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Cleita

(75,480 posts)
Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:02 PM Apr 2012

Rhetorical question on wilderness vs. development.

So I'm driving to the beach yesterday through one of our scenic canyons here on the coast of California. I hadn't been down this one in several years. Now this canyon, other than some ugly oil derricks was pretty pristine otherwise in native vegetation and wildlife. I was dismayed to see that a large portion of the land had been cleared and a new vineyards for wine planted. When I first moved here, there were no vineyards, then the wineries started coming in. Just how much wine is needed in the world? Granted vineyards are an attractive replacement, but they way they are done is not ecological and I believe it stresses and marginalize the wildlife even more than it is already.

My question is, although I know it's a fool's errand to try to stop development, just what should the ratio be between development, whether agricultural or structure and land left as wildlife preserves for the original residents of these lands of other species? I say we shouldn't develop more than 30% and leave the rest alone and definitely, we should create wildlife preserves around the waterways, like rivers, creeks and lakes. Are there any studies out there or anyone in the field who has studied this to give me a shove in the right direction to learning more about this?

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Rhetorical question on wilderness vs. development. (Original Post) Cleita Apr 2012 OP
This is what I think should happen lunatica Apr 2012 #1
I do like that idea as it also eliminates the need for pesticides. n/t Cleita Apr 2012 #2
Would love to see this in lots of cities. JNelson6563 Apr 2012 #12
I think a lot of wineries are tax writeoffs. I also noticed that this little hobby of the 1% HiPointDem Apr 2012 #3
Maybe they should only be allowed 1% of the land to Cleita Apr 2012 #4
I still have this questions if anyone wants to chime in. n/t Cleita Apr 2012 #5
I thought you said the question was rhetorical (nt) muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #6
Why would that make a difference? n/t Cleita Apr 2012 #7
Read Aldo Leopold's RobertEarl Apr 2012 #8
Thank you. I will look for it in the library. n/t Cleita Apr 2012 #9
Because people don't expect answers to rhetorical questions muriel_volestrangler May 2012 #18
Answers are nice though. n/t Cleita May 2012 #19
K&R. We don't have to stop development, good planning and making those that profit from it Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #10
Oh, I already have. All of them are GOOPer Rethugs of the worst caliber. n/t Cleita Apr 2012 #11
Without Population Management the Ratio will always be shifting away from wilderness Taitertots Apr 2012 #13
Some of the smaller wineries are organic and pretty cool operations. raouldukelives Apr 2012 #14
Yes, it's a shame how destructive it is. They kill the birds too because they Cleita Apr 2012 #15
I would rather see vineyards than oil derricks. cbayer Apr 2012 #16
I would love to see the derricks go too. n/t Cleita Apr 2012 #17

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
1. This is what I think should happen
Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:13 PM
Apr 2012

Not only will it preserve areas that are pristine now, but it would actually allow millions of acres of 'developed' areas to go wild again. And I truly believe it can be done right now. I can envision buildings like these every few blocks in cities making them self-sustaining without the need to import any food. It would create jobs too.











edited to add more photos

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
3. I think a lot of wineries are tax writeoffs. I also noticed that this little hobby of the 1%
Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:53 PM
Apr 2012

has grown to such an extent that there are now degrees in "winery management" and such offered by universities.

My friend's kid got one. He's going to be managing tax-write-off wineries for the 1%.

One of the wonderful ways those folks continue to create jobs for you & me. Yay for the 1%!

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
8. Read Aldo Leopold's
Mon Apr 30, 2012, 05:20 PM
Apr 2012

"Sand County Almanac"

It is an oldie but a goodie.

Our problem is that we really have no respect for the land and its diversity. Maybe because it is given to us is why most folks devalue it so willfully?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,320 posts)
18. Because people don't expect answers to rhetorical questions
Tue May 1, 2012, 06:08 AM
May 2012
The rhetorical question is usually defined as any question asked for a purpose other than to obtain the information the question asks.

http://rhetoric.byu.edu/figures/r/rhetorical%20questions.htm
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
10. K&R. We don't have to stop development, good planning and making those that profit from it
Mon Apr 30, 2012, 06:57 PM
Apr 2012

pay the true costs of their development are sufficient.

Of course, that eats into the profits of the plunderers, and they are campaign contributers, so it doesn't often happen. You live in Cali, look into the history of your Representative, especially their family finances.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
13. Without Population Management the Ratio will always be shifting away from wilderness
Mon Apr 30, 2012, 07:27 PM
Apr 2012

There should be more wilderness than development, but exponential population growth makes it an impossible dream.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
14. Some of the smaller wineries are organic and pretty cool operations.
Mon Apr 30, 2012, 08:40 PM
Apr 2012

But sadly most of them wind up being a huge loss for the local ecosystem. I live near a few wineries that are run by bored rich people who think it's just fine to cover the fields in pesticide and then drain it off into the creek they use to irrigate the fields. We used to have a lot of deer around but since the 1% moved in they kill all the does & fawns that come around because they eat the precious grapes.
They aren't supposed to but they do take large amounts of water from local creeks & rivers to protect the grapes from frost when it's cold. I've heard of two getting caught and the fine they wound up paying was less than it would have cost them to pay for the water. Lovely.
This place has gone to hell since it became "booze alley".

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
16. I would rather see vineyards than oil derricks.
Mon Apr 30, 2012, 08:45 PM
Apr 2012

I love those canyon roads and use them frequently. Like you, I love that you can go through long expanses of undeveloped area.

Fortunately much of what I regularly drive through is protected.

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