measure timbre or what it means here.

thanks in advance to anyone who can answer.

Sort of like the sounds of different instruments are more blurred together so you can't as easily distinguish them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbre

In music, timbre (/ˈtæmbər/ TAM-bər or /ˈtɪmbər/ TIM-bər) also known as tone color or tone quality from psychoacoustics, is the quality of a musical note, sound, or tone that distinguishes different types of sound production, such as voices and musical instruments, string instruments, wind instruments, and percussion instruments. The physical characteristics of sound that determine the perception of timbre include spectrum and envelope.

In simple terms, timbre is what makes a particular musical sound different from another, even when they have the same pitch and loudness. For instance, it is the difference between a guitar and a piano playing the same note at the same loudness. Experienced musicians are able to distinguish between different instruments of the same type based on their varied timbres, even if those instruments are playing notes at the same pitch and loudness.

mean that music used to be more distinguishable but now is muddier and louder?

Don't consumers control that? I would imagine in the recording studio they probably keep the volume meters below peak volume (to avoid distortion) like they always have. (Note: I know nothing about recording music)

As you say, the peak volume is limited by the point at which the equipment will start distorting the signal. If you look at a waveform of a typical uncompressed recording of rock/pop, it tends to have a sawtooth pattern with big peaks for the drums, and valleys between the beats. With compression, you can lower these peaks (and also raise the volume of the quieter parts, which allows for the overall volume to be perceived as louder. Here's a good illustration of the difference between a compressed and uncompressed signal:

Great explanation and illustration! I really appreciate your taking the time and your attention to detail! I've learned something new today!

I'm fat

I'm dead.

Good improvement on two worthless songs.

n the 19th century, Italian composer Giuseppe Verdi tried to stop the increase in pitch to which orchestras were tuned. In 1874 he wrote his Requiem using the official French standard diapason normal pitch of A tunned to 435 Hz. Later, he indicated that 432 Hz would be slightly better for orchestra


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch

A440 or A4, which has a frequency of 440 Hz, is the musical note A above middle C and serves as a general tuning standard for musical pitch.

Prior to the standardization on 440 Hz, many countries and organizations followed the Austrian government's 1885 recommendation of 435 Hz. The American music industry reached an informal standard of 440 Hz in 1926, and some began using it in instrument manufacturing. In 1936 the American Standards Association recommended that the A above middle C be tuned to 440 Hz.[1] This standard was taken up by the International Organization for Standardization in 1955 (reaffirmed by them in 1975) as ISO 16.[2] Although not universally accepted, since then it has served as the audio frequency reference for the calibration of acoustic equipment and the tuning of pianos, violins, and other musical instruments.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A440_(pitch_standard)







When sound waves move through a physical medium (sand, air, water, etc.) the frequency of the waves has a direct effect upon the structures which are created by the sound waves as they pass through that particular medium.







Frequency and Vibration hold a critically important yet hidden power to affect our lives, our health, our society and our world. The science of Cymatics proves that Frequency and Vibration are the master keys and organizational foundation for the creation of all matter and life on this planet. Music has a hidden power to affect our minds, our bodies, our thoughts, and our society



Cymatics: A Study of Wave Phenomena & Vibration


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics

The LaRouchites also think the Bush family are war criminals and the sun rises in the morning

Fallacies of relevance

(arguments ad hominem) attempt to discredit a point of view by discrediting the person that holds it. The character of the person that holds a view, though, entails nothing about the truth of that view. Such arguments therefore commit a fallacy of relevance.


It is a fallacy of distraction, and is committed when a listener attempts to divert an arguer from his argument by introducing another topic. This can be one of the most frustrating, and effective, cum hoc fallacy is committed when it is assumed that because two things occur together, they must be causally related fallacies to observe.

Have a look at this:

Cognitive Neuropsychiatry. 2014 Jan 24
Amelioration of psychiatric symptoms through exposure to music individually adapted to brain rhythm disorders -- a randomized clinical trial on the basis of fundamental research.
by Muller W., Haffelder G, Schlotmann A, Schaefers AT, Teuchert-Noodt G.

Abstract

Introduction:
This pilot study examined, whether long-term exposure of psychiatric patients to music that was individually adapted to brain rhythm disorders associated with psychosis could act to ameliorate psychiatric symptoms. Methods A total of 50 patients with various psychiatric diagnoses were randomized in a 1:1 ratio to listen to CDs containing either music adapted to brain rhythm anomalies associated with psychoticism -- measured via a specific spectral analysis -- or standard classical music.

Participants were instructed to listen to the CDs over the next 18 months. Psychiatric symptoms in both groups were assessed at baseline and at 4, 8 and 18 months, using the Brief Symptom Inventory (BSI).

Results:
At 18 months, patients in the experimental group showed significantly decreased BSI scores compared to control patients. Intriguingly, this effect was not only seen for symptoms of psychosis and paranoia but also for anxiety, phobic anxiety and somatisation.

Conclusions Exposure to the adapted music*(see below) was effective in ameliorating psychotic, anxiety and phobic symptoms. Based on the theories of neuro-plasticity and brain rhythms, it can be hypothesized that this intervention may be enhancing brain-rhythm synchronization and plasticity in prefrontal-hippocampal circuits that are implicated in both psychosis/paranoia and anxiety/phobic anxiety.

*"adapted music" = (excerpt from report) "This "Mozart effect" can be intensified by playing the music composition slightly decelerated (as practiced in the days of Mozart). Furthermore, the instruments are tuned to the old French pitch of 432 Hz which corresponds to the harmonic ratio of natural body rhythms including ..."

While the above study doesn't claim that 440 Hz causes psychotic symptoms, paranoia and anxiety, listening to it did nothing to relieve the symptoms. And the 432 did improve these disorders! So... what do you make of that?

Below is a relatively short piece by Mozart (the 432 Hz composer featured in the experiment). Have a listen and see if it improves your mood.

Maybe Eddie Van Halen wasnt just slacking ( ) when he asked "whoever said A had to be 440?"

Tuning A4 = 432hz

I've noted a significant difference in the overall sound. Especially when when resolving dissonance. Most markedly when introducing two notes back to back that are of large intervals.

although I don't know what pitch, i'm tuning to be at a 432 or 440 tone, or both....depending on who I am tuning..... never got it tested except with a electronic tuning fork hooked to Mz machine..........they never told me at 8


But I know listening to the Mozart piece on both it does really change my mood about the piece. I like both but the 432 in that forte is superior



528hz is suppose to be another vibration to look at .....BUT I want to see more data

Plus each planet in the solar system has their individual unique vibration The Earth's frequency or rate of vibration was thought to be constant. When NASA started measuring this in hertz it was at 7.8. Now it is at 11.2,has been measured as high as 14 and is speeding up.

The 7.8 and the 11hz you should look at in relationship to
what else vibrates at that

Ancient chanting was done for a reason


Interesting about dissonance in the vibration differences you found in musical applications


Dissonance


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedi

Dissonance has several meanings, all related to conflict or incongruity:


Consonance and dissonance in music are properties of an interval or chord (the quality of a discord)


Cognitive dissonance is a state of mental conflict


Dissonance in poetry is the deliberate avoidance of assonance, i.e. patterns of repeated vowel sounds. Dissonance in poetry is similar to cacophony and the opposite of euphony.


Cultural dissonance is an uncomfortable sense experienced by people in the midst of change in their cultural environment.


Music and Poetry then the mind and social

INTERESTING THREAD FOR ME.

I have been ear training for quite some time, however have yet to achieve perfect pitch.

My area of study is simply in music theory itself without much of the science behind it. That has become more of a hobby on the very basic level.

Most of my understanding comes from simply reading a few books centered around the cognitive neuroscience of music. I found two that were very well suited for the layman, who does not have a higher level of understanding of neuroscience. My education is on the theory behind music with a little bit of the science of acoustics. I can't tell you why one small part of the brain will process a C# and another a B, but I can tell you that the drums will sound way better if you can open the room up to allow it to share airspace with another room of equal size, yet not sound as good in a room that is simply twice as big.

The beauty of music and sound in general to me is that it is all relative. No two people hear it in the same way. That said, we do process it similarly unless there is an abnormality in the brain. I enjoy using dissonance, as it adds a layer to the complexity of the piece. Dissonance to our ears always wants to resolve, and a good composer will always make it interesting. Harold Arlen (Somewhere Somewhere Over the Rainbow) and the Police (Roxanne) are two examples of using the exact same dissonance, but in two completely unique ways. Judy' Garland's first two notes contained in the word "Somewhere" in the start of the song, is a rather difficult to sing full octave jump from C4 up to C5. Without going into crazy details, the size of the interval bothers our brain a bit, so Arlen brilliantly brings in a dissonant note only a half step down from the C4 (the Maj 7th), for the "O" sound in over, which is just begging to be resolved to that 5th (the G) when she sings "ver" part of the word. Then it gently glides up the scale. Then for the remainder of the verse the intervals are no longer that large, leaving you with a comfortable feeling and simple yet brilliant resolutions.

Now Sting on the other hand, takes the exact same leap of interval (Key of B flat), and the same dissonant note (Maj 7th) yet he is stretching the limits of his range, and after belting out that jump in the word "Roxanne", he falls back to that 7th, but instead of bringing it down he continues to bounce around it at the very high end of his range, only to finally bring it to resolution on that F when he sings the word "light".

Same interval, same dissonant note, same resolution note. Completely different application.

and then created his schools based on vibration and mathematics and his theory of the vibration of the spheres and thought music could heal............ well he's a good read

String theory also deals with vibration on the basic level which is interesting


The military and other agencies are well
aware of the science and applications of this insight which can contrbute to the full spectrum dominance in their goals

I'm sure that I'll find interesting patterns.

then I am going to be a problem for them. They can play whatever they want. I don't listen to much music on the radio.

tools.

There's good music out there, it's just not necessarily on the 5 or 6 big FM radio stations that serve most large metro areas.

Robotized music programming for robotized minds leaving just the right mental flavor to fill your voids with advertising and the "correct" consumer attitudes. The machines took over long ago.

The few times I'm exposed to it by co-workers is absolutely brutal to endure.

I was in a store in Japan the other day where they were playing some truly gawdawful rap crap on the PA system. It was enough to make me my guts out.

.... and it hasn't been for at least 2 decades, probably longer.


I am a voracious listener of music and there are plenty of ways to find new things to listen to besides radio. Broadcast radio is almost universally useless. I tried satellite radio about a decade ago and I was very impressed at first but when I found that most of the music station playlists did not change for a year I realized it was a fraud also.

Finding new artists that aren't me-too whores is difficult, but not impossible thanks to the internet.

life depended on it.

http://player.warpradio.com/alohajoe/



Linda Dela Cruz, Hawaii's Canary

It's a phenomenal site, and the owner keeps adding pages to it. If you donate literally just a few dollars, you can unlock those newer pages. One of my favorite is called "Healing Water" of sounds taken a mountain trail in Slovenia. The clarity of the birdsong is amazing! I often put that one on when writing or drawing.

You'll enjoy it, and I hope you have a wonderful sleep

Marking for later - this may have to replace my current trains-in-the-rain white noise sleep track. Thanks!

One feature that's available to those who donate is the ability to play multiple sound-pages at once. (You can do that, too, with just multiple tabs open in your browser.) You could then combine your trains and rain sound, and customize both

Take the "it all sounds the same" crown from Country.

The is a plethora of small community public stations throughout the nation with mostly volunteer DJs that kick ass out of the Clear Channel opposition. Step out of the Borg and find out for yourself.

... in Dallas. It is much better than typical broadcast radio, but the programmers have what I consider to be very narrow tastes, certain genres get played and played and others never do.

and we have small community station in just about every town. We do have mountain terrain that restricts the size of signals making each station unique. I can travel from Aspen to Telluride and pick up on 6 different stations, all of which are wonderful. All have been started by their community and staffed with volunteers.

.. university-related stations but those are all gone except for KNTU, which specializes in jazz.

There is very little small-scale broadcasting in Texas

Many of us in local community radio got our chops at school. There still are a few excellent stations across the land.

I'm sure there are other online stations that compare, but I have found I can mention to soma fm to some people (usually geeks) and they'll then ask what's my favorite channel

Here's the main page with all 28 channels so you can see if they have the genres you like

Now if they had a channel that mixed most of these genres in a way that reflected the present-----it would be more to my taste.
Thanks

www.kvnf.org
www.kdnk.org
www.koto.org
www.wwoz.org------This being the definitive New Orleans Music station!
Thanks for the links.

That's a nice list. I looked at their program schedules and might have to give some of them a try

Locally, I listen to KPFT.org, but these days only for a show called "Technology Bytes" (computer news and on-air help.) I know the people that run it, and it's a fun show.

I'm listening to WWOZ now

NPR interview, "The Loudness Wars, Why Music Sounds Worse":

http://www.npr.org/2009/12/31/122114058/the-loudness-wars-why-music-sounds-worse

…………………………

Perfecting Sound Forever, Greg Milner:

Tracing the contours of this history, Greg Milner takes us through the major breakthroughs and glorious failures in the art and science of recording. An American soldier monitoring Nazi radio transmissions stumbles onto the open yet revolutionary secret of magnetic tape. Japanese and Dutch researchers build a first-generation digital audio format and watch as their “compact disc” is marketed by the music industry as the second coming of Edison yet derided as heretical by analog loyalists. The music world becomes addicted to volume in the nineties and fights a self-defeating “loudness war” to get its fix.


http://www.amazon.com/Perfecting-Sound-Forever-History-Recorded/dp/0865479380

is the reason to have a real stereo system like this



or this



Strangely, a lot of electronic music and dance music is superbly recorded.

I owned a few of their products back when I could afford them in the 1970s and 1980s.

(the top and bottom boxes, the lower being the power supply) and a Reference 5 SE line stage.