The 1% is laughing at your expense.

Most of the funds go to public education... then fire and police.

In most counties, almost none of it can be labeled as "corporate welfare"

On edit - Whoops! The OP is in Texas.

Corporations are drawn into an area by having things like property taxes waived. Usually, there are no net gains in jobs and a net loss in disposable income in the areas that pull this shit, but politicians don't give a flying fuck.

Even in the really agressive counties, such property tax waivers are a tiny percentage of the total property tax.

and we took down an old chicken house to boot so it should have gone down if anything not up. No new bond issues were passed either during this time period.
as they lower the taxes on the rich we regular jane and joes have to make up the difference and that is done by way of taxes.

Last legislative session the state gave a large tax cut to the rich and corporations and in todays paper our puke governor said that there would have to be some belt tightening, some services cut or done away with because they don't have the funds to pay anymore. She is the one who pushed this tax cut through to begin with, well her and the rest of the puke congress critters

As the tax burden goes down for the rich and corporations ours go up, thats fact and has been as long as I've been paying attention and that attention began in earnest during my war service

They don't pay jack squat. So anyone paying any property taxes pay more than them freeloaders.

we want them to be able to exist, so we give them tax breaks, right?

However, quite a few of them are paying their administration and giving them perks, like free homes, gardeners, etc., like they are General Motors. Also, some of them occupy really, really primo real estate. Not only the schools, but their officers. I would almost drool walking by some of their mansions and grounds. They are also charging students through the nose for room and boards. So, I have really mixed feelings.

Oh, and we also have many churches and private schools at every level.

I think everyone should pay something. Maybe churches and non profits should at least pay half. That would help a lot of communities.

were so low because her little town had a big corporation that paid heavy real estate taxes.

Some areas try to get corporations to move their operations in by giving tax incentives - no property tax, no corporate taxes. Say a Walmart is invited to your area on the condition they pay no taxes at all for 10 years - who is going to make up the difference between what had been paid on that property and what is now not being paid? Everyone else.

That is "corporate welfare" - and it's not happening just in Texas.

It isn't anywhere close to "most".

Also... as objectionable as such deals can be, they're usually not done on land that paid much in property taxes to begin with. When Walmart gets such a deal, the bulk of the taxable valuation of the property is because there's now a Walmart sitting on top of it... so the county is waiving taxes that it wouldn't get if it weren't for the deal.

Vacant land or land that has some little shack on it doesn't get taxed the same as land with anything substantial built on it. Still, a corporation will get that kind of tax break, but a home or condo or coop owner will not. That's fine, I suppose, if the corporation creates many jobs that pay well. But, the jobs that a corporation like Wal-Mart creates put further stress on taxpayers because the pay is so poor.

If a county makes a deal with a developer (homes/stores/factories/whatever) to turn $300/year/acre in taxes into $3,000/year/acre in taxes... but waives those taxes for the first five years... it doesn't cost them $3,000 per year for each acre. It costs them $300... because they wouldn't get any more than that unless someone puts something more valuable there.

Where such policies become questionable is when the business would have moved there anyway and is using the leverage of implies incentives elsewhere to squeeze the county. They're also bad policy because their general availability makes it easier for businesses to squeeze the next county.

doesn't make the point either. Very often, there is no good reason to forgive taxes for corporations for years. Indeed, some of them should pay extra. My first post was clear.

You can defend the statement that it replied to? That most of your property taxes go to corporate welfare?

Sorry... that's nonsense. In almost every county, public education is the clear #1 slot (very often the outright majority and not infrequently exceeding property tax revenue)

As for the second paragraph in #16... you didn't even refute it. You ran off on a tangent.

... at least to the extentthat "a lot" is not very specific.

It varies a great deal by county (and on how they structure/finance their debt)... but a county is in deep trouble if it comes close to "most"

A hug, u can has.

you are now proportionally richer by $0.00011 - so there's that!

Taxes pay for civilization.

If you have a $150,000 a year job, it is cheap. If you live on $1,000 a month disability, it is incredibly expensive.

I have owned homes is 5 different states and a yearly tax bill that low is nothing compared to what I and damn near every other homeowner has to pay. Now my experience is limited to the mid atlantic and north east and I would have loved to have a tax bill that low for the year.

Perhaps it is high for BFE America IDK, then again taxes pay for civilization.

I'm assuming the fact that you consider that cheap (its actually twice what I pay in property taxes), that you make a considerable amount of money. Realize not everyone is in your situation. Many people live on almost nothing. Some live on as little as $700 a month on a fixed income. Many elderly get kicked out of their homes because they can't pay their "cheap" property tax. Not everyone has your experience, and "paying for civilization" is hard for many people when they can't afford medical bills or even their power bill. Millions are in that situation.

If owning a home is expensive then rent or move to a lower cost of living area.

Yes I have compassion for people with less or nothing but the commons cost money. If their are not property tax what is your alternatives to paying for the commons of a community? Who will pay for police, firemen, schools, roads, sewer, etc.....? $2800 is about $233 a month, if the house is paid off, it is a bargain for a place to live.

No I do not make a considerable amount of money, I do OK, but not rich either, I just fully understand the cost of living and what it entails. It is all part of being an adult.


So what are the alternatives to property taxes, serve em up!

Rent is even more more expensive in a lot of areas. Your lack of empathy is definitely showing.

I'd say you chose this forum most unwisely.

If you cannot afford $233 a month in taxes you need to seek some assistance from your local social services.

Sorry for your plight but WTF do you want people to do? Everyone has to pay taxes on property they own. Your taxes are pretty low compared to most folks in most of the USA.

If you cannot afford it, sell it and use the proceeds to live some place else.

I purchased a home one time and lived there for over 5 years then me and my partner both lost our jobs, so we did not have another choice we had to sell the home rent a place we could actually afford, sell a car we had to save money, cash in 401k's less then 25k between us and relocated to someplace else that had jobs and affordable homes.

I have plenty of empathy, I just know how to act like an adult too and do something about it, not whine about things I cannot control like death and taxes.

If you have an alternatives to property taxes lets hear em.

Last edited Fri Jan 30, 2015, 12:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Just curious.

Maybe a more accurate way to say it is that you risk a hidden post if you personally insult another poster.

hobbit 709 would be so uncivil as to personally insult another member of this site? Why is that?

answer, and not because you wanted to play a silly gotcha posting game. My bad.

correctly. I was expecting an answer from the OP, but you were the one to chime in with your opinion about personal insults. How was I supposed to interpret that otherwise? Yes, it's a discussion board and you are welcome to chime in with your opinion, which I value.

"Not a hippy love fest" "part of being an adult"... whatever

I never once asked for the removal of property tax. Obviously taxes as a whole are needed for society, and that includes property taxes. Im just asking you to realize that bad things happen to good people. There are all kinds of stories of the elderly getting kicked out of their house. Or disabled. You can fully understand what it means to "be an adult" and then kicked out of your house because you got injured on the job and can't work anymore, and the company stalls for years in a settlement. Or you could get laid off and can't find a job for years during a recession. Or you could get an illness that your health insurance won't pay for and get stuck with a $100,000 medical bill (and then have trouble paying your property taxes). Or maybe you're a minority or have a disability and can't get a decent paying job because you keep getting discriminated against in the employment process. All these things can happen even if you "do all the right things."

Yes I'm sure there are people who get kicked out of their house because they budgeted improperly. However, to put it in the equivalent of your terms, the world isn't an Ayn Randian utopian and sometimes bad things simply happen to good people who "do all the right things." I don't know what the solution is, and I'm not even proposing one. But you seem to not even understand this basic concept that bad things happen to good people, and until everyone understands this, there is no way to prepare a solution. This simple "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" message you are giving out is not a solution though for someone who is disabled and discriminated against or gets a $100,000 medical bill.

Also you are rich, whether you want to admit it. I make $35,000 a year before taxes and consider myself rich. I'm also lucky to have no medical debt. However, I do have a mortgage, car bill, and student loans to pay. This post isn't about me, its about the world I've seen around me. That's because I've seen many people in my lifetime who make much less than me, or who have had terrible luck. Also my salary puts me at least in the upper 10% of the world's population. Im glad to pay my property tax, because I know I have the ability, and can give back. I just realize that good things happen to bad people, and there are legitimate reason why other people can't. Then they ended up getting kicked out of their house while a wealthy investor profits from buying the debt from local governments. http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/10/real_estate/tax-liens/

Im guessing you make more than me if you consider $2,800 in taxes "cheap." Therefore, from the world perspective, you are "rich."

Bankruptcy is not a concept of capitalism. It is a concept of socialism. That's means by your own words "you weren't able to afford something" and left someone else the bill. Obviously if you had 100k in medical debt, there was a legitimate reason. But by filing bankruptcy, you did the same thing you are criticizing other people for. You didn't pay a debt you owed. That's the same thing that happens with many people who cannot pay their property taxes. You can say you got punished for it, but ultimately you never had to pay your debt.

Im not saying its fair you had that debt. I personally support a single payer system where that kind of debt wouldn't even be possible. I'm just saying, stop criticizing people who have basically done the equivalent of what you did.

if going BK is an option go for it, it is a business option and that is the way one has to look at their finances too, sometimes BK is the only option for both individuals or businesses.

The crazy part is after 2 years BK I was able to get a car loan with in 5 a mortgage. After 7 years it drops off and you never see anything about it again.

Single payer we could have had it but the Conservative Democrats did not want us to have it

a 2% discount on our property taxes if we pay before October 1

You should feel richer, not poorer.

And I have to pay for the state's share of the school money that they no longer provide.

Resentment usually comes from one or both of two sources:

One is property owners being treated unequally, or a perception of inequality.

The other is if tax money is wasted or a perception of waste exists, waste including too lavish salaries or a perception of too lavish salaries.

No property tax for seniors, here in Ala. and in several other states.

Reason 586 why Mr. Dixie let me kidnap him from Cal.

It can given them reassurance that they won't be kicked out of their home for being too poor to pay the tax when they are on a very limited income.

Not just some. My parents (when they were living) sure appreciated the homestead exemption in Illinois. Their taxes were frozen at some point so that became a fixed expense on their fixed income. Decent, at least, break for them.

Don't know if Illinois does that anymore. I should find out since my wife and i have been in the same house for a thousand years.

My mom has been paying Arkansas property tax for more than 50 years, and her folks paid it for 35 years, so she and they certainly have paid their fair share. On top of that, my mom had a pretty tough life, with quite a few bad breaks, so she deserves some good breaks in her golden years. Her place isn't luxurious by any means, but it is surrounded by nature, and I think that has been very beneficial to both her mental and physical health. Of course, I would do what I could to keep her living in such an environment, but the property tax freeze at least helps to relieve (although not eliminate) one type of financial burden for both of us.

house and a 20 acre yard that whines about his property taxes. You know the average house in the US is double the size they were
in the 50s and the average family size probably half what it was in the 50s. I tell him if he doesn't want to pay so much tax to get a smaller house
and a one acre lot.

In 1990 when we bought the house the taxes were just under $400/yr. The value of the house has tripled-that tells you how much the tax rate has climbed.
School taxes are the biggest cause. the state used to provide 50% of the school money-now it's 25% and dropping and they mandate more for the schools to do. Thank you GWB and Gov. Oops.

That's why a moderate-sized home is so expensive in this case.

but money has to come from somewhere, so they have high sales taxes, high taxes on gasoline, high property taxes. All of which are pretty regressive.

It's 8% where I live. Fuel tax is 38.4 cents/gallon unleaded. There are states with lower on both, but Texas isn't the highest. The property taxes are high, but that's the trade of with no income tax. The money has to be paid somehow.

would put more of the tax burden on those that can better afford it.

...according to ITEP:

http://www.itep.org/whopays/executive_summary.php

None of those three have state income tax for persons or corporations.

(Relatively high taxes and relatively housing costs compared to Manhattan and Boston, where I've lived).

Houses are more affordable, but the question becomes, can you afford to keep them once you own them? And what happens to your ability to keep your home when you retire and taxes keep going up, but your income is fixed?

Thing is, living in a society costs. If they don't tax income, the money has to come from somewhere else. There's no free lunch.

state with low taxes. My place is about the same size and my lot is .52 acres and I pay about less than $800 a year. You don't have income tax there do you?

I always rented so I didn't pay property taxes directly. But sales taxes are regressive, and I think well over 9% when I lived in Corpus Christi.

You're getting ripped off. Gov. Perry needs to stop coming out here and blathering about how cheap things are in TX, apparently CA is a bargain, at least in the affordably unfashionable parts.

$2,901.44 - this year.

Way better than the $4,800+ I was paying in NJ. And I get more bang for my bucks (pun: I live in Bucks County). Good schools, great infrastructure, new courthouse (taking forever, but it's beautiful), a nice police force (mine can't even spell SWAT), fire and EMT's close by, several beautiful parks....

My only complaint is that they can't remove snow, or repair potholes for shit.

Nearly identical amount of money per year. We don't have a big house, but we live only 65 miles from Chicago. There are folks at work who have tax bills 3x what we pay.

We live in a nice condo (1,100sq ft), in a great neighborhood about 45 min north of Philly.

I work in NJ, and the same condo, in a similar neighborhood would cost 50% more than what we paid, and the taxes would be almost 3x higher.

NJ however really does have an amazing road department.

Used to stay in Mt Laurel and did quite a bit of work at a manufacturing site in Bordentown. Driven along US 130 through Cinnaminson and Burlington many, many times.

When we bought our home in late 2013. But I work in Basking Ridge - too long of a commute. It's still 40 minutes coming home (have to drive through the Somerville Circle/202/206/287 interchange area . . . I look at what I save in gas going towards the property taxes.

That said - I agree on snow removal. And roads. And - we have awesome services in our town.

What we got back from the Fed this year is a little more than our property taxes so we figure it evens out in the end. We have a very low rate mortgage so the rest evens that out.

Next challenge for us in Hunterdon and Bucks county is the pipeline. Leonard Lance is still trying to get a meeting together with te "authorities" - check his FB page and get to that and be heard. I'm worried about you guys.

Cross the river in Stockton (Phillip's Fine Wines and the Stockton Market are a must), and shoot up 523 past Flemington. It's 30 miles and takes about 45 min. Not too bad. Lots of folks from Stockton through Seargentsville are well aware of the pipeline. Mostly farmers worrying about their land and water. Me too for that matter. The Asian grocery in Seargentsville had a huge banner for several weeks protesting the pipeline.

Last summer boss gave me a half day cause it was so nice out. It was a great day for the motorcycle. I stopped for lunch at the inn. Took a picture for my wife to make her jealous.

Reservations on the 13th for my birthday! My husband used to stop there a lot with his buddies when they would take their bikes out. The day we got married there was a bunch of "retired" Pagans there and they were fist pumping when the groom showed up on his Harley!

1488 sq-ft Cape Cod w/ dormer.

Well, except for the 1000 miles east. Our's is a bit bigger, (250 ft^2) but only because we can count the finished basement. We live on a corner and garage is in the basement so we have direct egress to the outdoors from there. The realty rules say that makes it actual usable living space. The house itself is probably nearly identical to your home.

The basement is half finished, but because there is no heat, it isn't considered living space. The dormer gives me a three-quarter story upstairs, allowing for a second full bath and large bedrooms. Other than the cat's litter box though, the upper bathroom/bedrooms are unused as I sleep on the first level.

far outweigh the cost, as I understand it.

Clearing 2 feet of snow off the roads in mere hours - Worth every penny!

a cousin in New Jersey whose property tax bill last year was 17K on a house worth $569K. That's robbery.

what tax deduction?

It's probably not worth it unless you have other deductions, too, but you might check it out. I couldn't find anything about form 1040EZ being mandated for people with lower incomes. If the $3,000 you earned was made at home (like selling on ebay or child care or whatever) you can deduct the expenses for the portion of the house you use and also take depreciation. It's all a giant pain in the butt, of course, but it's something to consider.

Texas reduces (or even eliminates) property taxes in some circumstances.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/proptax/exemptions.html

Is there still a mortgage?

also in Texas. I consider it a good deal.

...but its the one tax I never minded paying very much. While my income taxes mostly support the pentagon and so forth, my property taxes mostly support our local schools.

I wrote a check yesterday for $1,704.55, but that's just one payment out of 4 that I pay during the year for a total of $6,818.20.

It's not that I object to supporting my town's schools, fire and police etc., but my town comes up with more ideas on how to spend our tax money than I can count.

And it's always explained away by the argument that it ONLY adds X amount of dollars to our tax bills.

All those X amounts really add up over the years.

local: things like schools, roads, school buses, libraries, snow removal, etc. He said that always made him feel better.

The Maryland house is 7500 a year in property taxes.

The rest will have to wait until I get my income tax return. I hope it is enough.

The only thing I am grateful for (being in Dallas) is that none of it goes to Jerry Jones. Thank you Laura Miller.

We pay almost $2000 in property taxes each year. We know that we will have to pay that. We plan for it. It's one of the dubious joys of home ownership, and taxes vary in different parts of the country. In states without a state income tax, those bills are higher than in states with an income tax, it seems.

Fortunately, we also have a property tax refund that gives us some of it back, based on our income. We also have a state income tax, which is quite progressive. Our annual state income taxes are less than the property tax rebate.

But, if you own a home, you probably know what your property taxes will be in advance.

This year I turn 65 so it will drop about $500 and stay there.

Housing costs went down a lot, but the bill went down only a touch, then it started going back up again.

We have no age exemption until 70, and even then, you have to qualify for it based on both assets and income.

And, like another poster, if that is your yearly bill, double it, even triple it for me and I'll still be very happy.

Stuff costs money.

It's like the government is leasing the land to you. If you truly owned it, there would be no more taxes. Property taxes are a sham and need to be abolished. At the very least for property valued under 1 million.

Rand also wants taxes completely abolished, which I think is silly. I'm sorry though, but I never was too thrilled with certain taxes. Property taxes are a joke. If I but a TV, I don 't have to pat the tax yearly. I just pay it once and that's it.

I have also always hated taxes on used items. The government got the sale once on the item purchased, and that should be it.

Your real estate taxes, like sales and use taxes, go for schools, police, firefighters, snow removal, street repair, courts, sewers, garbage pickup, your local and state government and other things that benefit you 24/7simply because you live in your town.

Members of a society have to share the costs of that society. On the state and local level, we do that with real estate taxes, sales taxes and, if your state has them, state income taxes, There's no free lunch.

I don't own the electricity I use. I own my house and the land it's on, or so I thought.

(And, seriously, I'd love other suggestions; the current system gives more money to already-rich districts, which is a problem.)

Does every state even have a property tax?

Higher taxes I'm all down with.

AFAIK every state has a non-zero property tax rate.

Doesn't sound like much to some but when you are a Senior and live on 1 SS check, it is a huge chunk. Will live the next month on much of nothing. I can live on tomato soup, my kitty would not understand.

in early spring along with my income taxes and my first quarterly estimated taxes for the entire year. So, basically, I pay out big time every quarter, none as huge as spring though. My insurance costs more than my taxes though. I only have .684 of an acre though (on the homemade sign, it said .666 acres, they saw me coming and knew how to advertise to me).

When we decided to rebuild on our lot where the house burned in 2007--but the detached
garage with studio apartment above it did not--one of the reasons we told ourselves we could
afford it was that we could probably generate enough income from renting the studio apartment
to cover our property taxes. Huh. (And we kept to a budget so we could rebuild without a mortgage.)

We are at the top of the market renting the studio apartment for $725/month to a grad student
at UNC (we are walking distance to campus and the apt. usually rents quickly) but after
the county revalued our property with the new house on it, we are short by a couple thousand
to cover the taxes. Plus, this year we had to put a new roof on the garage ($3500) AND the tenant
just told me he's not getting hot water, so the 13 year old water heater is being replaced
next week for $1000.

We thought we were being so smart. Huh. We should have dumped the lot for what we could get
out of it and not rebuilt. It just seems like you can never get ahead.

I now wait for their check. Which will pay the final enstallemt of my school tax bill.

of the NYC border.

We can afford it, but I don't know how young people or retirees can afford to stay.

What future does a community have if young people can't live here?

Even if you "pay down" your house, if you don't pay your property taxes, guess what? County seizes your house.

The most you can hope for if you "pay down" your house is that your just merely reducing your rental payments, hopefully to a low amount.

What a ridiculous complaint.

If you are really so unhappy about being a property owner then stop being one. Hell, you might as well go all in and try being homeless. No property, no property taxes. Problem solved.