NOT always, but often..

I was watching Olive Kitteridge over last weekend and she said to Henry, he hates me Henry, but don't worry you're coming off smelling like a rose!

It's caused a breach going on 20 years.

She thought our abusive/alcoholic father was the bees knees for the longest time and my mother the devil. It's taken her a while, but she's come around some. She needed his acceptance, is what I take from it.. Cause he was a violent asshole.... and she knew my mother had unconditional love for her... so my sister was abusive in what she felt was from a safe place. My mother would never stop loving her.

This is my biological father. I had a step father who passed very suddenly who was a gem! I miss him so!

Still waiting for reconciliation, but my family traditionally holds grudges til the end of time. Never cared much til it manifested in my relationship with my daughter. I was her source of unimpeachable support in every possible way, but all she ever wanted was his which was never reliably available. Breaks my heart.

It cause immeasurable heartbreak. I am feeling for you.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

She see's her chance to make a buck in this crazy place we call America. She'll be the GOP's little darling starring on that freak show with the mother who has 20 some odd children.

Thbt.

Last edited Fri Mar 20, 2015, 08:07 PM - Edit history (1)

But that really had nothing to do with with her Mom her other Mom.

Her father very likely would have been absent from her life had her mother remained single after the divorce.

Her father very likely would have remained absent from her life had her mother gotten remarried to a man.

And she would also have likely had a father that was absent from her life even if her mother had gritted her teeth and stayed married to him "for the sake of the children."

Oh...she may have seen him in the house everyday. But he likely would have all the charm and all the appeal of an ugly, uncomfortable chair. An ugly, uncomfortable chair that demands to be fed on demand, cleaned up after, and for everyone to just shut the fuck up around it.

This poor kid needs to place blame on why she did not have a relationship with her father on her asshat of a father. She needs to stop blaming her mother or her other mother.

She needs to stop blaming gay marriage.

She needs to blame her father.

with two children of their own. it's a really interesting story, but cutting it short, I'm really happy they girls see their dad and his partner and daughters (one of which is the half sister to my girls) several times a year, everyone's birthday's holidays, and occasional sleep overs. I don't see my granddaughters ever pulling this crap..

I'm sorry the daughter in this story is seriously misguided. that's very unfortunate. Her mothers must be devastated.

Making marriage legal for same sex couples would actually be a protection for any children involved.

From simply being able to cover legally recognized people under an employee health benefit.

To the sobering matter of being recognized for child custody rights if tragedy occurs.

To the matter of protection of including possible child support and legally defined property separation if the relationship dissolves.

The idea that in many cases a person could simply just legally "Evict" a spouse and child/children with zero chances of the evicted having any legal rights heard in court is just staggering.

So since gay marriage was not legal at that time anyway, is she appealing that we retro back to laws against same sex-cohabitation?

Yeah, just try enforcing that shit.

Her public denunciations sort of seems to fit the pattern of someone who has been programmed or "converted".

The author doesn't say her father was denied access, he just never cared enough to see her. She wasn't deprived of a father because her mothers were gay.

Grass is greener and all

Sometimes, people are just crappy parents.

I'm sure same sex parents can be just as bad opposite sex parents, but her denunciations seem to be bases on nothing beyond the fact that her two moms were female.

And I have met some really shitty same sex parents. Way more hetero bad parents. So in proportion, about the same.

But bad people are bad people, no matter who they sleep with.

WAAAA! Women and men should not be able to marry! They have little in common with each other, and over half of straight marriages end in divorce, leaving horrible lasting scars on the children of these marriages!!!

Shit happens, Heather dear, so call yourself a waaambulance, stop blaming your parents for how fucked up you are, and deal with your own shit, and you might grow up some day.

Imagine hearing the child you raised denounce the value and even legitimacy of the love you gave them.

She genuinely is living proof that being raised in a same-sex household can screw you up, just like lots of other things can.

The reason that's not a terribly important fact is that "can" does not, in this case, imply "is likely to".

Various studies on life outcomes of children of lesbian vs straight parents have come to different conclusions, but the overall evidence suggests that there isn't much difference on average; my understanding is that there isn't yet a statistically significant pool of data on children raised by gay men.

Another thing that's worth noting in this context is that there *is* a very clear, very strong difference in average life outcomes between children of poor parents and children of rich parents, but no-one is suggesting stopping the poor getting married or adopting.

... living in a same-sex household. It was being abandoned by her father. The same-sex household is not even relevant to her issue here. She had a parent who just plain didn't want to be part of her life. It's sad. Her mother and step-mother did their best, but she still feels abandoned by her father.

I read her thoughts and it appear to me to be a personal issue for her and not gay marriage in general. She appears to have grown up to be a capable adult. If the adults that raised her failed it isn't obvious. Her issues don't appear to be usual for many people whose parents divorced and one parent abandons them. That a gay couple with a child can't have a relationship outside the marriage with a biological father... thousands of marriages manage to do this both gay and straight. Her personal experience isn't sentencing to the whole institution at all. Once again this seems to be her personal problem and was in no way convincing. Why this got so much attention can only be because there is $$$ behind it. Data points of one are rarely convincing unless you want to be convinced.

It may be that you're right and she's wrong, but she's the one with the first-hand experience.

And it's a process very prone to bias. I don't think first-hand experience is a reliable guide to this sort of thing.

Were one to use my childhood as definitive example, one would likely conclude that opposite-sex marriages should not be allowed.

In my case a woman shouldnt marry a guy in the Navy. He'll just end up abandoning her with 2 kids. I find this woman to be heartless and feel sad for her Moms.

Some dads are great, some dads are crappy. Some moms are great, some moms are crappy. Some single parent families are headed by someone who does a yeoman's job, or sometimes not so much.

Same with same-sex parents - some are better than others, no question.

But kids don't "need a Dad", per se. Nor do they "need a Mom". They need a parent or parents who love them and give boundlessly of their time, home, and heart.

Some folks are quite happy and capable on their own at an early age.

I have to believe you're being facetious, or something.

is simply a manifestation of some type of mental disorder...feel bad for the moms to have such a hateful daughter.

It's pretty telling when we label a woman who states opinions we disagree with as being 'mentally ill'.

It's like... We can't comprehend that she has her own mind, and the ability to come up with her own opinion. Shocking ain't it?

I disagree with her opinion just as much as anyone here, but I'm not going to label someone as 'mentally ill' just because they hold a opinion I disagree with.

There's a clear lack of reason and logic in this woman's "letter"...she's a bigot...and that's warped worldview...I bet if she had an "opinion" of black people, well, you wouldn't defend her would you? Right, homophobia is still ok in your "opinion."

Or did you ignore that?

Bigotry and hatred are learned conditions, not a mental illness.

The logic of the article is obviously fallacious but closely mirrors standard anti-equality tropes.

Nothing strange about that.

Of course the Christian social fascists will exploit her to no end.

Should have left and taken me away from my narcissistic Mother. They were married for nearly 60 years before he died and I had to care for her. My sisters were older and smart enough to walk away. Perhaps I should advocate against that "for better - for worse" clause my Dad signed up for.

what she doesn't realize is that you can be raised in a "traditional" family and still have a huge hole left by one parent or the other -- or even both if you're really "lucky."

She is taking her parents for granted now. And sadly seems to be suffering from RWing brain rot. Yeah hate is a strong word, however given enough time reading RWing garbage...she just might start.

I've watched perfectly sensible people get lost to Foxnews and it changes them. They become more bitter toward the world in general. Hopefully she can crawl out of the RWing pit one day.

So right about it not having anything to do with having two moms...a dad and a mom can fuck up a child's brain with ease. And many do at an early age. Teach them hate and fear and discrimination. I sure hope her baby doesn't grow up to be like how she is now.

This poor woman would have been unhappy with any parents. May she grow wiser and realize what life is like.

She's apparently a mother now. I look forward to her child or children telling her they hate her and want to go live with their grandmothers.

right wing pop-eyed smile. Maybe became a fervid right winger? Too bad that means she has to trash her parents' marriage.

The article doesn't say how much contact she ever had with her father - whether she misses an actual father in her life and wants one because she never had one. It's just more important to have two parents and sexist to imply that there are separate roles for fathers/mothers in one's life.

She's straight so she talks about her kids having the love of their father without thinking she is talking about not having the love of one of her mothers because it would be preferable to have some man she imagines as the other parent, just because he'd be a man.

'consequences' she be babbling about? Seems like her mom's did a dam good job of raising her, enough to have her own child and life. We can have any value or opinion in America and that is something many countries cannot boast about.

Okay, so she turned out to be a teabagger. That is sad, but just like a teabagger - she misses the key critical points in her life that should be important (imo) namely - mom's raised her and she went on to have her own child and family and life. Still not seeing these 'consequences'. She is not a crack addict, her husband doesn't beat her every night. They have a healthy baby. Sounds to me like a daughter is old enough now to not realize she is taking her parents for granted. We all do it.

That is a success in my book. I guess she overlooks that part or doesn't realize how normal she is. Mom's did a good job and should take a bow. They can't control their daughters brain and wouldn't want to I bet, even if they could. She just has to crawl her own way out of the garbage pit that is the RWing.

The importance to children of fathers in the home has nothing to do with marriage equality.

It is sad to see a soul lost to that kind of hatred. Hopefully she will find her way back home.

Her two moms raised an awful, selfish, horrible little bratty troll.

the person who contributed half of her genetic makeup. She clearly loved her mothers, but she also wanted to know her biological father.

Adopted children have this issue, too. No matter how much they love the parents who raised them, they can feel a longing for the parents they never knew. Though it can be difficult for the "forever parents," current research shows children do better with an open adoption.

Some lesbian and gay parents use sperm and egg donors, but others ask a friend or someone else known to them to be the other birth parent -- and give that person and child a chance to have a relationship.

I wonder how the woman in the OP would feel if that had been her situation instead.

P.S. To clarify, I'm not saying that gay and lesbian people who want to be parents should be prevented from using sperm and egg banks, or there should be any legal restrictions on their being parents. Not every situation is the same and no one else can decide this for a family. I'm just saying that anyone who wants to be a parent, including biological and adoptive, should spend some time thinking about what the best way to accomplish this might be -- for them and any future children. The choice of having a child and how you do it is a big decision for anyone.

in that I strongly suspect the story here is that she has acquired in adulthood religious views that ideologically incline her to opposing same-sex marriage and parenting.

The rest is just rationalization.

So it reminded me of things I read while my daughter and her husband were considering options for adoption. They ultimately decided on a local, open adoption to give their child the chance to have a relationship with the birth parents. Other people choose international adoption because they don't want any "interference" from the birth parents. But there is a large and growing adoptee movement that feels closed adoptions are unfair to the children -- that they should have the chance to connect in some way with their biological parents.

The issues you bring up about adoption are real and entirely valid. I'm not doubting their legitimacy at all, or the legitimacy of a child of divorced parents feeling abandoned by an absent father. I just don't think that's why this woman has come to her particular view of same-sex parenting. There's nothing about the open adoption movement that opposes or even is in tension with same-sex marriage.

Edit: To be clear, I don't have proof, it's just an educated guess about the kinds of reasons people tend to switch sides on this issue.

but they had a longer interview with her.

As it happens, she had a father who abandoned her at the age of 2 or 3. So she did have a real hole in her heart. But her real issue is being the child of divorce and of an absentee parent, not being the daughter of gay mothers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3001703/Another-mom-never-replaced-father-lost-Woman-raised-lesbian-moms-comes-against-gay-marriage.html

Heather Barwick, a 31-year-old mother-of-four from South Carolina, says her mother left her father when she was 2 or 3 so that she could move in with the woman she loved.

SNIP

Barwick recalls growing up in a very liberal and open-minded suburb surrounded by a 'tight-knit community of gay and lesbian friends' and says her mother's partner 'treated me as if I was her own daughter'.

She also admits that her biological father 'wasn't a great guy,' and 'didn't bother coming around anymore.'

SNIP

Speaking to Christian publication World, Barwick said she only found healing for her 'father wound' after she began attending church with her future husband.

The South Carolina woman’s change of stance on same-sex marriage ocurred after she came to terms with what she deems the “father wound” and started going to church with her husband.

During an interview with World, a Christian publication, Heather Barwick said, “It really wasn’t until I came to Christ that I felt that burden lifted off of me. And I’m not bitter. I’m not angry. I forgive my dad.”

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1938204/heather-barwick-woman-raised-by-two-moms-comes-out-against-gay-marriage/#AXzAfGhsgLW1bUKE.99