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Kurska

(5,739 posts)
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 08:47 PM Feb 2015

Does all media have to include a meaningful female perspective?

I was recently having an argument that I think DU would find interesting.

We were talking about fight club. Personally, I love the book. It has so many interesting messages, especially the book as compared to the movie.

It talks about what it feels like to be alienated by a society that expects you to be satisfied and care about a minimum wage job that treats you like a meat robot.

It talks about how society lies to you. Society tells you you can fill the holes left by you career with material possessions. Possessions don't complete a person.

The book especially sends the clear message that even when you reject these toxic ideas and society, you aren't doing yourself any good. When you embrace your primal and destructive urges, they don't leave you any happier than you were when you were embracing mindless consumerism. It sends a clear message that such escapism can be just as horrible and counterproductive as the thing you are escaping from (I think this is a lesson a lot of people miss when they see only the film and a lesson a lot of those idiots who rush off to join ISIS are probably learning).

It is however, very much a story about males and male perspectives. The character of Marla is never really fleshed out and in the books is mostly used as part of a love triangle where the narrator loves Tyler, Tyler loves Marla and Marla loves the Narrator. Part of why I like fight club is how it very subtly touches on what it is like to be a male in unrequited love with another male who doesn't really care about you (lets face it Tyler was basically using the narrator to accomplish his anarchist dreams and was slowly taking more and more of his life).

My friend said this was a problem, that a book needs a female perspective to be truly valuable. I disagreed. I agree that there should be (and there are) books that include valuable female perspectives, but that not every book needs them to be great. The audience of fight club was listless young men who felt left behind by society. For that specific purpose it was a great book and I'm not sure fleshing out Marla as a character would have advanced that goal with that audience.

The author has written about women and especially what it feels like to be trans-gendered in the great book "Invisible Monsters". Where the main character is a supermodel who suddenly has to deal with how differently society treats her (and women as a whole) when they lose their beauty. So I don't think he is incapable of addressing female themes, it is just he chose to not do so in fight club, I believe because he wanted the novel to be primarily aimed at young men.

Is this wrong? Does a book have to speak to all genders? Or is it sometimes valuable to limit your narrative to aim for a specific audience, even if it might make other audiences feel excluded (though I certainly know a lot of women who loved and connected with fight club, despite its lack of a prominent and fleshed out female voice).

I can see both sides. I can understand WHY people want more media, especially interesting and challenging media, to connect to women and young women. Women are just as complex as men and their unique themes and perspectives are far too often ignored in fiction.

What do you think?

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Does all media have to include a meaningful female perspective? (Original Post) Kurska Feb 2015 OP
Does all media have to have meaningful male perspective? OregonBlue Feb 2015 #1
+1000 salib Feb 2015 #3
Art is art. You don't need to have "diversity" in every book/film/video game to be "PC." MADem Feb 2015 #2
No, its perfectly valid and good to have art forms and things such as books, movies, and so on from dissentient Feb 2015 #4
I fucking love Fight Club alphafemale Feb 2015 #5
Great art transcends personal experience XemaSab Feb 2015 #6

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. Art is art. You don't need to have "diversity" in every book/film/video game to be "PC."
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 09:23 PM
Feb 2015

However, if all literature excluded women/POC/differently abled/other diverse populations and focused solely on the male experience, that would be a problem--not just a problem for the readers, who would have no choice, but the writers, who would feel constrained as to what subject matter was deemed "allowable," and the publishers, who might be unwilling to publish anything that strays from the well beaten path.

You don't need some kindly white person sitting in the slave quarters in a novel about the Civil War to take the point that slavery is wrong. You don't need a man trying to wear the travelling pants in the Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants. You don't need the perspective of a Vulcan in a novel about Hobbits.

Again, art is art. It's only when groups are systematically excluded from expressing their point-of-view that there are problems. IMO, anyway. YMMV. Your friend should take the opportunity to write a book that reveals that perspective that s/he feels is missing, instead of wanting an artist to express himself in "One from Column A/Two from Column B" fashion.

 

dissentient

(861 posts)
4. No, its perfectly valid and good to have art forms and things such as books, movies, and so on from
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:26 PM
Feb 2015

an exclusively male perspective, and meant to appeal to a male audience.
Also works the other way around too, such as "chick flick" movies and books like 50 Shades of Gray and Sex and the City and so on.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
5. I fucking love Fight Club
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:33 PM
Feb 2015

A fucking feminine touch to tweak it would have killed that movie.

Other movies are told from a feminine outlook, or both a feminine and masculine outlook, and are glorious as well.

But the story is the story.

And that was an astounding, kick ass, fun fucking wonderful story.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
6. Great art transcends personal experience
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:38 PM
Feb 2015

Am I ever going to know what it's like to be a pedo? Am I ever going to know what it's like to be stranded on an island in the South Pacific with 30 boys? Am I ever going to know what it's like to land a marlin?

Nope.

I think the insistence that one's female/LGBT/disabled/Latino/working class perspective be present in everything ever is really limiting.

All that being said, if every story is by an old white man, then that's pretty jacked.

In summary, there's a place for great films that are deliberately about men and the male perspective as long as films are also being made from other perspectives.

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