, he said try Rogaine (topical and less prone to side effects) first. I love my doctor. same for my dentist -- he sent to the health food store before a surgery, to get refrigerated (live) probiotics to correct the side effects of the antibiotics he put me on. Worked well.

Sadly, I don't think my neighbors' Cipro, Ritalin, Zoloft, Prozac loving doctor is anything unusual in the US.

Ilsa

(61,697 posts)
29. I usually discuss my preferences for my treatment with my dr
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 08:21 PM
Jan 2015

Before "hiring" him or her. I tend to be conservative about meds anyway, and tell them that I appreciate the nursing care reminders and getting ready for post-op before "going under the knife," such as getting typical scripts filled first, filling the list of items needed (cold packs, Colace, other OTC stuff) before anyone is anesthetized. It's not always easy to find drs who focus beyond what they to what the patient and family can do.

Laffy Kat

(16,386 posts)
27. People think antibiotics are warm and fuzzy drugs.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 04:31 PM
Jan 2015

But they are not. Some very commonly used agents have serious side effects. Obey your health care provider but be careful.

Ilsa

(61,697 posts)
18. I've learned that a lot of drugs that
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 11:00 AM
Jan 2015

go down easy with the general middle age adult population can wreak havoc on the elderly (and the very young, of course). I've always been a "low-dose" kind of person, except in the case of certain antibiotics which won't work at low doses.

People should always be aware of potential side effects and family history.

RobinA

(9,894 posts)
22. Yes
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:25 PM
Jan 2015

Like many of my father's relatives. They can get quite depressed in old age where it is detrimental to their health. Invariably they get an antidepressant and go stark raving mad. Meanwhile, many of us younger members take antidepressants with good effect and no madness.

(Please, no "antidepressants are poison" comments. Many of us function because of them.)

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
34. It really is a situation
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 08:39 PM
Jan 2015

where they should take it slow for many anti-depressants because they have a long half-life in your system, and you might not see a bad reaction until it is too late.

I've taken Zoloft for a long time, and it has helped me TREMENDOUSLY. But you have stories of people that can't function on it, either. The first one I was on (been a while don't remember which one it was) made me sick as a dog and angry about the sun coming up in the morning and irate at air because it had to be breathed.

Needless to say, I quit taking that one immediately. Zoloft, however, has worked wonders for me, and I've had none of the side effects that a lot of people get.

Vinca

(50,302 posts)
23. My husband had a similar (but nonviolent) episode after starting Lantus for diabetes.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:33 PM
Jan 2015

He ended up in the ER and spent the night in the hospital. The ER doc diagnosed him with Transient Global Amnesia. It lasted for 24 hours and he has no memory of any of it. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen. I'm convinced the best thing most of us can do is stay away from any kind of medication or supplement unless it's absolutely necessary.

Response to Vinca (Reply #23)

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
26. Tamiflu commercials not listing adverse reactions
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 04:27 PM
Jan 2015

unlike all the other meds ads. Why not? Sat next to a 60 year woman at husband's company Christmas party. Wife of one of his coworkers who is still teaching. Got her flu shot but got flu, went to ER, and got pneumonia also. Hospital told her 62 year old husband, who got his flu shot, had NO symptoms at all, to take Tamiflu. WHY when he had flu shot, no SYMPTOMS of flu, to get Tamiflu? If it ain't broken, don't attempt to fix it. You might just get unintended consequences.

Aristus

(66,446 posts)
33. I've never prescribed it.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 08:37 PM
Jan 2015

Certainly not for anyone without a confirmed influenza infection. You'd be surprised how often I get patients in clinic with a little dribble and sniffle, oxygen saturation normal, afebrile, and in no acute respiratory distress, who are convinced they have the flu. The vast majority of the time, I'm able to convince them they have a garden-variety upper respiratory infection, and some symptomatic care and plenty of fluids will help. On rarer occasions, I'll have people demand antibiotics, which don't cure a viral infection, of course. And still more rarely, I have people demand Tamiflu regardless of my ruling out influenza as a cause of their symptoms.

Patient education is my favorite part of the job, and I do a lot of it.

Not prescribing medications that aren't needed, or informing patients that the risk of treatment with a particular med may outweigh any benefit, is another important part.

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