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marym625

(17,997 posts)
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:15 AM Mar 2015

UN expert slams US as only nation to imprison kids for life without parole

I don't understand how anyone could think we are superior to the rest of the world when it comes to human rights. We violate human rights all the time. Police kill people with impunity, which is due in part to prosecutors that refuse to charge a police officer knowing they have to have the the cooperation of the police in all cases. We have passed laws to legally rape women who seek to control their reproductive health and terminate a pregnancy. We throw away mentally ill people on the streets or prisons without any help. We incarcerate people for life with a "three strikes" law that has put at least one person in jail for life after stealing a pizza. We have the death penalty. The death penalty is administered in horrific ways.

Though there are more ways in which the USA treats people without humanity, the worst is, IMHO, is incarceration children to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Until the 2005 SCOTUS ruling Roper v. Simmons, we actually, legally executed, 365 children, 22 of those executions took place after 1976 when the death penalty was reinstated. There are 22 states that have no minimum age to charge children as adults. With states that have an age specific law, the youngest is 10. Ten years old.

Not surprisingly, the majority of children transferred to criminal court are African American

A majority of the juvenile defendants were African American (62%). The rest of the sample was made up of Caucasian (20%), Latino (16%) and other (2%). At time of arrest almost 40% of the juveniles were ages 17–18, with 30.7% ages 16–17, 19.2% ages 15–16, 6.8% ages 14–15, and 0.3% less than 14 years of age.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_as_an_adult

Surprisingly, not all transfers of children to criminal court are for violent crimes. Over 15% are for drug charges. I can't even wrap my head around putting a child in prison, with adult offenders, for drugs.

There are only 14 States and the District of Columbia that do not put children in jail for life, without the possibility of parole.

The ramifications of children being imprisoned with adults are horrific. Though there are others, the two major consequences are, they are more likely victims of crime inside and are more likely to commit violent crimes when released.

The Court’s ban on juvenile executions allowed EJI to focus on the plight of nearly 3000 children age 17 or younger who had been sentenced to imprisonment until death through life-without-parole sentences imposed with very little scrutiny or review. Children as young as 13 were among the thousands condemned to die in prison.

Most of the sentences imposed on these children were mandatory: the court could not give any consideration to the child’s age or life history. Some of the children were charged with crimes that do not involve homicide or even injury; many were convicted for offenses where older teens or adults were primarily responsible for the crime; 70% of condemned kids 14 or younger are children of color.


http://www.eji.org/childrenprison/deathinprison

Now the US is being singled out by the UN for the only nation that continues the practice of incarcerating children until their death.

The United States was singled out Monday by a United Nations expert on torture for being the only country in the world that continues to sentence children to life in prison without parole.

“The vast majority of states have taken note of the international human rights requirements regarding life imprisonment of children without the possibility of release,” Juan Méndez, the United Nations special rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment, said in his report, before noting that the United States is the only country to continue the practice.

A sentence of life without parole means life and death in prison — a practice considered cruel and inhumane punishment for juveniles under both international and U.S. law.

“Life sentences or sentences of an extreme length have a disproportionate impact on children and cause physical and psychological harm that amounts to cruel, inhuman or degrading punishment,” the report reads.


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/9/un-expert-slams-us-as-only-nation-to-sentence-kids-to-life-without-parole.html

As of the date of the Court’s ruling in Miller v. Alabama, there were more than 2,500 people serving life sentence without parole for crimes committed when they were under 18 years old. Two-thirds of these sentences occurred in just five states: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, California, and Louisiana.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=0RQIVdaaOpCayATTgIHIBg&url=http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/jj_State_Responses_to_Miller.pdf&ved=0CBwQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHIEYq_pUglWCySwgECzr4O7cru2w

More than 25% of people serving life without parole after being sentenced as children were convicted of felony murder or accomplice liability, meaning they were not the primary perpetrators of the crime, and may not have even been present at the time someone was killed.


http://fairsentencingofyouth.org/what-is-jlwop/

Many of the children sentenced to spend their entire life in prison have many problems in their lives, from mental illness to physical and/or sexual abuse. In some states those circumstances are not even taken into account.

This should be something we fight to change in all states that have not changed laws after the Miller decision. If your State allows a child to be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, then changing that law should be a major consideration in all elections at the State level.

This is so much more than an embarrassment. We wonder why we have problems of violence and racism in our country. We need only look to how we treat our children.

More links with good information.

http://ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/structure_process/qa04105.asp?qaDate=2011&text=

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform-human-rights/us-looks-overseas-human-rights-abuses-and-ignores-un-report-cr
51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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UN expert slams US as only nation to imprison kids for life without parole (Original Post) marym625 Mar 2015 OP
Recommended. H2O Man Mar 2015 #1
Thank you. marym625 Mar 2015 #2
Ahh, The Prison Industrial Complex - Children, a revenue stream for faux-Libertarian Socialists. nt TheBlackAdder Mar 2015 #3
+1 marym625 Mar 2015 #4
what do other countries do with their child-aged killers? Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #5
Sentence them to a term of years and release morningfog Mar 2015 #6
do you know their rate of recidivism? Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #8
Not off hand, but studies have shown much lower morningfog Mar 2015 #13
thanks morningfog Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #16
a few of the links in the OP contain studies marym625 Mar 2015 #20
They don't put them away for life, sentenced to die in prison. marym625 Mar 2015 #7
Should we do what another country does? that is exactly what youre telling us we should do but Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #9
I'm not saying we should do what other countries do. marym625 Mar 2015 #19
rehab and maturation is what morningfog said, that seems better than prison - there's no excuse Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #28
That's exactly what I want to know, marym625 Mar 2015 #39
If they took a life with malice and intent... Oktober Mar 2015 #42
How compassionate marym625 Mar 2015 #44
Short of those with actual mental deficiencies... Oktober Mar 2015 #47
a 10 year old does not understand death in the way an adult does. marym625 Mar 2015 #48
How do other people find out stuff when they want to know things kcr Mar 2015 #10
they ask Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #11
And you'll just take our word for it? kcr Mar 2015 #14
well i asked - i could take your word or the word of someone else i dont know - morningfog had Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #17
Maybe it's because it shouldn't have to be asked whether it's right to imprison children for life kcr Mar 2015 #18
i didnt ask that at all - why are putting words in my mouth Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #30
I have apologized marym625 Mar 2015 #24
yea and thanks the post you replyed to wasnt directed at you -- Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #31
Yet rather than making any real effort to put our own house in order we STILL think TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #12
yep. marym625 Mar 2015 #26
The U.S. will, apparently, NEVER give up slavery. Isn't that what these imprisonments valerief Mar 2015 #15
You are correct marym625 Mar 2015 #27
An excellent and horrifying post. Thank you. K & R. nt Ilsa Mar 2015 #21
Thank you. Yes, horrifying. n/t marym625 Mar 2015 #29
The one thing that worries me in the article is the higher rate of AAs being jailed for life davidpdx Mar 2015 #22
I am sorry, I don't mean any disrespect, marym625 Mar 2015 #33
It's not so great for child offenders in Yemen, either Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #23
I'm sure you are correct marym625 Mar 2015 #34
How did you link to the PDF? marym625 Mar 2015 #49
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Mar 2015 #25
Thank you, Willy! marym625 Mar 2015 #35
Recced and kicked MrScorpio Mar 2015 #32
Thank you, Mr. Scorpio! marym625 Mar 2015 #36
IIRC, in California it was Gov Deukmejian (R) who started it. Trillo Mar 2015 #37
It's such a horrible law marym625 Mar 2015 #40
Didn't voters approve a change to that stupid law? Trillo Mar 2015 #43
That does sound familiar. marym625 Mar 2015 #45
There were two guys marym625 Mar 2015 #46
We are LITERALLY being farmed like livestock. Government gives farm subsidies whereisjustice Mar 2015 #38
What a horrible comparison. marym625 Mar 2015 #41
K&R! Omaha Steve Mar 2015 #50
Thank you, my friend! marym625 Mar 2015 #51

marym625

(17,997 posts)
2. Thank you.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:20 AM
Mar 2015

I was surprised there wasn't already a post about this. At least not one I could find. But then I thought about our MSM.

How do they not report this?

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
13. Not off hand, but studies have shown much lower
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:01 AM
Mar 2015

recidivism in these countries as a general rule.

You also have to keep in mind that convicted murderers have the lowest recidivism of all criminal activity. Most are committed in an intense moment of passion and very poor judgment. Murderers are not like people who commit of poverty or drug addiction or sexual addiction usually. With rehabilitation and maturation most murderers are able to address and correct the behavior that led to the killing.

 

Romeo.lima333

(1,127 posts)
16. thanks morningfog
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:05 AM
Mar 2015

"Most are committed in an intense moment of passion and very poor judgment"

"With rehabilitation and maturation most murderers are able to address and correct the behavior "

these are good things to keep in mind

marym625

(17,997 posts)
20. a few of the links in the OP contain studies
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:14 AM
Mar 2015

On recidivism and maturation. The PDF from Juvenile Justice and the Wikipedia both contain good information and further links

marym625

(17,997 posts)
7. They don't put them away for life, sentenced to die in prison.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:52 AM
Mar 2015

And frankly ,until we fix what we do, wtf difference does it make? Should we do what another country does? Or should we lead by example? Or should we condemn another country while we are being inhumane to our children?

 

Romeo.lima333

(1,127 posts)
9. Should we do what another country does? that is exactly what youre telling us we should do but
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:55 AM
Mar 2015

what's wrong with asking a question and how can we " lead by example" if everyone does it but us. how can we lead if we're already last

marym625

(17,997 posts)
19. I'm not saying we should do what other countries do.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:08 AM
Mar 2015

I am saying we should do the right thing.

We can't lead as we are now. We need to change laws that allow a child to be sentenced to die in prison.

Your question seemed mocking. If I misread it, I apologize.

That doesn't change my answer. We shouldn't look to other places for how we run things to know we need to be more humane. The entire reason that the juvenile courts came into existence was to rehabilitate. We seldom even try anymore, even in the juvenile system.

We have enough data, psychological reviews, studies, etc to know we have to change our system for children. This includes all children in the court system. It isn't just children who killed that have been sentenced to lwop. 15% are in for drug charges. Some convicted of accomplice to murder and weren't even there when the crime was committed.

Other countries try to rehabilitate. They don't allow a child to remain in the prison for the rest of their lives. There are time limits on both time to serve and when parole is possible

 

Romeo.lima333

(1,127 posts)
28. rehab and maturation is what morningfog said, that seems better than prison - there's no excuse
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:24 AM
Mar 2015

for lwop for kids- the u.s. seems to be creating a p.i.c. with states guaranteeing a 90% OCCUPANCY how can you guarantee something like that without putting in kids, innocent people and people w/minor infractions , our prison system is now for profit so now it will become an insane process. what has happened to our humanity?

 

Oktober

(1,488 posts)
42. If they took a life with malice and intent...
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 10:34 AM
Mar 2015

... fuck em.

Let 'em rot...

The families of their victims will never get their loved ones back, why should the families of the murderers?

Other categories of offenders are open to discussion...

marym625

(17,997 posts)
44. How compassionate
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 10:41 AM
Mar 2015

So, the fact their brains aren't fully developed, their capacity to completely understand the ramifications of their acts, their backgrounds, what they have suffered in their short lives, whether they are mentally ill, etc, or the fact they could be rehabilitated, should have no baring on the sentence?

Wow. Sure hope you are not on the jury for a 10 year old.

 

Oktober

(1,488 posts)
47. Short of those with actual mental deficiencies...
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 10:50 AM
Mar 2015

Even a child knows that if you stab someone in the head they are going to die and won't come back...

Yes, even a 10 year old...

I have compassion for victims...

marym625

(17,997 posts)
48. a 10 year old does not understand death in the way an adult does.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 10:59 AM
Mar 2015

I have compassion for the victim as well. Sometimes, especially with children, the assailant is also a victim.

Since rehabilitation is more than just a possibility, it truly amazes me that anyone would not want to achieve that for a child.

I just hope your opinion is the minority.

I do thank you for your thoughts.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
10. How do other people find out stuff when they want to know things
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:59 AM
Mar 2015

about those mysterious far off mystical socialist lands with roving bands of child killers?

 

Romeo.lima333

(1,127 posts)
17. well i asked - i could take your word or the word of someone else i dont know - morningfog had
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:07 AM
Mar 2015

something constructive to add and i appreciated the input even though i dont know that poster either -

why are some people on du so argumentative and combative

 

Romeo.lima333

(1,127 posts)
31. yea and thanks the post you replyed to wasnt directed at you --
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:27 AM
Mar 2015

it was to the other poster who put words in my mouth then started trying to argue with me over the words he put there

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
12. Yet rather than making any real effort to put our own house in order we STILL think
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:01 AM
Mar 2015

we are Team America: Global Police

We are far closer to global cancer than shining city on the hill.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
26. yep.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:23 AM
Mar 2015

This is something that I have found abhorrent since I was a child. I remember when the death penalty was reinstated and I was shocked at that alone. But when I found out kids were included, it just changed my mind about so many things regarding the US and our world police force.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
15. The U.S. will, apparently, NEVER give up slavery. Isn't that what these imprisonments
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:03 AM
Mar 2015

are all about? That and vote suppression and revolution containment.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
22. The one thing that worries me in the article is the higher rate of AAs being jailed for life
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:18 AM
Mar 2015

I have to wonder if that is because their families have little or no means of putting up a defense for their child along with racial bias against AAs. I don't know that for sure, just taking a guess.

I would rather see people rehabilitated than jailed forever. That being said there are some people who need to stay there, the problem is how that decision is made.

I met someone a long time ago who was sentence to life in prison as a minor (I don't think it was life in prison without parole) and when I worked as a volunteer. I believe if memory serves me right he killed his father. In talking to him he really wasn't a bad guy, but something clearly happened and he had been in prison for a good number of years (he was in his early 20's at the time). The system had clearly made him worse.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
33. I am sorry, I don't mean any disrespect,
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:33 AM
Mar 2015

Last edited Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)

But "the one thing that bothers you"? It's a horrifying part of the statistics. Absolutely no doubt. But the entire thing bothers me.

I'm assuming that there are many factors that go into the fact that AA children are more likely to be sentenced to lwop is the same thing that causes more black men and women to be charged, incarcerated and with longer sentences. Racism. Pure, simple, disgusting, racism.

Some states have a mandatory change to criminal court depending on the crime. Some are judicial discretion, some prosecutorial. When you have more black children being arrested, then add in people deciding if the kid is transferred, with good old fashioned, American racism, you're going to get more black children sentenced.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
23. It's not so great for child offenders in Yemen, either
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:19 AM
Mar 2015

"In Yemen, it is unlawful to sentence child offenders to capital punishment, though it happens in practice. It is also unlawful to sentence persons under 18 to life imprisonment. However, persons under 18 may lawfully be sentenced to corporal punishment, including flogging and amputation."

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CCPR/Shared%20Documents/YEM/INT_CCPR_NGO_YEM_104_10334_E.pdf

I imagine there are lots of other countries where kids get sent to jail and don't make it out alive or in one piece.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
34. I'm sure you are correct
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:35 AM
Mar 2015

And that's some wicked stuff you linked to. Horrible!

But we need to look at ourselves. We have to change our laws and practices before we can condemn others.

Thanks for the information

marym625

(17,997 posts)
49. How did you link to the PDF?
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 08:56 PM
Mar 2015

I had a really difficult time doing that in the OP. Just wondering if there is an easier way.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
37. IIRC, in California it was Gov Deukmejian (R) who started it.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:43 AM
Mar 2015

I remember watching the TV back then, there were many advertisements for the policy played over and over, quite hypnotic, "Three strikes and you're out."

marym625

(17,997 posts)
40. It's such a horrible law
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 10:29 AM
Mar 2015

I assume you remember the pizza thing. The poor guy that stole a pizza and now is in prison for life. I was living in California when that happened. There was outrage but that didn't stop it from happening

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
43. Didn't voters approve a change to that stupid law?
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 10:40 AM
Mar 2015

I seem to recall something about Three Strikes no longer applying if the offense was non-violent. That pizza slice guy should have been released.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
45. That does sound familiar.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 10:43 AM
Mar 2015

I don't know if he was. I think, now that you mention it, it was changed but not retroactively.

I will look it up

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
38. We are LITERALLY being farmed like livestock. Government gives farm subsidies
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 09:43 AM
Mar 2015

to our corrupt police state. In return our prison industry gives heavily to individual politicians.

It's the cycle of death.

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