two at home.

why do you think that is the case?

I have a safe full of guns and enjoy competitive target shooting with my family. Are we training to shoot black people?

It's sounds like you're definitely afraid of someone or something.

I live in a very safe town. My family and I compete in organized target shooting competitions - it is a sport. There is no fear involved - it is actually a fun family activity.

firearms have different uses.

I have said I own guns many times. Are you replying to the wrong post perhaps?

that will just get us off in the wrong direction).

Right?

Hobby?

Fun?

The same way I enjoy my PS3 or Xbox?

Can we agree on that?

One rifle for each family member plus a couple of handguns (one an old family keepsake.)

Except I think I enjoy shooting more than I do my PS4 - it takes more skill and is also a much more social activity.

in America is a problem?

That there are too many people using them to kill themselves or others?

so I have some confidence that the present laws are working and that gun deaths will continue to decline

That being said, I think there are some other laws we should pass such as UBCs, mandatory training, safe storage laws, etc. The only regulations I definitely oppose are registration and an AWB.

I would also mention that the solution for gun suicides is better mental health care. A process to take guns from people deemed dangerous to themselves or others is ok as long as due process is respected and the law is narrowly defined.

are a public health issue.

What we can also agree on, I hope, is many civilized countries have far less guns and gun deaths, right?

because the conversation starts and ends right there.

I am not the problem here. You find a way to address gun violence while respecting my rights and I am right with you.

let me ask you this: "at what point do you agree having access to your hobby is too costly for society as a whole?"

You see if my PS3 caused pollution, for instance, in a major way beyond the electricity it takes to run it, I would have to decide either my playing the game is so important I am wiling to cause harm to society by keeping it, or I am not.

Your particular guns my never harm someone, but guns in general will and do everyday.

at what point do you do what I asked?

how many more Newtown's? (Sandy Hook)

So what you are telling me is it is not the numbers of dead, maimed and injured that matter to you but rather how it happened. Alcohol good, guns bad. Got it.

and by bringing up alcohol you have conceded the debate

but let's agree to fight on issues we agree on

It was all about those evil guns?

like i said, apples and watermelons

It is what people do with it that is the problem.

That is the extent of the argument some make.

Why do they have parking lots at bars?

are just waiting to kill black people? That is just sick and you really should be ashamed of that statement.

Took the high road. Nothing like broad brushing firearms owners.

...as long as they're directed at "*those* people"

Lots of luck with that......

Because I own firearms and am for the RKBA.

when called on their comments, they tend to run away.

All that bile and venom can't be good for a person

You *might* want to take a chill pill , Paladin- seeing as one of the other "travelers on the same
path" as you appears to have undergone a rather spectacular flameout in the
Gun Control Reform Activism group.

Seems they didn't take it too kindly when the host, one of the most adamant of gun control
advocates, issued them a rather mild public rebuke. They were merely the latest in a long, loong
list of "gun control advocacy burnout cases"- MrBenchley, iverglas, baldguy, Secular Motion, et al
come immediately to mind...

was a thing of beauty.

who isn't even in this thread and hasn't posted on DU since I asked them nicely to be a little more civil towards your side when posting in GCRA. Frankly, I think you should be ashamed of yourself for acting like such a !@@#%^&*(ng *&^&^*%*e.

...who was apparently even less able to keep it hidden than the racist target seller in the OP

Maybe we *are* indulging in some schadenfreude at their expense, but I remind you and any
other reader that they were merely one of the latest (including a poster in this very thread)
that act like Pamela Geller seeing a Qur'an when it comes to the idea of gun owners.

You are all, of course, free to act that way within the confines of DU's rules- but I have to tell
you, antics like those do as much or more to ensure the implacable emnity of gun owners
than any of the NRA's lurid propaganda.

Of course, if I've missed some important guide to "Political Success By Pissing Off A
Large Chunk of The Electorate", please *do* point it out to me...

Pro-gun militants aren't entitled to such a response, and your condescending remarks certainly don't merit any such action. I stand by my prior comments about the racist component of the pro-gun movement---Ted Nugent represents your side of the argument, Gabby Giffords represents mine. Instead of lobbing snotty remarks my way, put some energy into cleaning up the political stance you appear to care the most about; God knows it needs it.

And it's not as if they were hidden, either-the search function works for everyone:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22friendly_iconoclast%22+nugent&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=157616

...act like some very hateful a-- -- holes.

well before anyone at DU.
"Firearm owners" are the people the banned vendor knew wanted these targets.

He said the customers/gun owners/firearms aficionados at the show bought 500 targets from him over the weekend.

First rule of business - know your customer, know your markets.
That vendor knows.
You know too.

and how many of those he sold before being banned.

Seems like you might want to check that out, for all you and I know he also had KKK silhouettes also.

I guess that makes it alright for some DU members to stereotype and broad brush firearms owners here. As we all know we are not "real" democrats as we have been told many times. Not to mention future killers and baby killers with blood on our hands.

Wow, I'm laughing at you so hard right now.
I can't coach you through this debate for your side too.
Step it up son.
Bring the big guns of false equivalence and straw man arguments.
You lost on two points already.
Go for a third.
Go check your NRA pamphlet for some stats.
Is there a help line for when you're getting your ass handed to you in an online debate?
We'll wait while you do some research, call for back up or whatever.
Say "good guy with a gun" for me.
You are adorable.

So some firearms owners are racist, and that would be a small percentage of all firearms owners. Most like me are not and many are actually democrats like me. So deal with those facts.

you're actually debating facts and truths.
You gave that up with that tactic.
You're doing again in that last one too.
that's why I'm treating you like a child now.
You had a big day. Isn't it past your bedtime?

How nice of you, my friend.

The show banned the vendor, instead of giving him a prime spot at the front of the exhibit hall. Gotta take progress where you can, I guess.

I do note that the linked story and video were very careful and circumspect not to identify the vendor by name. Probably to protect his privacy. You know how "those people" react to harmless hawking of non-offensive wares.

[img][/img]

Therefore, it has to be the "Guuuunnnzzzzz"!!!

and it's still racist, so what's your point again?

Give it up. You lost several posts ago (actually it was the first one).

It's been explained to you several times over. If you haven't figured that out by now, no further
discussion on 'Hatchet man' (I only posted what I did because of it's similarity to the genuine
racist target), is going to change your mind.

What are you not understanding?

Simple question, YES or NO?

what in your mind makes it racist?

I see a guy with dreads and a meat cleaver.

I would say get your eyes checked.

Meat cleaver and some dreadlocks.

[img][/img]

I am familiar with the logo as I am friends with several Juggalos/Juggalettes. I always saw a that drawing as a cartoon character running with a cleaver...

I never, for even a moment, considered what the skin color of said character would be...

It looks like dreadlocks more than a Native American headdress IMO.

To go on a tangent, I do know some relatives of the late Wahho McDaniel. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahoo_McDaniel
Their stories of him and his career (and corroborating tales from his fellow wrestlers) make me wish I had the chance to have met him in person.

I'm shocked to find this type of behavior at a gun show.

No doubt he was banned by the show-- bad branding for the industry.

.... either that or he was given a "booth of prominence" (or whatever they have at those things

Surely, some fall into only one category in that Venn diagram: the racist asshole who hates guns; the gun nut shithead who dreams of racial harmony. The sliver is not empty, however thin it may be at both edges.

since we are drawing Venn diagrams.

Anyone purchasing that target should lose their right to own a firearm. They are a menace to society.

The First Amendment protects free speech from government, not private, action.

Fanny Lou Hamer and Zora Neale Hurston would approve:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/01/27/the-what-and-why-of-negroes-and-the-gun-the-black-tradition-of-arms/

who in turn passed it on from a white woman who owned a wood products operation in Dixie Co., Fla. Hurston remarked how the woman kepts guns all over her bedroom.

From "Go Gator and Muddy the Water," a collection of essays by Hurston, pub. by LSU Press.

Last edited Wed Mar 18, 2015, 04:04 PM - Edit history (1)

banning that made it a public issue, then the operator deserves a ton of credit.

But if the banning was done only because of public outcry, that is different.

at gun show to attract your typical gun fancier.

NRA right wing BS, Tbag flags, militia junk, and worse. You've been to enough of them to know what attracts you guys, GG.

You need to rethink telling others what to do.

My dad brought home lots of Nazi memorabilia from Europe, does that make him a RW nut?
It's like collecting any other memorabilia, it's a hobby to most.

Anything else is sick, certainly not a "hobby." Try knitting, music, or something.

Who had a Nazi flag, helmet, 3-4 embroided uniform insignia, a box of medals and a Hitler Youth dagger.
Was he sick?


Perhaps he was as he always referred to Germans as "fucking Nazis" but I guess being in the Battle of the Bulge will do that to you.

As I recall, he referred to Republicans with the same terms but I think Nixon had something to do with that.

anyone who shows respect to such symbols has an issue merely owning does not show respect.

I would be interested in your opinion of Paul Allen Microsoft billionaire executive. He recently spent two and a half million buying a Pz.Kpfw.IV tank. He is also a staunch supporter of gun control.

Would you believe he is sick for buying such a symbol of the Nazi regime? The Panzer IV was far more important to the Nazi war machine than the Tiger. Also is there a conflict of interest, being in favor of gun control while purchasing an operating tank for yourself?