General Discussion

pampango

(24,692 posts) Thu Feb 26, 2015, 10:38 AM Feb 2015

"apparently Russia is in such danger that its own security forces are not enough to prevent a coup"

Why Moscow's anti-Maidan protesters are putting on an elaborate pretence

A woman carrying a portrait of Vladimir Putin takes part in an Anti-Maidan rally

As tens of thousands of people gathered in central Moscow for an “anti-Maidan” rally recently, the Russian public was being asked to swallow an unsavoury pill: apparently the country is in such danger that its own security forces are not enough to prevent a coup d’etat. Instead it must rely on a team of ageing B-list celebrities to help fight off the west.

The rally, centred around opposition to the protests in Kiev a year ago that toppled former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, was organised by a movement apparently set up to prevent “colour revolutions” in Russia. But this raises the question of what a rag-tag crew of cultural figures could possibly do that the FSB, the foreign intelligence agency and numerous other security agencies couldn’t?

Pro-Kremlin activists from Russia’s Anti-Maidan movement march with a sign which says ‘Obama kills Donbass’.

But it can put on a flashy show to draw as many people as possible into its ranks in a bid to make fear of the outside world a mainstream preoccupation. It does not seek to prevent uprisings; it seeks to malign members of the opposition, create the impression that Russia is under siege from the west, and present Vladimir Putin as the only solution — all in one fell swoop.

And what better time than now, when Russia is stuck in the bowels of an economic crisis, to create a bogeyman for the people to stand united against? What better time than now, when ordinary Russians are starting to feel the effects of inflation and rising food prices?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/26/russia-anti-maidan-protest-moscow

The call to unite against the foreign foe. There is a tried-and-true formula to rally citizens to support the current leader.

22 replies

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Highlight:

"apparently Russia is in such danger that its own security forces are not enough to prevent a coup" (Original Post) pampango Feb 2015 OP

Has been years in the making with the "foreign agent" legislation. DetlefK Feb 2015 #1

The U.S. has a similar law: The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) leveymg Feb 2015 #2

not similar at all uhnope Feb 2015 #6

I'm afraid they aren't all that dissimilar in statutory construction. leveymg Feb 2015 #7

technically, true. uhnope Feb 2015 #9

Agreed. In practice, the US version is probably underenforced. But, the FARA is incredibly broad leveymg Feb 2015 #13

No, they are nothing alike. Acting as an agent of someone is a much higher level of contact geek tragedy Feb 2015 #11

The US version actually is stricter, as it doesn't even require payment - leveymg Feb 2015 #14

Russian law doesn't require even indirect evidence of being an agent geek tragedy Feb 2015 #15

I don't think you've actually established that. leveymg Feb 2015 #16

Mere payment with a political act, i.e. pissing off Putin, is the standard. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #17

Doesn't it always come down to saying something to piss off the wrong guy? leveymg Feb 2015 #18

No. The US is much more respectful of freedom geek tragedy Feb 2015 #19

Depends upon the year. Tell that to Dalton Trumbo and the Hollywood 10. leveymg Feb 2015 #20

US at its worst was still better than Russia at its best. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #21

They both play hardball with those who effectively oppose them. leveymg Feb 2015 #22

Just posted the same article in Good Reads. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #3

She is holding stud Putin picture LOL snooper2 Feb 2015 #4

On a completely unrelated note, I wonder whatever happened to Catherina? nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #5

Does anyone really and truly care? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #10

No. Not really. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #12

authoritarian nationalism is pretty much the state religion there nt geek tragedy Feb 2015 #8

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)

1. Has been years in the making with the "foreign agent" legislation.

Reply to pampango (Original post)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 10:51 AM

Feb 2015

If your organization receives funding from outside of Russia, you are automatically a "foreign agent".

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

2. The U.S. has a similar law: The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA)

Reply to DetlefK (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 11:16 AM

Feb 2015

http://www.fara.gov/

The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) was enacted in 1938. FARA is a disclosure statute that requires persons acting as agents of foreign principals in a political or quasi-political capacity to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities. Disclosure of the required information facilitates evaluation by the government and the American people of the statements and activities of such persons in light of their function as foreign agents. The FARA Registration Unit of the Counterespionage Section (CES) in the National Security Division (NSD) is responsible for the administration and enforcement of the Act.

FARA Contact Info

Public information relating to the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) may be obtained in person at the FARA Registration Unit Public Office located at:
Department of Justice/NSD
FARA Registration Unit
600 E Street, NW
BICN - Room 1300
Washington, DC 20004

uhnope

(6,419 posts)

6. not similar at all

Reply to leveymg (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 02:41 PM

Feb 2015

there's isn't a politically-motivated government campaign to interfere with and charge civic organizations with being spies in the USA in order to shut them down.

Russian NGO branded as 'foreign agent' after reporting on Russian military action in Ukraine
https://www.amnesty.org/en/articles/news/2014/08/russian-ngo-branded-foreign-agent-after-reporting-russian-military-action-ukraine/

Putin's War on NGOs Threatens Russia's Future
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putin-s-war-on-ngos-threatens-russia-s-future/504245.html

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

7. I'm afraid they aren't all that dissimilar in statutory construction.

Reply to uhnope (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 04:47 PM

Feb 2015

Put the US and Russian foreign agents registration statutes side by side, and the similarities outweigh the differences:

The elements of the Russian act, as described by AI:

Ella Polyakova insists that the NGO does not receive any foreign funding. This, according to the law, is the necessary attribute of a “foreign agent”. The other necessary attribute is participation in political activities. According to the government, the NGOs’ political activities consist of “forming public opinion” via their publications and seminars.

Another NGO, the Institute for the Development of Freedom of Information, also known for its independent position and critical pronouncements, was added to the “foreign agent register” on the same day.

Russia’s so-called “foreign agent’s law” was passed in June 2012 and came into force in November 2012. It was changed earlier this year giving new powers to the Ministry of Justice to add NGOs to the register of “foreign agents” without their consent and without the need to go through lengthy court hearings as had been the case until recently.

Now, compare that with how the Department of Justice describes the FARA:

http://www.fara.gov/

The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) was enacted in 1938. FARA is a disclosure statute that requires persons acting as agents of foreign principals in a political or quasi-political capacity to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities. Disclosure of the required information facilitates evaluation by the government and the American people of the statements and activities of such persons in light of their function as foreign agents. The FARA Registration Unit of the Counterespionage Section (CES) in the National Security Division (NSD) is responsible for the administration and enforcement of the Act.

In both cases we see: a requirement for registration if the foreign agent acts in a political or quasi-political capacity on behalf of a foreign entity. The previous Russian law may actually be more liberal as it required a court order to compel registration and requires a foreign funding nexus. The US law requires mandatory self-registration of the agent, and imposes a criminal penalty for proactive failure to do so within a short period an agreement, even if payment hasn't yet been made.

Here's part of the DOJ FAQ on this:

FARA Frequently-Asked Questions

What is FARA?

What is the purpose of FARA?

Are foreign governments the only foreign principals?

How does the Act work?

When does one register?

Does the Act limit an agent's lobbying and publishing informational materials (propaganda) for a foreign principal?

Are there criminal penalties for violating the Act?

Does everyone who acts as an agent of a foreign principal have to register?

Is FARA the only statute relating to the registration of agents?

What is FARA?

FARA is short for the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938, as amended, 22 U.S.C. § 611 et seq

Back to Top

What is the purpose of FARA?

The purpose of FARA is to insure that the U.S. Government and the people of the United States are informed of the source of information (propaganda) and the identity of persons attempting to influence U.S. public opinion, policy, and laws. In 1938, FARA was Congress' response to the large number of German propaganda agents in the pre-WWII U.S..

Back to Top

Are foreign governments the only foreign principals?

No. The term also includes foreign political parties, a person or organization outside the United States, except U.S. citizens, and any entity organized under the laws of a foreign country or having its principal place of business in a foreign country.

Back to Top

How does the Act work?

The Act requires every agent of a foreign principal, not otherwise exempt, to register with the Department of Justice and file forms outlining its agreements with, income from, and expenditures on behalf of the foreign principal. These forms are public records and must be supplemented every six months.
The Act also requires that informational materials (formerly propaganda) be labeled with a conspicuous statement that the information is disseminated by the agents on behalf of the foreign principal. The agent must provide copies of such materials to the Attorney General.
Any agent testifying before a committee of Congress must furnish the committee with a copy of his most recent registration statement.
The agent must keep records of all his activities and permit the Attorney General to inspect them.

Back to Top

When does one register?

One must register within ten days of agreeing to become an agent and before performing any activities for the foreign principal.

uhnope

(6,419 posts)

9. technically, true.

Reply to leveymg (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 04:51 PM

Feb 2015

In practice, no similarity

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

13. Agreed. In practice, the US version is probably underenforced. But, the FARA is incredibly broad

Reply to uhnope (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 04:59 PM

Feb 2015

in its potential application. Meanwhile, the Russians are only beginning to discover how elastic their similar law really is.

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

11. No, they are nothing alike. Acting as an agent of someone is a much higher level of contact

Reply to leveymg (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 04:54 PM

Feb 2015

than receiving money from someone.

Agents act explicitly on behalf of and a the direction of a principal.

The Russian law does not require that a person actually serve as an agent as defined in western law, rather they define agent as anyone who takes foreign money of any kind who also piss off Russia's government.

It's the difference between regulating foreign interference (US) and stepping on the throats of dissidents (Russia)

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

14. The US version actually is stricter, as it doesn't even require payment -

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 05:03 PM

Feb 2015

the agent can be prosecuted simply for failure to register. True, there has to be an agreement to act as an agent but as we know from U.S. criminal conspiracy law, proof of that agreement can be very vague and requires only indirect evidence. It's all a matter of how the government wants to interpret it in a particular case.

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

15. Russian law doesn't require even indirect evidence of being an agent

Reply to leveymg (Reply #14)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 05:09 PM

Feb 2015

Just taking any kind of foreign money and then pissing the government off is enough.

Agency is a legal relationship. In the vast majority of cases it's pretty obvious if someone is working on behalf of and at the direction of a foreign government.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

16. I don't think you've actually established that.

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 05:20 PM

Feb 2015

You'll need to come up with a better source that shows that mere payment -- without subsequent political act -- is enough to trigger the Russian act. Otherwise, anyone who does business in Russia is violating the foreign agents act.

BTW: take another look at the FARA FAQ excerpt - one does not have to be operating as an agent of a foreign gov't, per se, to trigger the U.S. registration requirement.

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

17. Mere payment with a political act, i.e. pissing off Putin, is the standard.

Reply to leveymg (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 05:29 PM

Feb 2015

Getting a $500 check from an overseas relative is not the same thing as being an employee of a foreign government.

Unless one lives in Russia and has pissed off Putin.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

18. Doesn't it always come down to saying something to piss off the wrong guy?

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 05:45 PM

Feb 2015

That's true just everywhere you go.

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

19. No. The US is much more respectful of freedom

Reply to leveymg (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 05:47 PM

Feb 2015

of expression than Russia is. Probably a cultural difference.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

20. Depends upon the year. Tell that to Dalton Trumbo and the Hollywood 10.

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 05:58 PM

Feb 2015

Remember this guy?

And if you really piss off the wrong people . . .

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

21. US at its worst was still better than Russia at its best.

Reply to leveymg (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 06:00 PM

Feb 2015

1950's-1960's USSR didn't bother with Congressional hearings.

J. Edgar Hoover wouldn't have qualified as an intern for Beria.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

22. They both play hardball with those who effectively oppose them.

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 26, 2015, 06:25 PM

Feb 2015

The appearance of free debate in America is almost as important as consensus, or the appearance of same, is to the Russians. Both sides maintain their own illusions that largely only fool themselves.

I'd agree that J. Edgar wouldn't have lasted a day in the KGB, regardless of his "personal files," or rather because of them. Dangerous place, Lubyanka - still is.