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Chemisse

(30,814 posts)
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 08:29 AM Feb 2015

The science behind Brian Williams’s mortifying memory flub

The science behind Brian Williams’s mortifying memory flub

When we tell stories about our lives, most of us never have our memories questioned. NBC's Brian Williams, like other high-profile people in the past, is finding out what happens when questions arise.

Williams's faux pas – retelling a story of his helicopter coming under fire in Iraq a dozen years ago when it was actually the helicopter flying ahead of him – was much like Hillary Rodham Clinton's during the 2008 presidential campaign. Her story was about coming under fire during a visit to an airfield in Bosnia 12 years earlier. George W. Bush also misremembered when, on several occasions, he told audiences that on 9/11 he watched the first plane fly into the north tower of the World Trade Center on TV, just before entering that classroom in Florida to read a book to school kids. In each case, these were highly emotional moments. Williams's helicopter made an emergency landing in the desert behind the aircraft that was hit; Clinton was made to don a flak jacket and was told her airplane might not be able to land at the airport in Bosnia because of sniper fire in the area; and Bush was told by an aide about the first crash into World Trade Center just before entering the classroom.

That each of those memories was false created huge public relations headaches for Clinton and Williams. But the fact is that false memories are not that uncommon, especially when they involve highly emotional events.

Scientists have been telling us for years that memory of autobiographical events, also known as episodic memory, is pliable and even unreliable. The consensus from neuroimaging studies and laboratory experiments is that episodic memory is not like replaying a film but more like reconstructing an event from bits and pieces of information. Memories are stored in clusters of neurons called engrams, and the proteins responsible for storing those memories, scientists say, are modified and changed just by the reconstruction process of remembering.

These findings are just one reason that last year, the U.S. National Research Council recommended that the criminal justice system exert tighter control over the use of eyewitness testimony in court and come up with a more scientific approach to the identification of suspects in police lineups.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/02/05/the-science-behind-brian-williams-mortifying-memory-flub/

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The science behind Brian Williams’s mortifying memory flub (Original Post) Chemisse Feb 2015 OP
True, but it's fun... Mike Nelson Feb 2015 #1
Or maybe he lied. egduj Feb 2015 #2
+1 marym625 Feb 2015 #5
+1 Occum's Razor FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #19
He's a really good guy JimmydaRustler Feb 2015 #3
or, more possibly, he just told fuckin' self aggrandizing lies. lies that got bigger KG Feb 2015 #4
But what if he didn't? Chemisse Feb 2015 #14
the OP talks about human psychology and thus includes YOU as the occasional 'liar' KittyWampus Feb 2015 #15
You should have seen the size of the fish I caught! marym625 Feb 2015 #6
This one time, at band camp... Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #9
Haha! marym625 Feb 2015 #10
Every time you remember something you re-remember it for the next time. AngryAmish Feb 2015 #7
Good point. Memory is so much more pliable than we think it is. Chemisse Feb 2015 #16
It's pretty well known by the scientists that study the mind that rock Feb 2015 #8
There is no medical issue here. former9thward Feb 2015 #11
This may be similar to sunnystarr Feb 2015 #12
This isn't mis-remembering, this is a flat out fucking lie GGJohn Feb 2015 #13
except his helicopter did make an emergency landing. Note- the OP talks about human pyschology KittyWampus Feb 2015 #17
Except that the bird did not make an emergency landing. GGJohn Feb 2015 #18
that doesn't say his helicopter wasn't forced into landing. KittyWampus Feb 2015 #21
Did you read the whole article? GGJohn Feb 2015 #22
It's a pretty big leap from seeing the chopper in front of you go down to... AZ Progressive Feb 2015 #20

KG

(28,752 posts)
4. or, more possibly, he just told fuckin' self aggrandizing lies. lies that got bigger
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 08:55 AM
Feb 2015

and more self-aggrandizing every time he told them.

yeah, that's the ticket!

Chemisse

(30,814 posts)
14. But what if he didn't?
Reply to KG (Reply #4)
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 07:45 PM
Feb 2015

That would seriously suck if this was a mis-remembering, yet the whole nation thinks he is a liar.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
15. the OP talks about human psychology and thus includes YOU as the occasional 'liar'
Reply to KG (Reply #4)
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 07:48 PM
Feb 2015

however unintentional it may be.

Shame you totally missed that.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
7. Every time you remember something you re-remember it for the next time.
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 10:12 AM
Feb 2015

Back in the 80s many day care workers were convicted of crimes they did not do. The young witnesses were coached and sincerely believed they were abused in satanic rituals. Adult daughters accused parents of horrific crimes based on repressed memories, which does not exist. The therapists implanted these memories, usually in good faith.

It is very easy to add details the more you tell a story, because each time you tell a story you reremember it, not reading off a tape recorder. You rerecord it every time.

Williams added details every time he told the story over the years. This is consistent with the science of memory and my experience with eyewitnesses over the years.

Chemisse

(30,814 posts)
16. Good point. Memory is so much more pliable than we think it is.
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 07:48 PM
Feb 2015

We have a lot of faith in what we remember. Usually nobody steps in to dispute our memories - and consequently shake our faith.

rock

(13,218 posts)
8. It's pretty well known by the scientists that study the mind that
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 10:20 AM
Feb 2015

The brain lies to you. It presents an uninterrupted view of the world, and to do so it fills in any missing gaps with .... er, enhanced information.

former9thward

(32,064 posts)
11. There is no medical issue here.
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 11:17 AM
Feb 2015

Williams wanted some bad ass war cred. And he got away with it for 12 years even though NBC knew he was lying.

sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
12. This may be similar to
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 12:13 PM
Feb 2015

being told about an event when you're young then remember it like it was your own memory instead of remembering that it was something you were told.

Also I remember my stepchildren recalling how their family would go on vacations every summer and how much fun they had. There was only ONE vacation. They swore that wasn't true.

There may be many forms of mis-remembering.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
13. This isn't mis-remembering, this is a flat out fucking lie
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 12:27 PM
Feb 2015

Williams told, and kept on telling over the course of 10 years.
You don't mis-remember being forced down due to hostile ground fire.
The ONLY reason Brian Williams fessed up to his lie is because actual soldiers that were on that bird came forward and refuted his lie, otherwise, he would still be claiming he was on that bird.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
17. except his helicopter did make an emergency landing. Note- the OP talks about human pyschology
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 07:49 PM
Feb 2015

and the habits in question are HUMAN which means you and I both occasional tell "lies" unintentionally.

It's kind of sad that some rightwing military decided they are going to take down a reporter they perceive as liberal.

Williams wasn't claiming he fought in the service.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
18. Except that the bird did not make an emergency landing.
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 08:10 PM
Feb 2015

Maybe you should read this.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/06/media/stelter-iraq-pilots/

The pilot I interviewed on Thursday about Brian Williams is no longer standing by his story.

That pilot, Rich Krell, told me he was flying the helicopter Williams was on in Iraq -- an account now contradicted by several other soldiers.

On Friday morning, Krell told me that "the information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories."

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
22. Did you read the whole article?
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 08:34 PM
Feb 2015

Neither bird was fired on, so why would his bird have to make an emergency landing?

"Simeone and Kelly said only two helicopters were in their group, from Company B of the 159th Aviation. They said Krell was piloting the first helicopter. Simeone and Kelly were pilots on the second Chinook, and Miller was in their crew."

The paper continued: "All three said Williams was riding with them, not with Krell. They all said neither bird took fire at any time that day."


AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
20. It's a pretty big leap from seeing the chopper in front of you go down to...
Sat Feb 7, 2015, 08:22 PM
Feb 2015

You believing that you were in the chopper that went down. Two very different experiences there.

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