Also, no shit vaccines contain live viruses. That's the fucking point.

...as a pediatric nurse practitioner, I have seen any number of parents over the years who have caused me to wish parenthood were a licensed profession. The ability to juxtapose genitalia and procreate is an insufficient qualification. It often seems as if there is an inverse relationship between ability and fertility .

as an RT-a radiologic technologist certified and registered by the AART....awww hell yes. I have taken way too many images od kids that could have been prevented by the kids' guardian getting the vax. way too many this impacts more then the kid & parents.

Just no, no, no, no, no!!!

Fine - no further contact was a bit strong, but not giving the vaccines is absolutely child abuse.

and should be reserved for ONLY the most serious parental acts. Not vaccinating is wrong headed, but it doesn't come close to child abuse. And using the FORCE of the government to rip families apart is the worst kind of governmental overreach. People who advocate for this are fascists.

I know people who don't vaccinate their kids. They are good parents; they are simply wrong on this issue.

They are NOT good parents. Their overwhelming lack of intelligence renders them unfit.

There is an easy solution to not having the kids taken away and it only takes a minute. Get the damn shots. Problem fucking solved.

is the ignorance of people who are willing to say "My way or the highway," and cause untold anguish to people and their children.

Let's make the punishment fit the crime, dammit!


Perhaps my hyperbole will highlight the absurdity of your suggestion. I'm pretty sure that no court in the land currently identifies non-vaccination, in itself, as actionable child abuse, so your accusation is preposterous.

Ripping the children away from these misguided but, arguably, well-meaning parents will traumatize the children and burden an already over-strained foster care program.

Better to educate the parents. I'm not aware of any court-ordered vaccinations for children, but that might feasibly be an option if a particular case otherwise demonstrates a real threat to the children.

You will find no stronger pro-vaccination advocate here than me, but even I see your suggestion as ridiculous.


Unless it's a joke, in which case I say "well played."

I still think it is child abuse and forced vaccinations should be considered.

One of my hippie granola friends really wrestled with this when she started to have kids. I was in nursing school at the time so I was well armed with what the diseases had been like before we had vaccines. It was also in New England, where family graveyards would have one man, three to five wives in succession, and many tiny headstones for children who didn't make it.

She got her kids vaccinated. She wasn't stupid, far from it, she just didn't remember her own experiences with those diseases and didn't know how deadly they were.

No shit right

Those are some dumb people right there

Chiros also attend 4 years of med school, 2 years internship and residency plus 2 more years of chiro school. They are not dumb.

"Look well to the spine for the cause of disease"

Hippocrates 370 BC

The parents on the other hand are dumb!

Chiros can't just get a license without first being an MD.

Chiropractors are not MDs ... they do not attend medical school

The initials after their names are DC, not MD. They do NOT go to medical school.

Perhaps you are thinking of DOs - doctors of osteopathy.

You might be confused with an Osteopath. A chiropractor is nowhere close to an MD.

He attended UK medical school and was in family practice for 17 years prior to becoming a chiro.

...happens to have been an MD first. It is most emphatically not a requirement in the US.

There are without a doubt many beneficial chiropractors, the one you dealt with in the past who taught you all of this was not one of them. Well, they were smart enough to find the perfect patient.

"Chiros also attend 4 years of med school, 2 years internship and residency plus 2 more years of chiro school."

Chiros do not attend medical school. They go to a chiropractic 'college' and that's it.

If you've got a situation where something in your muscles or skeleton is slightly off, a chiropractor can help.

Problem is the folks that claim chiropractors can cure all sorts of things beyond "my back hurts".

But yes, many chiropractors do dramatically overstate things. My personal favorite is that chiropractic work can prevent cancer.

And she did. But that's really all I hoped for. The rest is false advertising and the ones doing it should be called on it.

once told me that he could help get me pregnant!!!

Seriously?

Talk about overstating things.

That thought crossed my mind, but I walked out of there before I could find out any more.

Look....a man doesn't need to be a chiropractor to offer that kind of help.

the creep factor was strong with that dr. of chiro.

And that's when I knew that he was a quack.

dies from one of the diseases that could have been prevented by vaccination, those parents will find a lawyer to take the case that they should have been forced to vaccinate.

the stupidity runs rampant in the good old U.S. of A.

They should not be allowed contact with normal society.

If you are so anti-social as to be an anti-vaxxer, the law should force you to take it all the way and remove you from society.

This scorn and off with their heads attitude on DU where during the 80's liberals were the home of the voice of rationality against the idiots calling for the isolation and quarantine of HIV patients or any gay man because he 'might' have HIV only because he was gay ?

Also DU, one place of rational discourse against the ebola quarantine hysteria.

On this site a call to isolate or take away children because of a lack of vaccination ?

What are your feelings about the tens of thousands unvaccinated illegals in your schools from last summers influx ? Remove them from society also ?

pfaw !!

If they are going to be that anti-social, force them to take it all the way. COMPLETELY ISOLATE THEM!

They're the ones refusing vaccinations, they should be completely isolated from the rest of society because of it.

right wing corporatist tendencies. After you read enough of this right wing crap couched in "scientific" rationalizations you can spot who are the republicans that are just too embarrassed by their own party to admit it.

There are a number of RW'ers posing as über-leftist crackpots who hate all things Democratic, and play the role of the most stereotypical, disfunctional "progressive" one can imagine.

Their goal is to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) and depress would-be supporters of Democratic candidates and incumbents by bemoaning the two-party system with the constant whine that both parties are the same!!11!

One of my favorite lines by a DU'er regarding one of these poseurs:

"I can't decide whether you're a caricature or a cliche'."

You Better Believe It!

are the same, regardless of whether they have a D or R after their name. If my kid gets cancer from drinking fracking fluid out of my water tap, I don't care what letter the politician who is responsible happens to have after his name. Except that the right wingers with a D after their name may be more dangerous since they often times are close enough to stab you in the back.

The rest of your post is gibberish.

to process some of my post, at least.

Speaking of "gibberish," that would describe your post in its entirety.

Appreciate the demonstration, nonetheless.

eta: bottom line, your troll theory is a bit misguided and silly.

They bring their children. Some are not vaccinated. The local health department goes in to the camp and explains that there are vaccinations available at no cost for their children. They explain what the vaccinations prevent. Guess what usually happens next? The parents gladly accept the vaccinations.

Vaccination is a simple solution. So simple even Sarah Palin could do it.

Isolating HIV people - not at all equivalent. No simple solution to fix HIV.

What, will the line stretch to the crack of doom! (Macbeth)

is in a huge uproar about "asshole" parents who don't vaccinate their kids.

I'm sorry there hasn't been the same outraged reaction to parents who neglect their kids in so many other ways, to parents who refuse mental health services for their kids, to parents who neglect and abuse their kids in so many other ways. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think that, while regrettable, the percentage of parents who don't vaccinate their kids is quite small in comparison to those who neglect and abuse in all those other ways.

But then, I deal with kids who've experienced all those other abuses every single day at work, and while DU seems to think differently, my school district, at least, still requires children to be vaccinated to attend public school, so I don't see all those un-vaccinated kids.

if someone abuses or neglects their own kid, it mainly affects the poor kid. An anti-vaxxer can affect many others with the unwelcome fruits of their idiotic decisions (i.e. a newborn who hasn't received vaccinations yet, people with compromised immune systems, etc.).

Except when neglect and abuse are generational, and when the abused grows up to be an abuser.

And again, at least where I live, parents are required to get vaccinations to send kids to school, and parents are required to engage in some sort of education for their children. There are loopholes, of course, and they should be closed.

I don't, myself, subscribe to the "it's okay to hurt your own kid as long as you don't hurt other people's" point of view.

And, yet again, I would ask: what percentage of children are harmed every day by other forms of neglect and abuse as opposed to vaccinations?

I'd just like those kids suffering other forms of neglect and abuse to get some equal time and attention. That's all.

together a storm of outrage "for the good of the children" when there are $billions at stake, but when it comes to kids going hungry, under supervised, under educated, etc.. where there are not $billions in profit at stake, there are mostly ... crickets.

BTW, that take-no-prisoners, zero tolerance for less than strict 100% agreement attack strategy plays itself out on every vaccination thread and seems to align precisely with the Merck PR strategy playbook.

You clearly know NOTHING about vaccines and how they work. As far as entirely preventable diseases go, yes we are "take-no-prisoners", especially when the anti-vaxxers parade their ignorant nonsense, like you have. And in fact, in our capitalistic society, pharmaceutical companies do have a right to turn a profit. They do take much of the risk in drug development (most of which do not actually pan out). I'm not sure they are quite the evil monsters they are made out to be by the woo-wooers on the left.

The following is a blog post running down the profits regarding flu vaccines:

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/flu-vaccine-myth-big-pharma-profits/

Vaccines WORK. The diseases they prevent can KILL. Ask Roald Dahl (you know the famous author, long since deceased) who had a few things to say about vaccines. His daughter died from measles, in the days before vaccines. He wrote this letter 24 years later:

http://www.roalddahlfans.com/articles/meas.php

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

It is not yet generally accepted that measles can be a dangerous illness. Believe me, it is. In my opinion parents who now refuse to have their children immunised are putting the lives of those children at risk. In America, where measles immunisation is compulsory, measles like smallpox, has been virtually wiped out.

Here in Britain, because so many parents refuse, either out of obstinacy or ignorance or fear, to allow their children to be immunised, we still have a hundred thousand cases of measles every year. Out of those, more than 10,000 will suffer side effects of one kind or another. At least 10,000 will develop ear or chest infections. About 20 will die.

I got all my vaccinations. So did my kids. So do most kids. The number of kids who don't get the foundation of physical and mental/social safety and care needed to grow into a functioning adult from their parents, though, staggers me.

I was lucky and did not get it. She has been legally blind ever since. I mean it is correctable so she can drive, but take off those glasses and she can not see anything but vague colors.
when i was 2 she got whooping cough. I don't remember that either, but somehow did not get it, probably due to my mother getting me out of the house. I did get 3 different kinds of measles and mumps and chicken pox 3 times, and getting it as an older teen sucks, the scabs were internal as well as external, I had to keep my eyes close to I did not scratch my lenses because it was in my eyelids and in the summer my mother taped oven mitts on my hands driving me nuts with hot hands.

when I was 7 they came out with Polio vaccine, the school was already filled with kids in braces and wheel chairs.

I could not deny any kid a vaccine that could help them, I am so glad they had the shots for Small Pox and Diphtheria already.

right before the vaccine came out. What they must have suffered, thinking "if only ..."

he too as legally blind but correctable and had flat feet and a curved spine - but still got drafted to Vietnam the same year GWB got into the national guard with his drunken druggy self. Yes, I had a personal hatred of him. Of course ex's mom spoiled him so he had a major midlife crisis with red corvette and younger girlfriend, and his natural selfish tendencies and I understand he is now tea party, so my old sympathy is severely challenged thinking of that.

Iron lungs look absolutely terrifying...Sorry your ex turned out to be such a creep.

mother terrified about polio and having to visit him inthe hospital, did things like cut his meat until he was an adult and stuff like that. He had his understanding for anyone who was ill, except me, haha, who he thought ws indestructible like his mother, even though she died before she was 60. I just think looking at the world gave him the idea that women should serve men, and even though we married in the 60's and I certainly made my viewpoint available, he eventually slowly went back on his ideas.

It is funny to see that he is not happily married now even though he got the stay at home wife he said he wanted (but could not afford,hee, I was the bread winner) and tells his friends he made a mistake, he freed me, so no complaints. For some reason when I start somethng be it job or marriage, I tried to win at it. competitiveness is in your genes.

I might have grown up in a foster home if this happened today. This is probably not what anyone here wants to hear. I remember it all very well, unlike my measles, chicken pox, mumps, or rubella as a child under 2.

I remember the fever. Soaking the bed sheets in sweat. Mom and Nana putting cold washclothes on my head. I just wanted to sleep. I did go to sleep and dreamed. I talked out loud in my "delusional" dream state of what I was seeing. Mom told me later for YEARS she was horrified at what as a child I was saying in my sleep. I remembered afterward that dream and still can see it in my mind's eye as an adult. Not going to say here what it was. Better for a religion topic.

I had a 105 temperature for at least 24 hours. In the midst of that dream, my Nana put me in a tub of cold water. Oh, I remember that. VERY COLD. I remember my whole body shaking. I was then picked up and wrapped in a blanket. I remember screaming. Then I fell into a very peaceful sleep. When I woke up, my fever was totally gone.

I was out of school for half the year. I was very weak, but I was an underweight and sickly child to begin with. Dad tutored me at home, which I liked. Once my fever had broken, my friends came to see me at home.

My Nana always used to say that everything in life happens for a reason. She said the same for my Scarlet Fever. Hindsight 60 years later? I think so, but again not going to get into religion on this.

and a baby. I don't think that no matter how bad your mouth was anyone would give you away. You were just a small child.
But is is so good people get vaccinated against that today.

It comes from complications from Strep. Sure antibioltics were given back in those days, but I had a strep a lot and if the antibiotics are given over and over, eventually the body develops resistance to them and they don't work.

ell, that is scary considering their overuse.

...to antibiotics. The bacteria do.

Over the course of my pediatric career, it has been a relief to see a great increase in the number of parents who say, "Oh, good," when I tell them their child does not need an antibiotic, instead of the facial expression that clearly says, "Oh, shit. You mean you're not going to give him/her anything?"

I happen to agree with them and have only ME to refuse vaccinations for. Do I as an asshole adult have that right for what I wish to be put into my own elderly body? I absolve those who refuse vaccintions to protect ELDERLY me. I ain't your poster child for your herd immunity.

If I refuse not just vaccinations, but all preventative medicine which medicine thinks might SAVE a life (if we can save just ONE LIFE mentality). can I opt out? OF COURSE I can.

You can write from the iron lung.

You're opting out for hundreds of others. Without their consent.

Don't want cancer treatment? Go right ahead, it's just you.

Don't want a vaccine that has already been given to billions of people, claiming it's unsafe, despite the lack of billions of people made ill by the vaccine? And you know that doing so can kill other people? That makes someone an asshole. Just like drunk driving makes someone an asshole.

Or do get it, but don't give a damn about anyone but yourself.

...unless There is some scientifically justifiable reason for you to not vaccinate.

aren't you safe? Ciao.

To be vaccinated to be effective. Vaccines don't always take in everyone. It's public health, not individual health.

This is the selfish, American attitude (which I know occurs elsewhere as well), that it's "my life/body/property, "I'll do whatever the fuck I want and to hell with everyone else".

The anti-vaxxers are in good company with billionaire tax scofflaws and Tea Party idiots. Nice company they keep.

Not even the smallpox vaccinations were and we've been able to eradicate that disease.

But people like you make polio eradication impossible. We've been close for about two decades, but antiVax idiocy has kept it from being completed.

Do you not fucking understand the concept of herd immunity?

You CAN CAUSE OTHER PEOPLE TO DIE. You are selfish and ignorant.

there are consequences.

I realize that all you've posted are your fears of consequences for yourself, the consequences of your actions for others doesn't seem to rate in your decision.

First, you have said on DU many times that you smoke.

So let me understand, you're more worried about a vaccine's impact on your body, than you are about a cigarette's impact on your body?

You know that didn't make sense to me until, I read that you said:

What's the "or something" I wonder?

idiot.

I was hoping she would just fade away forever. I really do think she is a danger to society.

No, I do not seek out medical care for myself, my SENIOR, self. Is Medicare watching that I am not complying with all of their Wellness, including vaccinations, program? It would not surprise me, but they aren't sending me nasty non-compliance emails like work did

but that's all I use him for-and that's all he does. $20, no insurance accepted, in and out with no extras. He works on all the old farmers in the area and they don't want to hear anything besides the sound of a pop.

Vaccinations, otoh-I've vaccinated my kid against everything under the sun. When I worked in a hab center I saw what could happen to some of the individuals when they contracted various diseases. After seeing what I saw and reading the charts there was no way I could not vaccinate. Knowing what I know would make me a pathetic excuse for a parent if I chose not to vaccinate.

College student obviously was not a little child. No articles on this state whether he was vaccinated or not. If he/she wasn't, as an adult they would not need Mommy or Daddy's permission to vaccinate him/herself. CPS cannot take a adult child away from their parent and force him/her to be vaccinated against their OWN wishes. We had discussion a while ago with the 17 year old who didn't want chemo. Didn't we all agree that once she turned 18 and was an adult, she could choose her own medical care?

In addition to traveling on Amtrak from Penn Station to Rheinbeck, NY, one, and only one, article said the student had just flown back from Germany where he spent winter break. Would the people on the plane, besides Penn Station and Amtrak been exposed also???? Germany. That is hardly a 3rd world country. That article said it is assumed he contracted measles while in Germany.

Two aspects of all these cases media and health organizations are never saying. Were these adults both in Disney and now NYC, vaccinated or not?Up to date on boosters? If both adult carriers were vaccinated it probably means their vaccinations did not work. Second, will this country somehow force adults to be vaccinated for any and all vaccinations that the CDC "suggests? I have read comments that people think new laws should be enacted to do just that. No vacations or boosters and no getting on planes, traveling from state to state, and even no employment. No vaccination = no jobs. Say you had these diseases as child? PROVE your immunity with a blood draw or get these vaccinations. Round up all these people, including adults without children, and put them in a quarantine camp (mean ghetto?). They cannot get out until they get vaccinated.

This is far, FAR more frightening to me than any contagious diseases. America? Think Germany today, where that student traveled to, would ever cooperate with America on something like this?

To say such a thing one would have to be a Republican or crazy (but then I repeat myself), or be compensated to say such a thing.

It is completely incompatible with democracy. And there are so many greater threats to our health which are more immediate and slippery slopes that we will not recover from which receive much less outrage, such as leaking carcinogens from fracking into our drinking water, so that one can only assume that this is about MONEY and not the public health threat.

but people seem to think that little unvaccinated children are spreading these diseases, when adults are walking around unvaccinated, undervaccinated, or even vaccinated spreading them.

Personally, I blame the media and health organizations for inciting all this, especially with not giving out enough information on the circumstances of these adult carriers. You need to really search for info. Two adult carriers (status not reported) who contracted measles in foreign countries. Yet, media spreads the word that it is unvaccinated children which it clearly isn't.

People need to do their own research and not get worked up into a frenzy over what the media is saying.

than that people do exactly that, and don't pay attention to the extremists.

Most "mainstream" media has a proven track record of not reporting any facts that might cost it advertising revenue, so it is pretty much worthless as a source for unbiased reporting.

The OP's title reminded me of the right wing tenet that poor people shouldn't be allowed to have children. It's sickening to see a similar sentiment expressed on DU as well, when education would solve a large part of the ignorance involved with vaccines. Banning procreation rights of any human being, certainly doesn't represent the party I joined forty years ago and have been loyal to up til this point. It reveals a viciousness I want no part of.

Ain't that the truth!

Chiropractic has been shown to offer some benefit for back, neck and joint pain, but these practitioners need to shut their stupid yaps about vaccinations. I'd go so far as to say that any practitioner who campaigns against vaccination should have his or her license revoked on the grounds that they constitute an active threat to public health.


k/r

Not that I believe any of the "autism is caused by vaccines" hokum, but they are basically saying they would rather their kids die than be autistic. That's fucked up, EXTREMELY fucked up.

or in the glove compartment, or their purses or pockets.

Total idiot assholes who should be sterilized or have their children confiscated.

FUCKING NOT!

Panic? What the fuck is wrong with her? People don't panic and go get a shot! People get a vaccination shot, because it is sound medical science! Autistic people come in all shapes and sizes, what the fuck are people being told that makes them think a child with autism is dead to the world?

Same dumbass people that believe in ancient aliens or bigfoot. Poor children, I hope they don't get sick and die...these parents suck hard and their kids will pay for it down the line I bet.

And...NEWS FLASH!...there are autistic people ALL AROUND YOU RIGHT NOW LADY! What? You didn't know that? Add that to the endless list of things she and her husband doesn't know.